Laws Question? Ask here!

who_me · 21-01-2019 9:01pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

would need to see clip. so it was a choke tackle and ref called release as ball carrier got a knee/knees to ground and therefore not maul?
If he wasnt held on ground and ref deemed it fine then play on?
Dont necessarily see this as a problem but do you have a clip or at least idea of time in game it happened?

Video contained here (might want to turn sound down before watching, music is loud). Edit - I should add this is in the phase before the try is scored; but it is the crucial line-break that sets it up.

The Lost Sheep · 21-01-2019 9:08pm

who_me wrote: »

Video contained here (might want to turn sound down before watching, music is loud). Edit - I should add this is in the phase before the try is scored; but it is the crucial line-break that sets it up.

nothing wrong with anything for scores there like you suggested

sydthebeat · 21-01-2019 9:14pm

who_me wrote: »

Video contained here (might want to turn sound down before watching, music is loud). Edit - I should add this is in the phase before the try is scored; but it is the crucial line-break that sets it up.

There's no maul there.

Theres just a tackle which wasn't completed

Iompair · 21-01-2019 9:48pm

I see what he's saying the 6 has his knees on the ground and isn't held. He then rolls/spins away and gets back to his feet. Couldn't hear if the ref called release indicating a complete tackle.

sydthebeat · 21-01-2019 11:23pm

Iompair wrote: »

I see what he's saying the 6 has his knees on the ground and isn't held. He then rolls/spins away and gets back to his feet. Couldn't hear if the ref called release indicating a complete tackle.

i think the referee just calls the wrong word....

he wants to let the tackler assist know its not a maul, its a tackle, and to release.... but instead of shouting 'tackle', he shouts 'release'

who_me · 22-01-2019 12:28am

Iompair wrote: »

I see what he's saying the 6 has his knees on the ground and isn't held. He then rolls/spins away and gets back to his feet. Couldn't hear if the ref called release indicating a complete tackle.

Exactly - without the sound, this probably looks ok.

But the referee does call "release" and the Scarlets players - whether complying with the referee's instruction, or just falling off the tackle - release him; only for him to scamper on, resulting in a try one phase later.

Someone suggests above that the ref might just have used the wrong word; but I'm not sure that's the case. As defences try the choke tackle more, refs seem to be quicker to call release if the player is only being held up off the ground by the tackler. Once the call is made, surely the tackled player has to release the ball too. It's not Schroedinger's tackle... it's complete or it isn't! :P

sydthebeat · 22-01-2019 1:36pm

who_me wrote: »

Someone suggests above that the ref might just have used the wrong word; but I'm not sure that's the case. As defences try the choke tackle more, refs seem to be quicker to call release if the player is only being held up off the ground by the tackler. Once the call is made, surely the tackled player has to release the ball too. It's not Schroedinger's tackle... it's complete or it isn't! :P

yeah thats a fair point, its hard to see anything here other than a ref mistake.

The Lost Sheep · 24-01-2019 11:11pm

The RFU has ended its armpit-level tackle height trial in the Championship Cup. Preliminary study found rate of concussions to be higher under the trial laws.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/01/24/rfu-halt-tackle-height-trial-rise-concussion-rate-championship/

Will be interesting to see what happens next about tackle height and concussion now

Hands Like Flippers · 11-02-2019 7:34pm

How far away is a 9 allowed to stand from a scrum whilst level with the back foot?

Cheers

sydthebeat · 11-02-2019 8:00pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

How far away is a 9 allowed to stand from a scrum whilst level with the back foot?

Cheers

As far as they want... That's his off side line.

Hands Like Flippers · 11-02-2019 9:25pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

As far as they want... That's his off side line.

Thought so. Ref wouldn't allow it on Sat. Made him. Stay beside scrum. Cheers

Yeah_Right · 11-02-2019 9:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

As far as they want... That's his off side line.

Are you sure? I thought if they across the field away from the scrum by more than 5 metres, they also had to move back in line with the other backs.

Tomtom364 · 11-02-2019 10:06pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Are you sure? I thought if they across the field away from the scrum by more than 5 metres, they also had to move back in line with the other backs.

