Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Wife never interested..... exes

2

Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Batgurl wrote: »
    3 pregnancies, childbirths and what sounds like breast cancer and a mastectomy? And you wonder why she doesn’t want sex like a women in her 20’s?

    It always amazes men how men still don’t get how that woman’s body changes after kids and how they expect everything to be the same. Add in a mastectomy and the poor woman probably hates her body and sex is the last thing on her mind when she feels like ****.

    Therapy is a good recommendation OP. You should also make an effort to make her feel desirable. Instead of making her feel crap for not making you feel pleasure regularly enough.

    Far to much disdain in this post. They haven't had sex in a year. Dont be throwing all the blame on the man.


  • #33
    Clare Kat
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Clare Kat


    Brian JC wrote: »
    Really want advice from females here.

    My wife and I are together 10 years and are in late 30s. We have 3 children. We have a happy marriage and are nearly always in the same page.

    When we first met she was in a relationship, but we struck up a good friendship. 4-5 years later we got together (I always fancied her). She had a number boyfriends over that time and I know from what she told me that she had regular sex with one or two of them. She dumped me and we got back together 6 months later. In that time she was with someone else and I know they had regular sex as well.

    The only times we’ve ever had regular sex was for pregnancies.

    When I try it on I always get rejected. I would say we have sex every couple of months at an absolute maximum..,, now it’s been a full year

    Since we got back together she has had a mastectomy and i’ve had bereavements in my immediate family - we’ve had a lot to deal with.

    I brought it up recently (have tried to over the years, but ends in a row or false promises of change) that we never do it and that makes me feel rejected and like a failure of a man. She has tried to reassure me, but I know she had no interest in anything resembling weekly/fortnightly sex.

    I know that she had more sex with exes and I told her I feel that in a physical sense she preferred then to me..... she was furious and said it is wrong to bring up the past.

    Am I wrong to feel such rejection and am I wrong to feel that she fancied them more?? Am I wrong to even bring it up?

    Brian, just a thought. You say that since you got back together your wife has had a mastectomy. Depending on the type of breast cancer and also the treatments she received, libido can be greatly affected. Her hormones are probably all over the shop never mind everything else. While I realize you had infrequent sex prior, this could definitely be a contributing factor. Would she attend a GP with you so you both could address this as she may be resistant to therapy? It’s worth a shot as you don’t happy at all and the lack of intimacy will eventually cause huge resentment.


  • #34
    Yellow pack crisps
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Yellow pack crisps


    Having a mastectomy is tough and brings all sorts of physical and mental problems, has she dealt with this in any way? You don’t say how long ago this was? How often she had sex with exes is not really relevant, the fact is , is that your marriage lacks intimacy is. You seem to have gotten it into your head that she has used you as sperm donor, that’s pretty unhealthy and will have you being very resentful to her, you might not even realise that. In return she has to do the work also to rectify your relationship before it leads to an end. You both need a therapist whether together or separately only you can decide that. Whether people like it or not, no sex in a marriage eventually leads down a dark path and affects both parties life in lots of intricate ways. It’s part of a healthy relationship.


  • #35
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭blue note


    I wouldn't agree at all with the people saying that she settled for him. It's possible if course. But also possible that she just got bored of sex with him.

    Getting women aroused is different to men more often than not. To be honest, if I see a bit of cleavage from my wife I'm ready to go. Whereas women tend to require more excitement. It's often said that when the woman is always turning the man down for sex, it's not that her desire for sexual fulfilment has disappeared. The problem is that the same sex she's used to isn't doing anything for her.

    So when relationships are new, having sex with a new person is excitement in itself. She's having more sex because she's enjoying it. A few years down the line it isn't having the same effect, so she gives up.

    There's plenty of ways to spice up the sex - toys, costumes, outdoors, role play, taping it. Basically anything you're both happy to try. But if the OP has brought it up with her and she's gone on the offensive with him and turned it back on him, or promised to try but done nothing it's a problem. Maybe she'd enjoy some spanking, but that needs to come from her. He can't just start hitting her some day and hope for the best. He can suggest things to try, but if she's not receptive he can't do much about it.

    Being honest, he's brought it up as a major issue for him and she's ignoring it. She's being selfish. I'd be ashamed of myself if my wife came to me with something she was really upset about and I chose to ignore it because I didn't want to deal with.


  • #36
    H8GHOTI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭H8GHOTI


    Brian JC wrote: »
    ...She dumped me and we got back together 6 months later. In that time she was with someone else and I know they had regular sex as well...

