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27-11-2018, 08:54   #46
Peregrinus
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In his own words he was teaching the girl an Islamic ritual... in a mosque... It’s hardly a wild jump to a conclusion in this case.
The claim was not that the offender was a Muslim; this is undisputed. The claim was that the offender isn't being deported because "we have a Muslim leader", i.e. Varadkar.
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27-11-2018, 08:54   #47
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The Herald selectively report things so they have the most dramatic story. Here is a report on it from the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...03130?mode=amp

The judge accepted a report that he was schizophrenic and delusional. There was a further report that said he wasn't. I'm not clear on whether they conflict or refer to dufferent times. It doesn't say if he is being treated for schizophrenia.

Also they said him being Bangladeshi would make prison more difficult, and he had a family.

I didn't see whether he will be able to continue his career teaching children. I would assume no, but if he is then that is the most outrageous thing of all.

I don't see how any of this makes him less dangerous, or how it is reasonable to accept as mitigating factors.
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27-11-2018, 08:55   #48
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Jaysus lads.

Peregrinus is responding to the knob head who said Leo is a Muslim .
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27-11-2018, 08:59   #49
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I reckon being a child molestor is more likely to cause someone a difficult time in prison than being from Bangladesh.
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27-11-2018, 08:59   #50
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The judge accepted a report that he was schizophrenic and delusional. There was a further report that said he wasn't. I'm not clear on whether they conflict or refer to dufferent times. It doesn't say if he is being treated for schizophrenia.
He's not being treated.
It's mealy-mouthed, but the below paragraph isn't actually contradictory
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The court heard that a psychological report stated that Rashid currently meets the diagnostic criteria for schziophrenia and delusional disorder and is psychologically vulnerable. A further psychiatric report indicated that at present he is not suffering from a psychiatric illness.
"Meets the diagnostic criteria" is a bit of a long-winded way of saying that he hasn't been diagnosed.
"at present he is not suffering", is saying that he's OK right now.

So he's of a stable mind at present, but long-term he meets the criteria for a schizophrenia diagnosis.
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I didn't see whether he will be able to continue his career teaching children. I would assume no, but if he is then that is the most outrageous thing of all.
He will fail Garda vetting, so there's no way he'll be able to get employment with young or vulnerable people again.
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27-11-2018, 09:00   #51
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Jaysus lads.

Peregrinus is responding to the knob head who said Leo is a Muslim .
Yeh I get that now. That guy was a total loon.

Who the Fcuk thinks Leo is a Muslim. Most of the time I forget he isn’t white.
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27-11-2018, 09:02   #52
Peregrinus
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The Herald selectively report things so they have the most dramatic story. Here is a report on it from the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...03130?mode=amp

The judge accepted a report that he was schizophrenic and delusional. There was a further report that said he wasn't. I'm not clear on whether they conflict or refer to dufferent times. It doesn't say if he is being treated for schizophrenia.

Also they said him being Bangladeshi would make prison more difficult, and he had a family.

I didn't see whether he will be able to continue his career teaching children. I would assume no, but if he is then that is the most outrageous thing of all.

I don't see how any of this makes him less dangerous, or how it is reasonable to accept as mitigating factors.
I don't think he has a "career as a teacher"; from the newspaper report, he works as a chef. He's described as "a teacher in a Dublin mosque", but I think this was a voluntary, part-time thing, in the equivalent of a Sunday school. Like you, I assume that particular gig is permanently up. (None of the reporting of this has suggested that the mosque authorities were obstructive, unhelpful or in any kind of denial. Unlike some denominations that we could think of.)

Coverage of the psychological/psychiatric reports is confusing, I agree. And what's completely missing from the reports is any opinion expressed in the reports as to whether he poses a future risk, or whether any risk can be or is being managed through engagement with treatment services. These would certainly be relevant considerations in sentencing.
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27-11-2018, 09:15   #53
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I don't think he has a "career as a teacher"; from the newspaper report, he works as a chef. He's described as "a teacher in a Dublin mosque", but I think this was a voluntary, part-time thing, in the equivalent of a Sunday school. Like you, I assume that particular gig is permanently up. (None of the reporting of this has suggested that the mosque authorities were obstructive, unhelpful or in any kind of denial. Unlike some denominations that we could think of.)

Coverage of the psychological/psychiatric reports is confusing, I agree. And what's completely missing from the reports is any opinion expressed in the reports as to whether he poses a future risk, or whether any risk can be or is being managed through engagement with treatment services. These would certainly be relevant considerations in sentencing.
I doubt he is engaging with treatment. He denies doing anything. I extrapolate from that that he doesn't accept any diagnosis.

If the act was realted to schizophrenia, you'd think that he would be monitored, and be committed if he starts heading into a state where he might do something like this. However mental health services in Ireland only seem to activate at crisis point so I doubt this is the case.
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27-11-2018, 09:27   #54
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I doubt he is engaging with treatment. He denies doing anything. I extrapolate from that that he doesn't accept any diagnosis.
That thought occurred to me too. If he's basically in denial about what he has done, this doesn't bode well for his engagement with support services.