Behind the line of the ball, 1m from the scrum,

In line with the back foot of his 8 anywhere he likes across the pitch

Or 5m back aka the regular offside line.

He is not allowed to venture between the line of the hindmost foot and the line 5m back. If he does then he must retreat to the 5m back offside line and remain there.

The Lost Sheep · 17-02-2019 12:42pm

So double movement or try?
Nothing making me think its double movement.
https://v.redd.it/g9bsle7dd0h21/DASH_240

Losty Dublin · 17-02-2019 1:06pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So double movement or try?
Nothing making me think its double movement.
https://v.redd.it/g9bsle7dd0h21/DASH_240

First look and yeah it seems fine but a second play makes for a different story. Ball carrier does push himself up with his hand having been grounded in the tackle. Luckily for him the tackler let him go momentarily and let him away with it. Definitely one for the club house assessor committee.

The Lost Sheep · 23-02-2019 5:37pm

bilston wrote: »

Point of law question.

Belleau kicks the penalty to touch right at the end. Adam Hastings catches the ball. Now it looked to me as though Hastings caught the ball in play and then stepped into touch. That being the case the game should have ended there?

Hastings was in touch, feet just touching the line, so lineout call was correct.

Shelflife · 24-02-2019 2:49am

It’s an interesting call. Personally I thought he caught it in the field of play and then put his foot on the line so it should have been game over.

If we take the view that his feet were on the line when he caught it and the ball hasn’t crossed the plane of touch then he has effectively made the ball dead. So therefore it hasn’t gone directly into touch and it’s game over.

Quintis · 02-03-2019 4:42pm

If a player collects the ball on the ground, does the opposition player have to let me get back to his feet before playing the ball? Also, can you be pinged for holding on/not releasing if not tackled?

sydthebeat · 02-03-2019 4:47pm

Quintis wrote: »

If a player collects the ball on the ground, does the opposition player have to let me get back to his feet before playing the ball? Also, can you be pinged for holding on/not releasing if not tackled?

No you don't have to let him up, you're just not allowed to flop down on him, or tackle him on the ground.

If your talking about the TOH one today, TOH was right to stand over him and go for the back. Giles was on the floor and has to release, regardless of being tackled or not (you can't play the ball if your not on your feet in rugby)

The Lost Sheep · 21-03-2019 7:46pm

Any thoughts on these trials?

https://www.the42.ie/world-rugby-law-trials-player-welfare-4551248-Mar2019/

Squidgy Black · 21-03-2019 8:26pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Any thoughts on these trials?

https://www.the42.ie/world-rugby-law-trials-player-welfare-4551248-Mar2019/

The kick rule is an interesting one, looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Will put a big importance on fullback positioning and allow more attacking from deep with more players in the backfield, and leave more space out wide in the defensive line if your wingers aren't rushing up because they'll be covering the backfield also.

Yellow card upgrade is one that's a no-brainer to me. Having an additional person reviewing incidents that a ref may not see in real time or in context can't hurt. Will definitely lead to some controversy in terms of backlash from fans though.

sydthebeat · 21-03-2019 8:31pm

Ironic that they used a picture of sio tomkinson getting a red card for a high tackle..... And that red card being dismissed

But on the 50/22.... One unforeseen result could be that teams become less off load orientated..... As quick turn over ball in the opposition half would probably mean you end up having to defend a line out in your own 22.... So will attacking teams actually deliberately leave two players back as well as the defense??? And we end up with rugby League with goalkeepers

crisco10 · 05-04-2019 8:43am

Just re-watching Leinster game, and in particular Stockdale's non-try.

Why did Leinster not get the 22 drop out (as Ross Byrne seemed to ask for) ? is the "advantage" from the knock-on not the 22 that would have come from the ball going dead in-goal? (the ball went over the touchline in goal after he knocked it on)

Losty Dublin · 05-04-2019 9:45am

crisco10 wrote: »

Just re-watching Leinster game, and in particular Stockdale's non-try.

Why did Leinster not get the 22 drop out (as Ross Byrne seemed to ask for) ? is the "advantage" from the knock-on not the 22 that would have come from the ball going dead in-goal? (the ball went over the touchline in goal after he knocked it on)

Advantage is either a possessional, terrortorial or positional benefit on a field of play in lieu of an instant restart to the game. For this a team generally needs to be in possession of the ball. A ball being made dead doesn’t offer up any of the above as Leinster didn’t get a chance to try and make good of their possession; therefore the game restarts with a scrum.