    How long were you together before this breakup? What was the reason for the split?

    This 6 month thing doesn’t sound good. It’s a short time, to break up, find someone new, break up with the new guy and get back with you. Any chance she was having an affair? Did she dump him to get back with you because she regretted breaking up? Or she got dumped, so she was alone and decided why not give it another shot with you?

    So before the split, sex was infrequent? During this 6 months her sex drive suddenly appeared again and then disappeared once ye got back together? Ya you are right to be concerned and feel bad about it.

    By the way, how do you know that she was having regular sex during this time? Did she tell you and if yes, why?


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    Brian JC wrote: »
    Really want advice from females here.

    My wife and I are together 10 years and are in late 30s. We have 3 children. We have a happy marriage and are nearly always in the same page.

    When we first met she was in a relationship, but we struck up a good friendship. 4-5 years later we got together (I always fancied her). She had a number boyfriends over that time and I know from what she told me that she had regular sex with one or two of them. She dumped me and we got back together 6 months later. In that time she was with someone else and I know they had regular sex as well.

    The only times we’ve ever had regular sex was for pregnancies.

    When I try it on I always get rejected. I would say we have sex every couple of months at an absolute maximum..,, now it’s been a full year

    Since we got back together she has had a mastectomy and i’ve had bereavements in my immediate family - we’ve had a lot to deal with.

    I brought it up recently (have tried to over the years, but ends in a row or false promises of change) that we never do it and that makes me feel rejected and like a failure of a man. She has tried to reassure me, but I know she had no interest in anything resembling weekly/fortnightly sex.

    I know that she had more sex with exes and I told her I feel that in a physical sense she preferred then to me..... she was furious and said it is wrong to bring up the past.

    Am I wrong to feel such rejection and am I wrong to feel that she fancied them more?? Am I wrong to even bring it up?

    No you're not wrong to feel rejection

    No you're not wrong to feel that she fancied them more

    No you're not wrong to even bring it up


    Intimacy is important, it is part of a relationship, without it you will feel alone


  • #38
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    No ,OP, you're not wrong to bring up the issue. Having sex regularly with your partner is ,well, regular.
    From your post I pick up a resentment at being a baby maker and not much else in the bed department, also imo ,a fair enough one.
    Though I don't think it would be wise to bring it up outside of a session with a marriage counselor.
    There's a lot of stuff to talk through. The sex , your wife's cancer or fear of it ( I'm guessing), your feelings in all of this.
    Not something you'd want to do without a trained person to help you.


  • #39
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Female here.
    No you're not wrong to feel rejected and you're absolutely within your right to bring it up.
    I don't know how you worded the conversation about her past sexual experiences, maybe she thought you were being spiteful, but definitely leaving that aside, you need to address the lack of physical contact and she should explain herself and either agree to seek help or support or else admit that maybe she doesn't love you in the romantic way.
    You've been very patient, it's time for her to bite the bullet now and tell you where you stand.

    To thine own self be true



  • #40
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    a serious chat needed, you sound more like her sperm donor than her life partner but 3 kids and a mastectomy later it's gonna be hard to turn that around.


  • #41
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    I find it strange that her sex life with previous partners is something that has come up apparently multiple times between ye. Does she tell you this stuff of her own accord or is it something you've questioned her about?

    If she is content not having a sex life with you it makes no sense that she'd voluntarily be telling you she enjoyed it with others. Is she trying to humiliate you? If on the other hand you know because you question her, then theres a lot more to the problem than just her lack of sex drive.

    Based on what you've said, it does seem to me that she chose you to be a father to her kids and may not have ever been attracted to you. But knowing why her intimate past is a topic up for discussion would be telling.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    Women never understand this, nor do men who have never been through it. “Go and have a w@nk..” is what i got before.. No one gets that what you’re missing is basic human connection and the feeling of being wanted, being desired and that someone loves you.

    I don’t have the Silver bullet answer OP, but 3 years of therapy helped us. I completely understand where you’re coming from. Don’t let people make you think you’re being selfish.


  • #43
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Brian JC wrote: »
    Really want advice from females here.

    My wife and I are together 10 years and are in late 30s. We have 3 children. We have a happy marriage and are nearly always in the same page.

    When we first met she was in a relationship, but we struck up a good friendship. 4-5 years later we got together (I always fancied her). She had a number boyfriends over that time and I know from what she told me that she had regular sex with one or two of them. She dumped me and we got back together 6 months later. In that time she was with someone else and I know they had regular sex as well.

