Should I ever speak to my friend again?

LegacyUser · 14-03-2019 3:32am #1

Regular poster in PI but going anon for this.

I'm sorry if the background is overly detailed and I'm sorry for the long post, it's hard to summarise though. Basically I stopped speaking to a good friend of mine last August. I HATE this phrase, but let's call him Adam :rolleyes: He's Irish but has lived in Austria for the last few years. Last year he became a father, it was an unplanned pregnancy from a casual relationship and a very toxic situation overall, he got very down about it. All of this is besides the point, except to say that I was his shoulder to cry on, we talked practically every day. Basically held his hand from afar, I suppose.

A couple of months after the baby was born, I organised to come over to Austria to visit. I let him know when I'd be booking flights for August, confirmed everything with him etc. We were contact a bit less after the baby was born, he was busy with that naturally. In June he was in Dublin very briefly on his way to visit his family (he's from a remote area of the country). I only found out afterwards, and put it down to it being a quick visit that he didn't contact me to meet up (I'm from Dublin).

A couple of weeks before I was due to fly, I messaged him asking what days he was working during my visit. I was planning on visiting another friend in a different part of Austria too. Coincidentally my best friend was interrailing and was going to visit Vienna too while I was there. Adam said he wasn't going to be in Vienna that week, and it turned out he'd been in Ireland for a month, all through July. The baby's mother is half Irish and they were with her grandparents in Munster for the summer. He'd be back the day before I was due to leave. Never said any of this to me til then.

My Austrian friend was expecting me over there too and the money was spent, so I couldn't cancel the trip. The result was that out of the eight days I spent four on my own, travelled to literally the other side of Austria to meet my Austrian friend for a night and then back to Vienna. My friend who was interrailing changed his schedule to spend more time in Austria with me, only for him doing that I would have been stuck there on my own for a week, and I detoured to Bratislava for a day to meet him again rather than spending another day alone in that city. I'd never travelled alone before and don't like to travel anyway so I spent a lot of the trip anxious. The only saving grace was that I can speak German.

I never said it to Adam, I was just so angry and hurt that I couldn't formulate a way to say it without going spare at him, which is weird for me because I am very good at regulating my emotions (probably too good). He messaged me a good few times after, I didn't reply and haven't spoken to him since.

The above is complicated by the fact that I had a very good friend who passed away several years ago, we were extremely close, and she was Adam's girlfriend. That's how we know each other. She and I were very close but we didn't have many mutual friends apart from her boyfriend. I supported him a lot during her illness, and we became close because of that. The result is that he is/was my last real connection to her. I don't have anything of hers or any keepsakes, just a photograph.
To be clear, my friendship with him was not an attempt to keep my friendship with her alive, we were genuinely friends in our own right. I still think about her every day, I miss her still, but I've long since accepted the fact of her death.

I suppose I'm writing this cos I don't know how to feel about it. Part of me wants to contact him again, but I'm still hurt when I think about it. I'm not praising myself or anything but I was a very good friend to him over the years, and suddenly he can't be bothered to visit me, or even tell me when he's in Ireland and let me book a trip to see him when he knew he wasn't going to be there/could have let me know months beforehand. A big part of me too is sad that this is how my last tangible connection to my dead friend ends, and she is dead now longer than I knew her. I know it doesn't actually change anything though, but it makes me feel guilty for not speaking to him.

Am I right to be this annoyed, or am I being precious? I know it must be obvious objectively, I just can't decide.

If you got this far, thank you so much for reading, and I'm grateful for any responses.

LegacyUser · 14-03-2019 7:52am

I was feeling as aggrieved& annoyed as you, until I got to the last few paragraphs.
It may simply be too painful for him to meet you in person, as you are a reminder to him as well, of the girl he lost forever, & the life he dreamt of having.
Also, his current gf& mother of his child may have put the foot down & banned contact with you. For much the same reason; a deceased ex is on a pedestal no live person can compete with.
Whatever's going on, leave him to it.
Reply civilly to texts, but in future let him travel to meet you. Don't ask for contact/meetings, let him. Everything will become clear over time.

Xterminator · 14-03-2019 9:37am

Hi Op

I know you want to be good friends with this person in theory. and when your on the opposite sides of the world swapping occasional messages its not hard to keep up appearances with light chat.