As an aside, a gain of 25-30 metres and an unrestricted restart kick would be a lot of advantage to gain off what should have been a try against.

crisco10 · 05-04-2019 10:34am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Advantage is either a possessional, terrortorial or positional benefit on a field of play in lieu of an instant restart to the game. For this a team generally needs to be in possession of the ball. A ball being made dead doesn’t offer up any of the above as Leinster didn’t get a chance to try and make good of their possession; therefore the game restarts with a scrum.

As an aside, a gain of 25-30 metres and an unrestricted restart kick would be a lot of advantage to gain off what should have been a try against.

Thanks, it would be a lot of advantage, as a Leinster fan I would have wanted it!

But consider if the ball had rolled out over the touchline in the field of play, you frequently see the ref giving the team the "option" of scrum or lineout in that situation. In this situation the advantage can be taken as the lineout.

So it seems slightly inconsistent that the law changes once you cross the tryline. (Granted I know that lots of other Laws change in the ingoal area too, eg offside)

Losty Dublin · 05-04-2019 11:50am

crisco10 wrote: »

Thanks, it would be a lot of advantage, as a Leinster fan I would have wanted it!

But consider if the ball had rolled out over the touchline in the field of play, you frequently see the ref giving the team the "option" of scrum or lineout in that situation. In this situation the advantage can be taken as the lineout.

So it seems slightly inconsistent that the law changes once you cross the tryline. (Granted I know that lots of other Laws change in the ingoal area too, eg offside)

Totally different situation there. When the ball leaves the field during open plan no law has been infringed. As such there isn’t an advantage being played so there isn’t an advantage to offer a team. The scrum or line out option in an instance of ball going dead is simply a means of restarting the game; it isn’t an advantage to anybody.

blackwhite · 05-04-2019 11:54am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Totally different situation there. When the ball leaves the field during open plan no law has been infringed. As such there isn’t an advantage being played so there isn’t an advantage to offer a team. The scrum or line out option in an instance of ball going dead is simply a means of restarting the game; it isn’t an advantage to anybody.

I think he's referencing an instance where the ball is knocked on into touch, as opposed to a kick-off going straight out.

In that instance, the scrum advantage for the knock-on is given as an option, rather than taking the line-out, which is the restart from ball going out of play.

crisco10 · 05-04-2019 12:06pm

blackwhite wrote: »

I think he's referencing an instance where the ball is knocked on into touch, as opposed to a kick-off going straight out.

In that instance, the scrum advantage for the knock-on is given as an option, rather than taking the line-out, which is the restart from ball going out of play.

yup, that was what i meant. a ball knocked on into touch, probably could have been clearer! and the offended against team can either take the scrum for the knock-on or the lineout for the ball crossing the touchline.

sydthebeat · 05-04-2019 12:24pm

crisco10 wrote: »

Just re-watching Leinster game, and in particular Stockdale's non-try.

Why did Leinster not get the 22 drop out (as Ross Byrne seemed to ask for) ? is the "advantage" from the knock-on not the 22 that would have come from the ball going dead in-goal? (the ball went over the touchline in goal after he knocked it on)

i was at the game so im not sure of the communications with the TMO.. but im going to assume the on field decision was a try, and the TMo was to check if there was anything wrong with that decision.

Therefore the knock over-ruled the on field decision.

No advantage can occur in that situation because 'advantage' is used to keep the game going. the game has stopped in that situation.

in the example above (knock on into touch) this isnt an "advantage" play.

its an 'option' that the non offending team has, as two infringements have occurred.

pickarooney · 05-05-2019 10:47pm

Pro D2 game this afternoon in high winds. White have a penalty 15m out and to the right. Black retreat, expecting the kick at goal. 10 white shapes as though he's going to take the place kick (no tees, players were hiding the ball in place) then spots his left winger unmarked and instead kicks the ball over towards him from his hands. The ball sailed past the winger and bounced twice into touch.

Which team should have the throw in here?

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