    The only times we’ve ever had regular sex was for pregnancies.

    When I try it on I always get rejected. I would say we have sex every couple of months at an absolute maximum..,, now it’s been a full year

    Since we got back together she has had a mastectomy and i’ve had bereavements in my immediate family - we’ve had a lot to deal with.

    I brought it up recently (have tried to over the years, but ends in a row or false promises of change) that we never do it and that makes me feel rejected and like a failure of a man. She has tried to reassure me, but I know she had no interest in anything resembling weekly/fortnightly sex.

    I know that she had more sex with exes and I told her I feel that in a physical sense she preferred then to me..... she was furious and said it is wrong to bring up the past.

    Am I wrong to feel such rejection and am I wrong to feel that she fancied them more?? Am I wrong to even bring it up?

    "Happy marriage and nearly always on the same page"

    Well clearly ye are not.

    After the first time she dumped you, and told you she was sleeping with others, you should of ran.

    Before the kids came along, did she have a career? Who pays the bills?

    Sounds like your seen as the provider, someone who'll pay the bills, provide sperm for babies and be a steady Eddie.

    Your comparison and need to discuss and mention her sex life with exs screams of insecurity.


  • #44
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    bitofabind wrote: »
    It's not a nice thing to hear, but I'm getting a sense that the woman chose the solid reliable guy to settle down and have a family with, and minimised the importance of sexual attraction. If sex was never a regular thing, and there's clear evidence that she's not asexual and had a healthy drive with other men, only has sex with her husband to get pregnant - it's a bit of a walks like a duck, quacks like a duck situation to me..

    This is the case OP. I would question just how attracted to you she actually is, she seemed to come to you as a last resort after 5 years of you pining after her. 5 years of her trying out other men and then finally making her way around to the last fella left waiting around? Then, when he finally got together, she isnt interested in sex and also she dumped you to try and make it work with someone else?

    Sounds like that guy wasnt as reliable as you and she made a conscious choice for Mr.Reliable to be her husband and the father of her kids, knowing you'd be delighted to be with her. So she returned to a guy she clearly had little to no sexual interest in.

    Can't see how this changes OP, you can't force someone to be attracted to you, and if you make sex a big deal here then she will start resenting you and the topic quick. In short, even if you get it, it's not going to be a pleasurable experience for either party. Cant see how counselling will help either tbh, if I go to counselling with someone I'm not physically attracted to, I'm still not going to be physically attracted to them after counselling.


  • #45
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    This is the case OP. I would question just how attracted to you she actually is, she seemed to come to you as a last resort after 5 years of you pining after her. 5 years of her trying out other men and then finally making her way around to the last fella left waiting around? Then, when he finally got together, she isnt interested in sex and also she dumped you to try and make it work with someone else?

    Sounds like that guy wasnt as reliable as you and she made a conscious choice for Mr.Reliable to be her husband and the father of her kids, knowing you'd be delighted to be with her. So she returned to a guy she clearly had little to no sexual interest in.

    Can't see how this changes OP, you can't force someone to be attracted to you, and if you make sex a big deal here then she will start resenting you and the topic quick. In short, even if you get it, it's not going to be a pleasurable experience for either party. Cant see how counselling will help either tbh, if I go to counselling with someone I'm not physically attracted to, I'm still not going to be physically attracted to them after counselling.

    We don’t know for sure that is the reason. Give counselling a shot but be prepared to leave if it does not work.

    A sexless marriage isn’t realistic for anyone to accept.

    Others mentioning the OP is insecure about exes. Of course he is, he’s hearing they got regular sex and he hasn’t. Of course that would play on your mind.


  • #46
    guitarhappy
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭guitarhappy


    Maybe she'd be just as happy if you got a little something going on the side. No need to mope around forever hoping to change her. Carpe Diem!


  • #47
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Counselling is only an option if both parties are open to it.

    From what the OP has said, it doesn't sound like this is a counselling agenda because regular sex has never been on the cards in this relationship from day 1.

    There should be no need to focus on how much sex other ex's got in the past Newman1982? How will this help the OP going forward?


  • #48
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Look I won't lie, as a woman, 3 kids, especially small ones, does not do anything for the sex life.Between the births and then the exhaustion from just getting through the day,it is very hard to feel any bit of enthusiasm for sex a lot of the time.

    Sounds like there were other problems first though OP. The exes should be long left behind at this point, particularly her sex life with them.In some ways, they should not even be discussed.The big elephant in the room of not having much sex even before the kids came though - that needs counselling.Something is going on there and it is probably something that is best brought out in therapy of some sort.


