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Estate agents

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    #122
    jimwallace197
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Have you evidence that proves my opinions misinformed?

    The only data I've ever seen on the industry was US based and indicated that realtors would tend to achieve a higher selling price when selling their own properties (Freakonomics).

    How much value does an estate agent quantifiably bring to the table? And does this value exceed their commission?

    I dont need to prove anything, this is not a court of law, I'm sure people can make up their minds from the sources you use for your information. Freakonomics based on a completely different country and market.

    Im not here to answer your questions but Ill say this, professional photography, access to all major property website platforms including their own, viewings around the clock, experienced negotiators, signage, an understanding of the market and when to go with a particular offer or hold firm, access to a buyer database, the list goes on.

    Ignorance is bliss though as they say and if you think you can do a better job yourself, all power to you but if you are going to make the claim people can do a better job themselves, why dont you provide some proper evidence?? A decent insight into the property price register should provide this, I wonder can you provide


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    #123
    devlinio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 172 ✭✭devlinio


    I was doing some research last week as my parents are looking to sell a rental property.

    Durkin Property - 1%
    Noel Kelly - 1% - 1.25%
    DNG - 1%
    Gallagher Quigley - 1.25% + Vat
    Brophy Estates 1% + Vat
    Laplin Estates 1% + Vat

    Marketing fees between 0 - 500


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    #124
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    jimwallace197 wrote: »
    I dont need to prove anything, this is not a court of law, I'm sure people can make up their minds from the sources you use for your information. Freakonomics based on a completely different country and market.

    Im not here to answer your questions but Ill say this, professional photography, access to all major property website platforms including their own, viewings around the clock, experienced negotiators, signage, an understanding of the market and when to go with a particular offer or hold firm, access to a buyer database, the list goes on.

    Ignorance is bliss though as they say and if you think you can do a better job yourself, all power to you but if you are going to make the claim people can do a better job themselves, why dont you provide some proper evidence?? A decent insight into the property price register should provide this, I wonder can you provide
    For the sake of your clients I hope your negotiation tactics (and manners) are better than your debating skills. "I don't have to prove anything... YOU prove it"

    Also, for someone putting themselves forth as the knowledgeable professional here, you seem rather ignorant of the Property Price Register. The sum total of data points available within the register are as follows:

    Date of Sale (dd/mm/yyyy)
    Address
    Postal Code
    County
    Price (€)
    Not Full Market Price
    VAT Exclusive
    Description of Property
    Property Size Description

    There is no data point within that dataset that identifies whether a property was sold by the owner or on their behalf by an agent taking a cut.
    Even were there, there aren't any data points that identify the number of bedrooms, square footage, aspect, whether it's freehold or leasehold etc. making like for like comparison of the properties next to impossible to carry out at a quantitative level.

    You list very soft "benefits" of using an agent (you do realise that anyone can hire a professional photographer and put up some signage? That Daft would be the first port of call for most buyers and access to MyHome and that your Buyers Database* would be of limited value to most sellers?).

    Ultimately people hire Estate Agents for two reasons: they don't want to deal with the hassle of selling and because they're told by people like you that an EA will get them a higher price for their house.

    As they charge extremely high fees for this service, it's a simple enough question I've put in this thread: how much higher a price can an agent get than someone selling their own property.

    If that difference is higher amount than the cost of their fees, Estate Agents are a good value proposition for a seller. If, as I suspect, it's not, the value proposition becomes a matter of the difference between that higher amount (if the amount is, indeed, higher) and the value the seller places on the hassle they're saving them.

    (* By the way, I do hope you've studied up on your GDPR obligations if you're maintaining such a database. It can be easy fall foul of, particularly when data isn't your forté)


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    #125
    jimwallace197
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Sleepy wrote: »
    For the sake of your clients I hope your negotiation tactics (and manners) are better than your debating skills. "I don't have to prove anything... YOU prove it"

    Also, for someone putting themselves forth as the knowledgeable professional here, you seem rather ignorant of the Property Price Register. The sum total of data points available within the register are as follows:

    Date of Sale (dd/mm/yyyy)
    Address
    Postal Code
    County
    Price (€)
    Not Full Market Price
    VAT Exclusive
    Description of Property
    Property Size Description

    There is no data point within that dataset that identifies whether a property was sold by the owner or on their behalf by an agent taking a cut.
    Even were there, there aren't any data points that identify the number of bedrooms, square footage, aspect, whether it's freehold or leasehold etc. making like for like comparison of the properties next to impossible to carry out at a quantitative level.