Bu how long is it since you met up face to face? how long since you shared your private thoughts with each other? I suspect this friendship had withered away, what with the distance, his problems you mention, the awkwardness of talking with his dead ex girlfriends mates who bring back memories, and him moving on having a family etc.

that doesn't excuse his behaviour but it might frame it in such a way you can perhaps be calmer about it. He was bang out of line letting you come over with expectations of meeting up, if he had no intention of doing so. And to not even let you know he was in Ireland was again, a slap in the face.

When your calm enough i think you will have to message him back and let him know your disappointed & hurt with how this has played out. Because if your going to salvage anything from this i think that has to be acknowledged. If he is a decent person, he will see you have a point and hopefully you can move on.

If not .. .then that's an answer in itself. But you can only control your own behaviour, and i think you should make contact and let him know whats going on in your thoughts, rather than ghosting him.

woodchuck · 14-03-2019 9:55am

Last year he became a father, it was an unplanned pregnancy from a casual relationship and a very toxic situation overall, he got very down about it.

OP I am right in saying that the relationship itself is toxic? And that he's still in this relationship?

If so, I'd say that this is a major factor. If it's a toxic/controlling relationship, it's likely that his partner is calling all the shots. Often these type of people try to isolate their partner from their friends. She may have kept him on a tight leash when they were in Ireland. She may have "not allowed" him to see you when you were in Austria. If she knows how much support you've been to him, this is even more likely.

If you think this is a possibility, I'd make the effort to reach out to him again. If he's stuck in a toxic relationship, he'll need a friend more than ever.

baby and crumble · 14-03-2019 10:50am

Can I ask a question, are you male or female OP? The reason i ask is a lot of people get weird about their partner having opposite sex friends, especially if a relationship connection is there. If the relationship is 'toxic' as you say, this may well be a factor.

I do agree with a previous poster that you might be a reminder to him of his past girlfriend, which he may now - with a new family to think about - need to move past. it sucks but it's human nature. I know I have a friend who took her own life and at the funeral her family and me were like "yes of course we'll keep in touch" but its 2 years now and neither of us have tried to maintain contact. It's just too painful for us all. We're each a reminder of what the other has lost.

....... · 14-03-2019 11:57am

It was rude of him to confirm your plans to visit then change his own so he wasnt in Austria at the same time and I see no reason why you cannot call him out on that - you did arrange the visit specifically to visit him?

It sounds like its probably his relationship in the way.

I dont think its a "I will never speak to him again" situation but maybe be wary of your interaction going forward and dont be so quick to put yourself out for him. You can dial back your own engagement with him without ending the friendship.

LolaJJ · 14-03-2019 12:24pm

Hey OP

It's not clear whether you are male or female.

I imagine, if you were his hand-holder regarding the unplanned pregnancy and toxic situation and he is trying to make the best of where he is at now then maybe meeting up with you would have involved having discussions where he would feel the need to justify or explain where his life is right now. That can be really hard for people, especially if you were some kind of internet confidant...

It was selfish and thoughtless of him to not inform you that he wasn't available during your trip but I'm guessing this isn't personal, and more to do with him than you. Also, he probably justified that by telling himself he wasn't the sole person you were travelling to see.

No harm in telling him you are hurt, being honest and open with people generally gets you some results, assuming they are half-way decent

Neyite · 14-03-2019 12:35pm

I'd probably downgrade it to acquaintances rather than good friend if it were me.

There could be a number of reasons why he wasn't able to meet and none of them to do with not wanting to. You haven't mentioned whether or not you have had children yourself but if not then the first decade few months are usually fraught with a lot of cancelled stuff because the child comes first - moreso if there's an element of toxic relationship between the parents as childbirth and parenting amplify any strained relationships. Other than that, it could be that his partner has PND and not up to visitors (and he's not allowed to tell anyone she's ill) or it could be that with a baby he's too broke to meet up with you. It could be a controlling relationship, or it could be that you are a reminder of his bereavement. You really don't know until he's ready to talk.

If he's a nice person then maybe give him the benefit of the doubt but don't go wasting money on a trip again to see him.

