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14-01-2020, 18:28   #16
Idbatterim
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Op for a far better understanding of why government wants and fully supports and encourages expensive property, just look at this! If you have an interest in this, this is going to fill in the dots for you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL3n59wC8kk

humans are selfish by nature, that FG canvasser knocking to your door? likely a homeowner. Any politician running for election, likely a home owner. Those in planning? homeowners. You see where I am going with this... You dont need to be a landlord to want rising prices...
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14-01-2020, 18:33   #17
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Because there is no incentive to be a landlord.

Rental income - €1800
Tax - up to €850
Mortgage payment - More than €850


Where's the incentive. Capital appreciation over 20 years isn't guaranteed.

Your tenant can choose to not pay rent for 2 years while you go through the PRTB process.


Stone mad to be a landlord in Ireland (Dublin at least)
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14-01-2020, 18:37   #18
Shelga
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I suppose I'm not really asking why Berlin or Birmingham or wherever is so cheap, but rather, why is Dublin so expensive, and who is to blame, if anyone.

I get that salaries are high in Dublin and the economy is good, but no one who is of sound mind can think €1900 for a 2 bed in Santry is good value: https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartment...ublin-1993046/

So what are the many factors that contribute to why supply is so appalling? The economy has been growing for roughly 5/6 years now, so why is it so slow to catch up?
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14-01-2020, 18:40   #19
InstaSte
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Originally Posted by Shelga View Post
I suppose I'm not really asking why Berlin or Birmingham or wherever is so cheap, but rather, why is Dublin so expensive, and who is to blame, if anyone.

I get that salaries are high in Dublin and the economy is good, but no one who is of sound mind can think €1680 for a 2 bed in Santry is good value: https://www.daft.ie/21992011

So what are the many factors that contribute to why supply is so appalling? The economy has been growing for roughly 5/6 years now, so why is it so slow to catch up?
See above.

Landlords are selling, not buying.

Tenants have too many protections.
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14-01-2020, 18:44   #20
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The real issues are why is everything centered around Dublin.
There are too many factories in Dublin 15 that could be more evenly distributed the country town. I think its been mentioned before that towns like Longford, Tipperary, Nenagh Mitchelstown and border towns are dying for industry and suffering from outward migration.
Urbanisation is a global trend. Nothing you can do to change that. The only solution is to make the best of the situation by improving infrastructure and maybe incentivising retirees to move out of Dublin to make room for workers.
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14-01-2020, 19:01   #21
Idbatterim
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Originally Posted by Shelga View Post
I suppose I'm not really asking why Berlin or Birmingham or wherever is so cheap, but rather, why is Dublin so expensive, and who is to blame, if anyone.

I get that salaries are high in Dublin and the economy is good, but no one who is of sound mind can think €1900 for a 2 bed in Santry is good value: https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartment...ublin-1993046/

So what are the many factors that contribute to why supply is so appalling? The economy has been growing for roughly 5/6 years now, so why is it so slow to catch up?
moron planners would be top of the chain of blame! I take it youve seen the docklands? endless 5/6 floor lego blocks. Yet people commute to the masses of offices there, on the appalling transport system here from miles out, often sharing family homes. Moronic "planning" system is the prime culprit. Arbitrary height limits!
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14-01-2020, 19:03   #22
J_1980
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But Berlin is a capital city? And rent is probably half that of Dublin.
Berlin has no jobs. No West German company built their headquarters in the enemy’s land and East Germany had no real white collar jobs. Might even be the only european capital city that is a net receiver in the national accounts.

Why are Irish rents high?
Socialism always makes everything expensive. Builders/tradies don’t come as there’s nothing left after tax, the bottom 10% of society get generously alimented, crowding out the working class above them etc.
I’m German, in East Germany (when we visited relatives) everyone was equal but anything slightly in demand was unaffordable.


And it doesn’t matter who comes into power in next election, Irish construction industry is pretty much at capacity anyway. If the left/ FF etc. wins then Wayne and Waynetta with their 5 kids benefit - not anyone working 9-5. Expect more emigration of key staff (trades, doctors, nurses). Seen it all before in East Germany, they built the wall and shot all trying to emigrate. Luckily this won’t happen here. Boris will happily snap up the Irish nurses to fill his new hospitals
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14-01-2020, 19:06   #23
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Originally Posted by skooterblue2 View Post
The real issues are why is everything centered around Dublin.
There are too many factories in Dublin 15 that could be more evenly distributed the country town. I think its been mentioned before that towns like Longford, Tipperary, Nenagh Mitchelstown and border towns are dying for industry and suffering from outward migration.

This is precisely it. For everything to be centre around one city, in a country this size, is just abysmal long-term planning, stretching back decades.

c.30% of Irish population lives in Dublin.