    You list very soft "benefits" of using an agent (you do realise that anyone can hire a professional photographer and put up some signage? That Daft would be the first port of call for most buyers and access to MyHome and that your Buyers Database* would be of limited value to most sellers?).

    Ultimately people hire Estate Agents for two reasons: they don't want to deal with the hassle of selling and because they're told by people like you that an EA will get them a higher price for their house.

    As they charge extremely high fees for this service, it's a simple enough question I've put in this thread: how much higher a price can an agent get than someone selling their own property.

    If that difference is higher amount than the cost of their fees, Estate Agents are a good value proposition for a seller. If, as I suspect, it's not, the value proposition becomes a matter of the difference between that higher amount (if the amount is, indeed, higher) and the value the seller places on the hassle they're saving them.

    (* By the way, I do hope you've studied up on your GDPR obligations if you're maintaining such a database. It can be easy fall foul of, particularly when data isn't your forté)

    First of all, I didnt put myself forward as the knowledgeable professional here. You assumed that, like you have been making a lot of other misguided assumptions.

    Yes, thats the property price register that you have access to, and of course you are ignorant of other ways of getting information that determine who sold what and for how much fully respective of GDPR legislation.

    Yes, all of that would be of limited value to people selling themselves, do you know how much all of this would cost especially if you are using it as a once off service? Not cheap I can tell you.

    Again, making assumptions as to why people use EA'S, do you work in the industry, do you have any real idea why people use agents apart from your own limited experience?? Unlikely.

    Why don't you give it a shot yourself since you seem to know so much and think its such an easy job. Ireland has still one of the highest rates of using an estate agent in Europe. Go and get qualified, get some experience, then come back to me then. Otherwise, pipe down & wind your neck in

    Maybe stick to working in a pub & listening to your ignorant pub talk, seems like that line of work would suit you better.

    P.S. I know all about the GDPR obligations, another thing maybe you could do with educating yourself on.


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    #126
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Sleepy wrote: »
    For the sake of your clients I hope your negotiation tactics (and manners) are better than your debating skills. "I don't have to prove anything... YOU prove it"

    Also, for someone putting themselves forth as the knowledgeable professional here, you seem rather ignorant of the Property Price Register. The sum total of data points available within the register are as follows:

    Date of Sale (dd/mm/yyyy)
    Address
    Postal Code
    County
    Price (€)
    Not Full Market Price
    VAT Exclusive
    Description of Property
    Property Size Description

    There is no data point within that dataset that identifies whether a property was sold by the owner or on their behalf by an agent taking a cut.
    Even were there, there aren't any data points that identify the number of bedrooms, square footage, aspect, whether it's freehold or leasehold etc. making like for like comparison of the properties next to impossible to carry out at a quantitative level.

    You list very soft "benefits" of using an agent (you do realise that anyone can hire a professional photographer and put up some signage? That Daft would be the first port of call for most buyers and access to MyHome and that your Buyers Database* would be of limited value to most sellers?).

    Ultimately people hire Estate Agents for two reasons: they don't want to deal with the hassle of selling and because they're told by people like you that an EA will get them a higher price for their house.

    As they charge extremely high fees for this service, it's a simple enough question I've put in this thread: how much higher a price can an agent get than someone selling their own property.

    If that difference is higher amount than the cost of their fees, Estate Agents are a good value proposition for a seller. If, as I suspect, it's not, the value proposition becomes a matter of the difference between that higher amount (if the amount is, indeed, higher) and the value the seller places on the hassle they're saving them.

    (* By the way, I do hope you've studied up on your GDPR obligations if you're maintaining such a database. It can be easy fall foul of, particularly when data isn't your forté)

    Your basic assertion is "why should the sales profession exist", it's nonsensical, some people are better at creating, some better at selling, a good EA will most likely get a better price for a property than you will for a number of different reasons.

    If I was buying a house, I'd much prefer to deal with the vendor directly, as I believe I'd get it at a better price than if they were using an EA (better being 5% or >).


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    #127
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    to share my experience:

    Be very careful which agent you choose.

    I recently sold my house with a well known estate agent

    The agent took a deposit from our buyer, paid their own fees out of this amount after house sold, and now owe us a cheque for the balance. The house has been sold almost a month. We are ringing them every day and being given the runaround.

    Ask how they handle client moneys. Make sure they are registered with relevant professional bodies.


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    #128
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    to share my experience:

    Be very careful which agent you choose.