LegacyUser · 14-03-2019 1:07pm

woodchuck wrote: »

OP I am right in saying that the relationship itself is toxic? And that he's still in this relationship?

OP here. Thanks guys for the replies. Until I found out that he'd been in Ireland for a month with her, I was under the impression that they were not in a relationship, but I don't know now if thats still the case and they made a go of it. They probably have.

It was toxic in the sense that it was a casual relationship and then she wanted to make it more serious. He said he would prefer to keep it casual and she said cool (foolish of both but there you go). She got pregnant shortly after and immediately began behaving as if he was her boyfriend and threatening no access to the baby when he didnt fall into line. He became quite resentful of her and was convinced she deliberately trapped him (two of my female friends who dont know him or each other but know the story agreed with that, I'm more cautious ghough) but I told him it was besides the point, it didn't matter as he could never prove it and it didn't change anything. So yeah pretty toxic!

Xterminator wrote: »

Bu how long is it since you met up face to face? how long since you shared your private thoughts with each other?.

Face to face would have been roughly over a year prior to the trip. So about two years ago now. We talked a lot over the phone though, we kept in touch very closely considering how long it was between meet ups. In hindsight I think I was his go-to person for advice which is what makes it more hurtful that he treated me like this.

baby and crumble wrote: »

Can I ask a question, are you male or female OP?

Hi baby and crumble, I'm sorry to hear abour your friend.
It was difficult to talk about my friend alright, but in all honesty we didn't talk about her very often, or as often as you might think anyway.
I'm male (and gay if it's of any relevance! Ha). I don't think the baby's mother even knew I existed. I hadn't thought of it that way, that he might want to cut loose from the past that way. That's food for thought alright. It's still poor form to do it the way he did though I think.

Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a whinge!

LegacyUser · 14-03-2019 1:21pm

....... wrote: »

It was rude of him to confirm your plans to visit then change his own so he wasnt in Austria at the same time and I see no reason why you cannot call him out on that - you did arrange the visit specifically to visit him?

It was specifically to visit him and the baby. I had absolutely no interest in seeing Vienna itself to be honest and would never have gone there otherwise. My Austrian friend also arranged to meet me in Vienna, but her work pattern changed last minute so she couldn't travel to Vienna in the end, so I went to the other side of Austria to see her (glad I did!). My best mate happened to be interrailing at the same time and was to meet me in Vienna for a night, he changed that to three days when he realised I what was happening.

I know I should have called him out on it at the time, I just got so angry that I couldn't write a message that wasn't a big "go F*CK yourself, Adam". He was also vague about whether he would be in Vienna on the last day of my trip and was nonchalant about the whole thing, didn't apologise or anything so I was kind of stuck for how to react, which isn't like me!

KikiLaRue · 14-03-2019 1:46pm

anonymous16 wrote: »

It was specifically to visit him and the baby. I had absolutely no interest in seeing Vienna itself to be honest and would never have gone there otherwise. My Austrian friend also arranged to meet me in Vienna, but her work pattern changed last minute so she couldn't travel to Vienna in the end, so I went to the other side of Austria to see her (glad I did!). My best mate happened to be interrailing at the same time and was to meet me in Vienna for a night, he changed that to three days when he realised I what was happening.

I know I should have called him out on it at the time, I just got so angry that I couldn't write a message that wasn't a big "go F*CK yourself, Adam". He was also vague about whether he would be in Vienna on the last day of my trip and was nonchalant about the whole thing, didn't apologise or anything so I was kind of stuck for how to react, which isn't like me!

I'd be very upset with a friend who did that, but never speaking to them again seems extreme.

It seems like a little time has passed and you've calmed down a little now (from your entirely legitimate anger)

Can you address it assertively without losing the head.

"Hi. Things have seemed a little weird lately. You didn't tell me when you were home - and you didn't even let me know you weren't going to be in Vienna when I was coming to visit. I spent a lot of money on that trip and I took time off work. What happened there?"

See how they respond and decide how to go from there.

....... · 14-03-2019 1:53pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I'd be very upset with a friend who did that, but never speaking to them again seems extreme.

It seems like a little time has passed and you've calmed down a little now (from your entirely legitimate anger)

Can you address it assertively without losing the head.