On the other hand, what he says to a journalist when ambushed in the street in stressful circumstances by media that he will presume to be hostile and what he says to his family, his doctor or his counsellors are not necessarily the same thing. Plus, of course, whatever he said to journalists on release can't have been a factor in sentencing; he hadn't said it then.

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If the act was realted to schizophrenia, you'd think that he would be monitored, and be committed if he starts heading into a state where he might do something like this. However mental health services in Ireland only seem to activate at crisis point so I doubt this is the case.
We don't know what mental health treatment or support the guy is getting. People suffering from schizophrenia rarely present a threat to others - they are much more likely to present a threat to themselves. It would be unusual for somebody with schizophrenia to be sectioned, thought it does happen. Realistically, it won't happen unless (at the very least) he or someone very close to him seeks it (and, even then, only if the medics agree).

Note that he is still subject to supervision by the probation services while the suspended part of his sentence is served. Vengeance fantasies notwithstanding, in terms of community protection there is value to a part-suspension of a sentence, so that the offender's transition to community services can be monitored, managed and, if necessary, enforced. This is particularly important if he does have mental health issues that are contributing to his offending behaviour.
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27-11-2018, 09:30   #55
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Its nothing to do with race, this fella will abuse again 100%. 10 months for raping a child, how are people standing for this?

The may aswell have invited him to target more kids.
Well they have really.
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27-11-2018, 09:31   #56
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The Gardai will be watching him very closely (including his internet traffic). One small slip up, if he sneezes the wrong way, id say he be brought in.
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27-11-2018, 09:36   #57
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He’s an Irish citizen? Who’s the Muslim leader , Obama?
Leo Hussein Varadkar.
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27-11-2018, 09:36   #58
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That thought occurred to me too. If he's basically in denial about what he has done, this doesn't bode well for his engagement with support services.

On the other hand, what he says to a journalist when ambushed in the street in stressful circumstances by media that he will presume to be hostile and what he says to his family, his doctor or his counsellors are not necessarily the same thing. Plus, of course, whatever he said to journalists on release can't have been a factor in sentencing; he hadn't said it then.


We don't know what mental health treatment or support the guy is getting. People suffering from schizophrenia rarely present a threat to others - they are much more likely to present a threat to themselves. It would be unusual for somebody with schizophrenia to be sectioned, thought it does happen. Realistically, it won't happen unless (at the very least) he or someone very close to him seeks it (and, even then, only if the medics agree).

Note that he is still subject to supervision by the probation services while the suspended part of his sentence is served. Vengeance fantasies notwithstanding, in terms of community protection there is value to a part-suspension of a sentence, so that the offender's transition to community services can be monitored, managed and, if necessary, enforced. This is particularly important if he does have mental health issues that are contributing to his offending behaviour.
If his schizophrenia was a factor in him molesting a child, then his specific case of schizophrenia does present a risk to others. If his schizophrenia was not a factor then I disagree with it being accepted as a mitigating factor.

Slightly off topic, but being a danger to yourself is sufficient grounds for sectioning, you don't have to be a threat to others as well.
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27-11-2018, 09:41   #59
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The Gardai will be watching him very closely (including his internet traffic). One small slip up, if he sneezes the wrong way, id say he be brought in.
Sadly couldn't be further from the truth. Garda resources that badly stretched they might not even know he's out.
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27-11-2018, 09:46   #60
Peregrinus
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If his schizophrenia was a factor in him molesting a child, then his specific case of schizophrenia does present a risk to others. If his schizophrenia was not a factor then I disagree with it being accepted as a mitigating factor.
But if it was his undiagnosed, untreated schizophrenia which contributed to the offence then, yes, it's a factor that mitigates in sentencing, since it reduces his personal culpability and it suggests that risk to the community may be mitigated by diagnosis/treatment.

I think we agree that the newspaper reports of the psych reports are confusing, but one possible reading of this. . .

Quote:
The court heard that a psychological report stated that Rashid currently meets the diagnostic criteria for schziophrenia and delusional disorder and is psychologically vulnerable. A further psychiatric report indicated that at present he is not suffering from a psychiatric illness.
. . . is that, as a result of the diagnosis made in the first report, Rashid has received treatment which means that although still "psychologically vulnerable", he's not now "sufferingfrom a psychiatric illness".

(It's also worth pointing out that, if mental health issues are part of what's at the root of his offending, then in terms of risk to the community the longer he spends in prison the worse, since prison is not a place conducive to good or improved mental health.)

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Slightly off topic, but being a danger to yourself is sufficient grounds for sectioning, you don't have to be a threat to others as well.
Also slightly off-topic: Yes, I know.
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