    I recently sold my house with a well known estate agent

    The agent took a deposit from our buyer, paid their own fees out of this amount after house sold, and now owe us a cheque for the balance. The house has been sold almost a month. We are ringing them every day and being given the runaround.

    Ask how they handle client moneys. Make sure they are registered with relevant professional bodies.

    Sorry to hear that. Is it worth checking with your solicitor? When my sister sold her house auctioneer transferred the balance to the solicitor who transferred it to her. Solicitor did a cash account and gave a copy of auctioneers bill.


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    #129
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    Dolbhad wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that. Is it worth checking with your solicitor? When my sister sold her house auctioneer transferred the balance to the solicitor who transferred it to her. Solicitor did a cash account and gave a copy of auctioneers bill.

    Thanks, yes its very upsetting... I am so surprised actually, they are literally the second biggest (if not biggest?) agency in the state so I imagined they would be reasonably professional to deal with

    Our solicitor actually instructed them to remit directly to us, so we know its not sitting in his office unfortunately

    It might be time to get him to write them a letter... the last thing we want to have to do srsly but hard to see what other recourse, they refuse to speak to us about it.... ugh


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    #130
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    Sold almost a month, Easter break in the middle, accounts have to be done. These things take time.

    If they sold the house and got a great price it's a bit sad to not go and recommend them over this IMO.

    The money's would be in their client account, so no worries of them doing anything else with it.


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    #131
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭snowcat


    In this day and age Estate agents are not really relevant. You can easily do an estate agents job yourself and save thousands. I dont understand people trusting the sale of one of their biggest assets to an effectively used car salesman. They dont have a clue about your property and are only interested in a sale and not necessarily at the best price. They only make 1k on an extra 100k sale price! Sell it yourself and enjoy the money.


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    #132
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    Daniel Quick Diner wrote: »
    Sold almost a month, Easter break in the middle, accounts have to be done. These things take time.

    If they sold the house and got a great price it's a bit sad to not go and recommend them over this IMO.

    The money's would be in their client account, so no worries of them doing anything else with it.

    Yes, I do appreciate that.
    However it was they themselves who advised us we could come and collect a cheque from their office on a certain day, ten days or so after the sale. When we went to collect it - no cheque, and no idea when it was coming or what the hold up was. Phone back next week, still no information. We persisted, and were advised cheque was being expedited, definitely ready first thing this week... today they are saying they don't have any cheques, invoices, anything relating to our sale, so and so is on holiday, nobody is in accounts to speak to us directly, it could be another week, two weeks... its very frustrating...


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    #133
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    Can I ask, do Estate Agents have deals with private investors as in get commission from them, I am at present negotiating sale of house, EA was pushing selling to Private Investor off the open market, I just wonder why as I imagine they would get a better price/higher commission by selling to open market? Appeal of Private Investor would be a quicker sale but am I missing something here?


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    #134
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Calltocall wrote: »
    Can I ask, do Estate Agents have deals with private investors as in get commission from them, I am at present negotiating sale of house, EA was pushing selling to Private Investor off the open market, I just wonder why as I imagine they would get a better price/higher commission by selling to open market? Appeal of Private Investor would be a quicker sale but am I missing something here?
    ...the smell of a large rat. One way or another, it'll cost you.


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    #135
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    recedite wrote: »
    ...the smell of a large rat. One way or another, it'll cost you.

    Thanks for reply, can I ask what would the rat be ,what would they gain by pushing the sale to Private Investor, the theoretical quick sale suits me and want rid asap but I feel I’m missing something here


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    #136
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    Calltocall wrote: »
    Can I ask, do Estate Agents have deals with private investors as in get commission from them, I am at present negotiating sale of house, EA was pushing selling to Private Investor off the open market, I just wonder why as I imagine they would get a better price/higher commission by selling to open market? Appeal of Private Investor would be a quicker sale but am I missing something here?

    Most agents will have good buyers on their books. Wealthy investors trust agents to find them good rental properties too. They will still push to get the market value, as it's not in their interest in any which way to sell at a discount to market value. It'll only depreciate other properties in the area they are selling in.

    It's great for all parties involved and is ideal for a seller looking for a quick sale.

    Far less risk, no banks, no chains, win win.

    All that said, if you are not in a rush then it obviously makes sense to go on the open market, as said investor may be there if needed in the end.