"Hi. Things have seemed a little weird lately. You didn't tell me when you were home - and you didn't even let me know you weren't going to be in Vienna when I was coming to visit. I spent a lot of money on that trip and I took time off work. What happened there?"

See how they respond and decide how to go from there.

Excellent phrasing.

[Deleted User] · 14-03-2019 2:13pm

OP, that's not a toxic relationship you've described. It's just a couple saying different things to each other and then contending with a pregnancy where no matter what you or anyone else thinks is truly, in no uncertain terms, nothing to do with any of you. He may indeed have opened up to you about some things, but in stressful moments some people will talk to anyone about their problems. It doesn't mean that the two of you have a meaningful deep friendship in its own right. Helping each other out by talking about your friend, your loss (and I'm sorry to hear of it - losing people we love is always difficult, no matter the age or relationship) and some of the major developments in life now and again doesn't mean either of you get much more out of it than those moments on the phone or writing an IM. I suspect that without something tying you together, the two of you wouldn't have invested time and effort to become the kind of friends you might under other circumstances.

We've all been there, at least at some point in our lives, where we realise that a friendship isn't really that. And unfortunately friends, close friends who we care about, drift apart. It's important to accept that and not think about this as 'being used'. Life priorities change and for very many people, I don't think they have clarity and experience in how to gently let someone down and move onwards in whatever direction their lives are going. Why would they? It's unpleasant and if both people know this themselves, sometimes it's best to just let things plateau naturally.

There's every likelihood that this guy just doesn't want to be saying outright that he doesn't want to be friends. He might like you, I'm sure he does, but I think you may be more enthusiastic about the nature of your relationship, how meaningful and important the friendship is, than he may ever have wanted. I can't tell you how it is, but on some level you probably know this yourself. Your visit may well have been planned and he could have had every intention of meeting up with you for a polite/friendly/sociable get together, to have some dinner and a few drinks and introduce you to his partner and child, but that may be all he expected it to represent. I meet my wife's friends socially and we get on great, sometimes years between meeting, but we're not friends. We never will be. I'll always be glad to see them (if it really suits when the date arrives), but if something more important comes up, that's what I'll attend to and even if that means they have to entertain themselves instead of being hosted, that's just how it goes.

Think about it: Were you invited, or did you pretty much invite yourself? If you're good friends, did he invite you to stay at his place or just say 'sure, we'll meet up when I'm finished work'? If it's the latter, it was more of a 'look me up when you're in town' kind of thing, and I think you put too much emphasis on the importance of your visit and his expectation was totally different.

I get the fact you're hurt and I can see why, to at least some degree. That said, I think it's time to let this guy get on with his life and his family now, on his own terms and without having to apologise to or pacify you in any way. The past is the past and if he has any sense, he'll be looking forwards, thinking of his own future and his families, unfortunately meaning there may be little if any room for you in it. You should do the same I suppose, remember your friend fondly, remember the good craic ye shared together, but don't attach too much significance to 'Adam' in any of this. He's just a guy trying to do his best in life (which has greatly changed for him now) and you should NEVER complicate his life with your sense of loss or as some sort of tie to a person you miss.

I'd give you a slap on the back and buy you a pint now if I could. Mind yourself.

skallywag · 14-03-2019 2:14pm

Xccccc wrote: »

...Also, his current gf& mother of his child may have put the foot down & banned contact with you...

This also stands out to me.

OP, assuming you are female, it may well be possible that his new girlfriend has taken issue with you talking with him every day, etc.

beauf · 14-03-2019 2:18pm

I think I wouldn't bother. He's moved on and isn't interested in maintaining a friendship. I just wouldn't invest any more time with that person. If they try to reconnect in the future. I'd be polite but keep them at arms length.

Paddy Cow · 14-03-2019 8:11pm

anonymous16 wrote: »

I'm male (and gay if it's of any relevance! Ha).

It's relevant because it blows any theories out of the water that his current girlfriend maybe jealous of you. You're no threat to her if you're gay!

Honestly I think he used you and you are right to cut off contact. You were there for him when he needed it but he couldn't be bothered to meet up with you when he was in Ireland. He obviously gave you the impression he was over for a short stay and as a reasonable friend you didn't expect him to be able to meet you. Finding out he was there for a month was a slap in the face.