For comparisons;

London c.14%
Oslo c.14%
Madrid c.14%
Copenhagen c.12%
Helsinki c.12%
Amsterdam c.10%
Brussels c.10%
Lisbon c.5%
Berlin c.5%
Paris c.3%
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14-01-2020, 19:07   #24
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The price for property in Dublin is very normal for that size and economy level, while the renting is absolutely to high.
The main factor for the very high rents is due to the very low supplies of residential property over the past 10 years (due to residential construction crisis), especially for such a young city with growing population and booming economy.
To make things worse, private landlords are highly taxed, typically 50-52% on the profit, I don’t know any other country with that high taxation for private landlords. And more than that property should be supplied furnished, whereas in many European countries it’s common to rent unfurnished (at least Denmark and Germany from my own experience).
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14-01-2020, 19:12   #25
Browney7
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Originally Posted by InstaSte View Post
Because there is no incentive to be a landlord.

Rental income - €1800
Tax - up to €850
Mortgage payment - More than €850


Where's the incentive. Capital appreciation over 20 years isn't guaranteed.

Your tenant can choose to not pay rent for 2 years while you go through the PRTB process.


Stone mad to be a landlord in Ireland (Dublin at least)
Aren't you ignoring the pay down of the mortgage capital here?
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14-01-2020, 19:15   #26
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Originally Posted by InstaSte View Post
Because there is no incentive to be a landlord.

Rental income - €1800
Tax - up to €850
Mortgage payment - More than €850


Where's the incentive. Capital appreciation over 20 years isn't guaranteed.

Your tenant can choose to not pay rent for 2 years while you go through the PRTB process.


Stone mad to be a landlord in Ireland (Dublin at least)

Why should there be an incentive for speculative amateur landlords.

Do you think that you should be somehow given a risk-free guaranteed return to own an asset in 30 years which will be paid back by some tenant? There are too many people out there thinking that they should be entitled to go into the bank, spend a few hours filling out a few forms, buy a house, forget about it for 30 years and then come back to sell it and keep the proceeds after some gobshite paid off their mortgage for them.

Become a landlord by all means if you have the skills, time, effort and risk management ability to make it work.


I'll agree that tenant have too many protections - in the case of those that won't pay or overhold or damage the property. But those are the rules of the game. If you can't manage by those rules in worst case scenario, then put your money elsewhere
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14-01-2020, 19:30   #27
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Originally Posted by Shelga View Post
I suppose I'm not really asking why Berlin or Birmingham or wherever is so cheap, but rather, why is Dublin so expensive, and who is to blame, if anyone.

I get that salaries are high in Dublin and the economy is good, but no one who is of sound mind can think €1900 for a 2 bed in Santry is good value: https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartment...ublin-1993046/

So what are the many factors that contribute to why supply is so appalling? The economy has been growing for roughly 5/6 years now, so why is it so slow to catch up?
You don't seem to understand how supply and demand works.

There are far more people looking for housing than there is housing.

It's literally that simple.

People don't rent because they think it's good value, they rent because they need somewhere to lie so they can go to work. There are loads of cabin crew and airport workers living in that area - they want a nice enough place which is handy for getting to the airport, and that's what the going rate is.
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14-01-2020, 19:40   #28
Dav010
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Why should there be an incentive for speculative amateur landlords.

Do you think that you should be somehow given a risk-free guaranteed return to own an asset in 30 years which will be paid back by some tenant? There are too many people out there thinking that they should be entitled to go into the bank, spend a few hours filling out a few forms, buy a house, forget about it for 30 years and then come back to sell it and keep the proceeds after some gobshite paid off their mortgage for them.

Become a landlord by all means if you have the skills, time, effort and risk management ability to make it work.


I'll agree that tenant have too many protections - in the case of those that won't pay or overhold or damage the property. But those are the rules of the game. If you can't manage by those rules in worst case scenario, then put your money elsewhere
Simple really, without a financial incentive to invest, there is no investment in rental property. REITS may be interested in investing in large cities, they certainly are not outside them.

I must admit, I now get a kick when I see posts like yours decrying “amateur landlords” in derogatory tones, you get what you deserve when large investment funds buy out complete developments before they are finished so they can rent at the highest market price, and automatically increase year on year. Then take their profits out of the country. That’ll show those pesky small time amateur landlords, oh hold on, that means you pay higher rents. Nice.

But you are correct in one sense, the incentives like high yields and capital appreciation should not be guaranteed, but they need to be a good possibility if you want to encourage investment and increase availability. Strange how at a time when rents are at an all time high, property values have increased, yet investors are leaving, go figure.
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14-01-2020, 20:01   #29
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In fairness, history has shown that incentives just drive up site and asset prices. Existing landlords benefit but the game stays the same for new entrants
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14-01-2020, 20:14   #30
hmmm
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So what are the many factors that contribute to why supply is so appalling? The economy has been growing for roughly 5/6 years now, so why is it so slow to catch up?
We're seeing lots of supply coming along with big build-to-rent developments.

These are facing significant opposition however for reasons, much of it manufactured outrage by left-wing parties.

Bypassing the NIMBY brigade with ABP applications for large developments is a great and welcome development.
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