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    #137
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Calltocall wrote: »
    Thanks for reply, can I ask what would the rat be ,what would they gain by pushing the sale to Private Investor, the theoretical quick sale suits me and want rid asap but I feel I’m missing something here
    Here's some contrasting opinions from earlier in the thread. You decide...
    recedite wrote: »
    Maybe the EA has a preferred buyer. Sometimes a developer or investor who is an old mate of the EA buys it. Then the EA gets the rental deal, or gets to sell it again later. Who knows what backhanders go on. Maybe none.
    Dav010 wrote: »
    Have you any evidence of this? Even a scintilla. How many EAs do this? This really is silly conspiracy stuff, capped off with the obligatory “who knows”, not you apparently.
    I’m sure there are bad EAs, there are bad people in every trade/profession, but to apply sweeping statements of dishonesty to a whole sector, is just well, moronic.


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    #138
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Calltocall wrote: »
    Can I ask, do Estate Agents have deals with private investors as in get commission from them, I am at present negotiating sale of house, EA was pushing selling to Private Investor off the open market, I just wonder why as I imagine they would get a better price/higher commission by selling to open market? Appeal of Private Investor would be a quicker sale but am I missing something here?

    Did you ask the EA?


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    #139
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    Graham wrote: »
    Did you ask the EA?

    No, not yet, I trusted his word that it was the best way to go but on thinking further I’ve decided to inform myself better by getting opinions from here.


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    #140
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ask.

    Nobody here is going to be able to tell you what's in the EAs mind/black-book.


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    #141
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Graham wrote: »
    Ask.

    Nobody here is going to be able to tell you what's in the EAs mind/black-book.
    Will the EA be able to explain how his buddy is going to bid the top price without ever competing on the open market?


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    #142
    Calltocall
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    Graham wrote: »
    Ask.

    Nobody here is going to be able to tell you what's in the EAs mind/black-book.

    There’s no harm in getting opinions from people that don’t have a horse in the race, I’ve found boards a great resource over the years and I’m entitled to do that, if there was something amiss I don’t think he would tell me straight up.


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    #143
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    recedite wrote: »
    Will the EA be able to explain how his buddy is going to bid the top price without ever competing on the open market?

    The 'nobody here' part includes me:
    Nobody here is going to be able to tell you what's in the EAs mind/black-book.

    Poster didn't mention the property was going to be sold to his buddy. Do you have additional info that we're nor privy to?


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    #144
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Graham wrote: »
    Did you ask the EA?

    Sell the house yourself! If the EA wants to sell it as sell give him commision to get a better price. DO NOT give him negotiating power..except with you. If he is any good he should be able to get a better price then you, then he is worth his money.


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    #145
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    There has to be a few agents in here getting a good laugh.


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    #146
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Calltocall wrote: »
    There’s no harm getting opinions from people that don’t have a horse in the race, I’ve found boards a great resource over the years and I’m entitled to do that, if there was something amiss I don’t think he would tell me straight up.

    Absolutely, ask away. The point I perhaps made badly is, the obvious person to ask is the EA.


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    #147
    az2wp0sye65487
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭az2wp0sye65487


    snowcat wrote: »
    I generally (but not always) have had negative experiences with agents

    I wonder what's the common denominator...


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    #148
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Never trust an EA


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    #149
    Mumm_ra
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Mumm_ra


    Look EA’s provide little or no value. I recently sold and bought and found them of little value. If I was going it again I’d do it myself with help if something like Moovingo.

    When I was buying the EA caught wind that I was trying to do a deal with the seller and threatened not to deal with us. I had arranged to meet the seller and had agreed with the wife we would offer them x to take it off the market. The EA caught wind and I had to go through him - it ended up 10k cheaper and the seller paid 5k fees - enough said


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    #150
    q85dw7osi4lebg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭q85dw7osi4lebg


    Have to say, when I was browsing DAFT as a buyer, where 95% of properties are advertised by an agent, I almost always skip past the for sale by owner ones.

    Bad descriptions
    Outrageously unrealistic values (they haven't had the reality check of an agent telling them they do not in fact own the best house in the neighbourhood)
    Terrible photos, no plans.
    Don't want to pay an agent so what else have they skimped on? etc..

    Time is money, if you are unemployed / off work then I can see how you have time on your hands for attempting to sell it yourself. But good luck chasing contracts / solicitors from the other side, without the use of an agent.


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    #151
    happyfriday74
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭happyfriday74


    When I was buying the EA caught wind that I was trying to do a deal with the seller and threatened not to deal with us. I had arranged to meet the seller and had agreed with the wife we would offer them x to take it off the market. The EA caught wind and I had to go through him - it ended up 10k cheaper and the seller paid 5k fees - enough said

    I dont blame him threatening not to deal with you. He has a signed contract with the seller and the seller is going behind his back.


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