  • #49
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    Esse85 wrote: »
    Counselling is only an option if both parties are open to it.

    From what the OP has said, it doesn't sound like this is a counselling agenda because regular sex has never been on the cards in this relationship from day 1.

    There should be no need to focus on how much sex other ex's got in the past Newman1982? How will this help the OP going forward?

    It’s not going to help going forward. It is perfectly natural to wonder why others had it though and become insecure about it.

    Do you disagree? Do you think it’s not normal for this to become something you’d be insecure about?


  • #50
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭Esse85


    NewMan1982 wrote: »
    It’s not going to help going forward. It is perfectly natural to wonder why others had it though and become insecure about it.

    Do you disagree? Do you think it’s not normal for this to become something you’d be insecure about?

    The only comparisons that should be made are what was our sex life like when we first entered a relationship versus what's it like now? Obviously it'll have been more active pre kids etc.

    That is the important part.

    But to compare it to how often previous ex's had sex with your current partner serves nobody, it's a recipe for disaster, as this situation is proving.


  • #51
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Esse85 wrote: »
    But to compare it to how often previous ex's had sex with your current partner serves nobody, it's a recipe for disaster, as this situation is proving.
    Hard for the OP to get it out of their head though.


    For some bizarre reason, when they were still friends, his now-wife told him about how frequently she was having sex with her boyfriends and how much she liked it. He's not going to forget that, and when they became an item, the OP probably imagined that they'd be having much the same sex life.

    It may not be helpful in discussions (and I advised the OP not to mention it), but it's understandable for the OP to wonder why this woman who was once so openly enthusiastic about sex has never shown any similar enthusiasm for sex with him.

    It would probably be better for everybody if she'd never shared that particular piece of information with him.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    Esse85 wrote: »
    The only comparisons that should be made are what was our sex life like when we first entered a relationship versus what's it like now? Obviously it'll have been more active pre kids etc.

    That is the important part.

    But to compare it to how often previous ex's had sex with your current partner serves nobody, it's a recipe for disaster, as this situation is proving.

    A recipe for disaster only because it serves up some very uncomfortable truths.

    The point the OP made, was that their sex life was bad at the start too. Yet she had a seemingly thriving sex life with other partners.

    It would, and it should lead the OP to a few realisations about this woman's attraction towards him (spoiler alert: she isnt attracted to him, but he was a reliable, devoted person to build a family with).

    I do not understand why a persons sexual history is irrelevant yet in every other aspect of life, literally every one, we analyse past behaviour and events to give us information in the present day and future. But you cant do that with sexual history for some reason.


  • #53
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    A recipe for disaster only because it serves up some very uncomfortable truths.

    The point the OP made, was that their sex life was bad at the start too. Yet she had a seemingly thriving sex life with other partners.

    It would, and it should lead the OP to a few realisations about this woman's attraction towards him (spoiler alert: she isnt attracted to him, but he was a reliable, devoted person to build a family with).

    I do not understand why a persons sexual history is irrelevant yet in every other aspect of life, literally every one, we analyse past behaviour and events to give us information in the present day and future. But you cant do that with sexual history for some reason.

    Its 10 year old data.


  • #54
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Batgurl wrote: »
    3 pregnancies, childbirths and what sounds like breast cancer and a mastectomy? And you wonder why she doesn’t want sex like a women in her 20’s?

    It always amazes men how men still don’t get how that woman’s body changes after kids and how they expect everything to be the same. Add in a mastectomy and the poor woman probably hates her body and sex is the last thing on her mind when she feels like ****.

    Therapy is a good recommendation OP. You should also make an effort to make her feel desirable. Instead of making her feel crap for not making you feel pleasure regularly enough.

    A year though?


  • #55
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    I do not understand why a persons sexual history is irrelevant yet in every other aspect of life, literally every one, we analyse past behaviour and events to give us information in the present day and future. But you cant do that with sexual history for some reason.

    I don't think its irrelevant per say but I do think it's a bit unsavoury to bring up someone's sexual past as a topic for discussion in a relationship. I think many people would be uncomfortable talking about or listening to details of their/ their partners sex lives prior to the current relationship.

    For starters there are so many variables to render it meaningless. How can someone say "you shagged X a decade ago and liked it so why don't you shag me now."

    That's why I think it's pertinent how this knowledge of her sexual history came about. Did she gleefully tell him in which case you'd have to wonder why. Or did he wheedle it out of her in a bout of insecurity?