You might be able to over look something like that once but the second time is more deliberate. He let you book flights to Austria with the intention of spending time with him. You had plans to meet another friend and emailed him asking what days was he not working, so it's not like you were being clingy and expecting him to spend 24/7 with him. It was only two weeks before the flight when he told you he'd only be there the day before you left.

What he did was selfish and thoughtless and that's because he is just not invested in the friendship. You were someone to listen to him when he needed support but he has shown through his actions that he doesn't care as much about you, as you did about him. There's no excusing what he did. He blew you off in Ireland but then he let you fly to Austria and blew you off again!! He had the whole summer to let you know his plans had changed and he didn't bother.

I'd be raging if I was you op. I know you had other friends to see but they were secondary. Your primary reason was to visit Adam. You are a really good friend and deserve to be treated better. Remember the phrase "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me". I guarantee if you get back in contact with Adam and try to explain why you were upset, he will turn it around on you say that he thought you were coming to Austria to see other friends and it wasn't a big deal. He'll brush off the Irish incident.

I know it's hurtful but look at your history. You bonded because you supported Adam through his girlfriend's/your friend's illness. Then you supported him through an unexpected pregnancy. Sounds like he now has his life together and you just don't feature that high on his priorities, which is why he blew you off twice. It's an awful feeling knowing you've been used when you had the best of intentions but it happens more often than you think.

Personally I wouldn't try to rekindle this friendship. Adam sounds like the kind of guy who is happy to rely on you emotionally but isn't interested in spending time with you physically. He has already told you exactly who he is twice. Don't let him do it a third time. He's not the last connection you have to your friend. Your memories are.

LegacyUser · 14-03-2019 9:49pm

Maybe his new relationship wasn’t as awful or toxic as he made out to you. He could have been expressing loyalties to your deceased friend in a weird way. I’m sure it’s very difficult to move on after the loss of a partner and to find love again. Maybe he’s not in the headspace for conversations re: his deceased ex which would be an inevitable part of your visits and meetups at a time of new beginnings.

LegacyUser · 15-03-2019 3:54am

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Honestly I think he used you and you are right to cut off contact. You were there for him when he needed it but he couldn't be bothered to meet up with you when he was in Ireland. He obviously gave you the impression he was over for a short stay and as a reasonable friend you didn't expect him to be able to meet you. Finding out he was there for a month was a slap in the face.

That's exactly what happened. He gave the impression that he was on a brief visit home, which is in Ulster, didn't mention that he was taking an extended detour to Muster for a month or so. I don't know if that was deliberate but we were in touch during that time and all the while I thought he was in Vienna.

JayZeus wrote: »

you should NEVER complicate his life with your sense of loss or as some sort of tie to a person you miss.

This is a fair point and I hadn't thought of it like that. I do agree with you.

JayZeus wrote: »

I'd give you a slap on the back and buy you a pint now if I could. Mind yourself.

Thank you

KikiLaRue wrote: »

"Hi. Things have seemed a little weird lately. You didn't tell me when you were home - and you didn't even let me know you weren't going to be in Vienna when I was coming to visit. I spent a lot of money on that trip and I took time off work. What happened there?"

I have to say I couldn't have worded this better. I haven't decided what I'm going to do, but if I decide to contact him this will be my olive branch. Thanks a million.

LolaJJ wrote: »

I imagine, if you were his hand-holder regarding the unplanned pregnancy and toxic situation and he is trying to make the best of where he is at now then maybe meeting up with you would have involved having discussions where he would feel the need to justify or explain where his life is right now.

In all honesty this is what I was thinking since I found out he was staying with her family in Munster. He'd spent a lot of time going on about how she was treating him and how much he resented it, I'd said to him that it would be a mistake to get into a relationship with her for the wrong reasons and he agreed with that, so if they are now an item he might think it would be awkward to explain. He would see that as a climbdown - whereas I couldn't care less, it's his choice, not for me to judge and he doesn't have to explain himself to me at all, if that's what's happened.

Thanks a million again for all the replies, I really appreciate them.

Should I ever speak to my friend again?

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