  • #56
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    The OP knows she was more sexually active in previous relationships.
    I’m sure he wishes he did not know that but he does.
    It is perfectly natural for him to wonder why and become insecure considering he is unhappy with no sex.
    I don’t think it’s appropriate for him to use that information against his partner but it is certainly understandable that it makes him insecure.


  • #57
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    Idle Passerby wrote: »
    I don't think its irrelevant per say but I do think it's a bit unsavoury to bring up someone's sexual past as a topic for discussion in a relationship. I think many people would be uncomfortable talking about or listening to details of their/ their partners sex lives prior to the current relationship.

    For starters there are so many variables to render it meaningless. How can someone say "you shagged X a decade ago and liked it so why don't you shag me now."

    That's why I think it's pertinent how this knowledge of her sexual history came about. Did she gleefully tell him in which case you'd have to wonder why. Or did he wheedle it out of her in a bout of insecurity?

    Sure but she never shagged him. The sex life was non existent the whole time. She was fresh out of relationships with a healthy sex life at the beginning of her and OPs relationship. And she also broke up with him and was having plenty of sex for 6 months.

    Her and him not having sex has been a feature of the entire relationship, which is why we can look at how her behaviour has always been different with him. We aren't just comparing now with 10 years ago, we are comparing 10 years ago with 11 years ago.

    And who cares if he 'wheedled it out of her in a bout of insecurity'? If you spent 10 years being ignored for sex with the exception of her baby making desires, I'd be far more than just insecure about it.


  • #58
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Just a general observation...Boards seem to have a lot of these threads over the years...

    I have seen it from older work colleagues too...

    Is the demonisation of sex by the church in Ireland an issue here? Seems to be a good bit of once we have the kids that's it, I'm closed for business...

    My BIL is currently having issues, has 2 children (youngest in 3) no sex since that child was conceived...his taking to having an affair because for him the fights about her not wanting to go to councilling are too much...His the sole breadwinner so can't afford to leave


  • #59
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Sure but she never shagged him. The sex life was non existent the whole time. She was fresh out of relationships with a healthy sex life at the beginning of her and OPs relationship. And she also broke up with him and was having plenty of sex for 6 months.

    Her and him not having sex has been a feature of the entire relationship, which is why we can look at how her behaviour has always been different with him. We aren't just comparing now with 10 years ago, we are comparing 10 years ago with 11 years ago.

    And who cares if he 'wheedled it out of her in a bout of insecurity'? If you spent 10 years being ignored for sex with the exception of her baby making desires, I'd be far more than just insecure about it.

    I don't disagree. My assumption is she probably never really fancied him. I do think it's relevant how it came up though. If she told him of her own volition it sounds like she's rubbing it in his face or blaming him for not being attractive to her. If he wheedled it out if her that neediness isn't going to help with her lack of attraction.


  • #60
    Kalimah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Kalimah


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Just a general observation...Boards seem to have a lot of these threads over the years...

    I have seen it from older work colleagues too...

    Is the demonisation of sex by the church in Ireland an issue here? Seems to be a good bit of once we have the kids that's it, I'm closed for business...

    My BIL is currently having issues, has 2 children (youngest in 3) no sex since that child was conceived...his taking to having an affair because for him the fights about her not wanting to go to councilling are too much...His the sole breadwinner so can't afford to leave

    God absolutely not the case re the church and I was married and having kids in the 80s. To me it's selfish women ( and men) and nothing else.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    osarusan wrote: »
    Hard for the OP to get it out of their head though.


    For some bizarre reason, when they were still friends, his now-wife told him about how frequently she was having sex with her boyfriends and how much she liked it. He's not going to forget that, and when they became an item, the OP probably imagined that they'd be having much the same sex life.

    It may not be helpful in discussions (and I advised the OP not to mention it), but it's understandable for the OP to wonder why this woman who was once so openly enthusiastic about sex has never shown any similar enthusiasm for sex with him.

    It would probably be better for everybody if she'd never shared that particular piece of information with him.

    The reason is not that bizarre imo. The reason is (unfortunately for the OP) that I don't think his wife saw him as a potential partner for a long time imo. I don't think you mention such things to anyone you see as a potential partner unless you're playing sick games with them... which I don't think is the case.

    Really awkward spot for the OP and feelings go out to him. I don't think the relationship was built on physical attraction from her side at all. Plenty of options now but none too easy.

    However, the major positive is the strong friendship. Many people don't have that either. At least they should hopefully be able to work something out.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement