Armstrong Cup 2018-19

Past_Pawn_99 · 05-03-2019 12:45am

Blanch 3-5 TCD

Tim Harding · 05-03-2019 1:16am

Past_Pawn_99 wrote: »

Blanch 3-5 TCD

So Blanch draw level with Bray and Elm Mount. Trinity creep back into third but Benildus can share that position if Kevin McHugh (who has White) beats Carl Jackson.

Third spot is going to be very tight, but Benildus have to play Kilkenny so unless that is a one-sided match, Trinity might yet squeeze into it. We have to play two more teams who are not yet safe so nothing can be taken for granted.

sodacat11 · 05-03-2019 10:52am

Tim Harding wrote: »

So Blanch draw level with Bray and Elm Mount. Trinity creep back into third but Benildus can share that position if Kevin McHugh (who has White) beats Carl Jackson.

Third spot is going to be very tight, but Benildus have to play Kilkenny so unless that is a one-sided match, Trinity might yet squeeze into it. We have to play two more teams who are not yet safe so nothing can be taken for granted.

Well we aren't going to know for a long time yet with some teams playing on March 9th and others not in action until the weekend of the 23rd-25th which clashes with the Galway Congress. Then of course we have to wait nearly two months until the final round.
Is it even possible to arrange the fixtures any worse????
There should be some changes for next season, The same sequence in which clubs have been playing each other for years should be changed, the league should finish in March and teams should not be allowed to field any "new" players for the last three rounds.

Tim Harding · 05-03-2019 11:27am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Well we aren't going to know for a long time yet with some teams playing on March 9th and others not in action until the weekend of the 23rd-25th which clashes with the Galway Congress. Then of course we have to wait nearly two months until the final round.
Is it even possible to arrange the fixtures any worse????
There should be some changes for next season, The same sequence in which clubs have been playing each other for years should be changed, the league should finish in March and teams should not be allowed to field any "new" players for the last three rounds.

"I second that emotion."

ishidaogo · 05-03-2019 1:04pm

Why has the LCU rule requiring 6 rounds of the league be played before Christmas been disregarded for some years now?

Tim Harding · 05-03-2019 1:22pm

ishidaogo wrote: »

Why has the LCU rule requiring 6 rounds of the league be played before Christmas been disregarded for some years now?

No idea; I have been calling for this for ages but didn't know it was actually a rule. Actually I think it must have been abolished but this season's timetable is in breach of a rule shown at http://www.leinsterchess.com/LCU_League_Rules.pdf

2.4 Fixtures shall be arranged so that the entire league programme is completed by the end of April ...

I think a lot of things go by default because the LCU agm is held mid-summer when a lot of people are away or thinking of matters other than chess, and because only club delegates can attend and vote? I wonder if Trinity has sent anyone along for years?

Is there provision in the LCU Constitution for an egm to be called where all these issues can be aired and which any ICU member in Leinster can attend?

Of course it would be desirable first to have a volunteer to offer to take over the role of League controller.
I am not volunteering but am willing to propose sodacat for this...

mikhail · 05-03-2019 5:45pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Is there provision in the LCU Constitution for an egm to be called where all these issues can be aired and which any ICU member in Leinster can attend?

The LCU is a union of clubs, not players.

This clearly means a lot to you, so I imagine you will attend as one of Dublin University's delegates.

I expect my club would seriously consider seconding and/or voting for a motion to ban new players in the last three rounds. Will Rathmines or Dublin University be proposing it?

It should also be straightforward to get answers on the scheduling issues the leagues controller is facing, so the meeting can propose solutions.

sodacat11 · 05-03-2019 6:23pm

mikhail wrote: »

The LCU is a union of clubs, not players.

This clearly means a lot to you, so I imagine you will attend as one of Dublin University's delegates.

I expect my club would seriously consider seconding and/or voting for a motion to ban new players in the last three rounds. Will Rathmines or Dublin University be proposing it?

It should also be straightforward to get answers on the scheduling issues the leagues controller is facing, so the meeting can propose solutions.

Do you think that your club would also be in favour of having the league finish by March and the changing of the sequence of fixtures?
From others I've spoken to there seems to be support for these measures.

sodacat11 · 05-03-2019 6:31pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Is there provision in the LCU Constitution for an egm to be called where all these issues can be aired and which any ICU member in Leinster can attend?

Of course it would be desirable first to have a volunteer to offer to take over the role of League controller.
I am not volunteering but am willing to propose sodacat for this...

Presumably the league controller would have to sit on the committee of the LCU?
After previous experiences as ICU P.R.O and Snooker Organiser in a golf club I have developed a severe allergy to anything to do with for committees.

mikhail · 05-03-2019 6:44pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Do you think that your club would also be in favour of having the league finish by March and the changing of the sequence of fixtures?
From others I've spoken to there seems to be support for these measures.

Changing the sequence of fixtures seems like one you'd get passed without trouble. The only complication would be if the leagues controller said something like the software that makes the fixtures is too inflexible, which might make it awkward. Worth dropping him a line to see if there's any impediment.

Finishing by March is probably more complex. It's worth a motion, but expect a discussion at the AGM about what's currently making it hard to finish earlier. Anticipating those problems and adding a concrete proposal or two that removes some of the problems would be more effective. E.g. if it's all down to the glut of Saturday games clashing with tournaments, you could propose some measure to discourage Saturday games in city clubs. Or pushing the proposals discussed in another thread to play two rounds of a Saturday, compacting the season. Or relaxing what competitions are considered to clash. Probably lots of other options that don't occur to me right this second too (some easier to pass than others). Point is that if you can anticipate why the problem arises, proposing a solution will work far more smoothly than proposing to fix the problem. (If you just let them talk about how to do it in an open-ended way, the AGM may well do something you don't want, or nothing at all.) Again, a chat with the current leagues controller would help frame the problem.

EnPassant · 05-03-2019 8:06pm

There was a rule passed at an LCU AGM a few years ago to the effect that where a club had teams in different divisions, a team should not have a fixture on the same date as the club's next highest team in a lower division (to allow for the strongest possible substitutes to be available).

This means that a provincial club with an Armstrong team and a second team in a lower division would normally have the teams play on alternate weekends.

I think the rule was never implemented for all rounds because the season was never long enough to apply all the rules correctly. To implement the rule correctly, there would need to be 20 Saturdays available in a season, and to have 6 Armstrong rounds before Christmas would probably require 11 Saturdays available before the Christmas break.

sodacat11 · 05-03-2019 9:59pm

EnPassant wrote: »

There was a rule passed at an LCU AGM a few years ago to the effect that where a club had teams in different divisions, a team should not have a fixture on the same date as the club's next highest team in a lower division (to allow for the strongest possible substitutes to be available).
.

Is it that important that the strongest possible subs are available? Clubs should have adequate squads and the players in those squads should do their best to be available. I notice an apparent reluctance with some players to travel long distances or to bother turning up for games against much weaker opposition.

Kilmokey · 06-03-2019 5:33pm

As EnPassant has said about 11 weeks before Christmas he would also have to add in all the weekend competitions as well So we have to add in the City of Dublin, Irish Rapid and Blitz, St Andrews, Cork Congress Limerick Open Irish Womens Championship and Kilkenny.

So with the City of Dublin down for the 6th Sept and 18 weekend required 6 for the remaining competitions and 12 for the two week cycle that means that the last weekend to finish before Christmas is around the 20th January and with 5 rounds its the 6 January. Also more clubs should be laying on a Saturday to help people get home after a game. For instance how do you get home from Celbridge if you don't drive or say Skerries and Bray if they have a mid week game as they do in the lower leagues. The rules have to cover all divisions and not just the Armstrong. I have heard that the League controller is stepping down so there will be ample opportunity for Tim and Sodacats to step up and get the square peg to fit the round hole. As when one problem is fixed another can be created.

sodacat11 · 06-03-2019 6:44pm

Well, for a start I don't think that rapid or blitz should impact on the running of real chess tournaments. Rapid and blitz tournaments are usually held on Sundays anyway. As for the Irish Women's Ch, could not the few females that play in our league rearrange their games if there is a clash? (Anyone thinking that I am being sexist (I'm not) or un PC may send their complaints directly to the Human Rights Organisation or whoever deals with such matters). Also, I don't see why we couldn't squeeze two rounds of matches into December without clashing with anything.

Another idea might be to have a controller for each division of the league instead of plonking the whole workload onto one person.

ChessPlayer123 · 06-03-2019 9:19pm

How about we just leave the Armstrong alone? Could people stop crying over minor inconveniences and just be happy we have a strong, fun league.

cdeb · 07-03-2019 12:20am

Benildus 4.5-3.5 Gonzaga

Gonzaga's first league defeat in 4.5 years

Tim Harding · 07-03-2019 9:55am

The League rules only say to avoid timetable clashes with LCU events not Limerick, Galway, Cork, Ennis etc.

IMPORTANT: what is going on about the Gonzaga B v Bray match?
http://www.chessleague.net/chessorg/leinster/table.php?org=1&lid=101

Both teams have been deducted their scores in the Reg column - why?

I can see how Gonzaga B could be in trouble. They have played Vicas below Carroll three times, possibly in breach of the 150 rule. Maybe relying on some provisional ICU rating for Vicas but FIDE he is now 2216. Or maybe a problem about Jonathan Pein?

But what have Bray done wrong?

Gonzaga B should have been strong enough to come in second in the Armstrong on their own resources without bringing in strangers.
When a strong player like Vicas comes to Dublin for a while they should let one of the other clubs have him to even out the competition, not exaggerate the gap.

So this goes back to what I've said before about them being greedy. If it ends up costing them second spot, it serves them right.

sodacat11 · 07-03-2019 10:06am

cdeb wrote: »

Benildus 4.5-3.5 Gonzaga

Gonzaga's first league defeat in 4.5 years

And as per usual Rathmines have to play these two in the final two rounds. No doubt Gonzaga will recruit Aagard, Maze, and others just to be sure to be sure.:(

cdeb · 07-03-2019 12:22pm

Tim - Reg is unregistered players

ishidaogo · 09-03-2019 8:42pm

BB 4 DL 3

cdeb · 09-03-2019 8:50pm

St Benildus 3-2 Kilkenny. Last three games on Wednesday.

Decent start for us - because the league fixtures don't change, we always get Kilkenny on the weekend of their annual dinner, so they typically have a full team for it

sodacat11 · 09-03-2019 11:19pm

cdeb wrote: »

St Benildus 3-2 Kilkenny. Last three games on Wednesday.

Decent start for us - because the league fixtures don't change, we always get Kilkenny on the weekend of their annual dinner, so they typically have a full team for it

Another good reason why the fixtures should change.

Tim Harding · 14-03-2019 12:26pm

cdeb wrote: »

St Benildus 3-2 Kilkenny. Last three games on Wednesday.

What happened in those games last night?

Rathmines v Gonzaga A tonight.

Danville · 15-03-2019 12:27am

Tim Harding wrote: »

What happened in those games last night?

Rathmines v Gonzaga A tonight.

St Benildus 5 Kilkenny 3

Rathminor · 15-03-2019 12:37am

Rathmines 2.5 Gonzaga A 5.5

Rathminor · 15-03-2019 12:45am

Tonight’s results confirm Gonzaga as champions.
The only team that can catch Gonzaga A for the title are Gonzaga B

macelligott · 19-03-2019 7:22pm

So Gonzaga "B" are still in with a chance of taking the title ahead of their "A" team. But first they need a very big score against Dublin on this coming Saturday - not easy. In the last round the "B" team has the easier pairing (Dun Laoghaire) as opposed to the "A" team who play Balbriggan.
I'll leave it to someone else to analyze the relegation "battle".

Tim Harding · 19-03-2019 7:35pm

The situation is complicated by the current deduction of points for non-registration.

That makes the analysis of the relegation battle messy, and if both Gonzaga teams failed to get their points back then other clubs could win the Cup.

In practice as we know the points are usually restored. Anyone know of exceptions?

cdeb · 19-03-2019 7:59pm

Anyone who doesn't get the points back deserves to be relegated tbh

They'll all be restored. But it's a good exercise all told

Tim Harding · 19-03-2019 9:44pm

Matters in the relegation zone will be a lot clearer after the remaining round 10 matches are played (two on Saturday and one next Monday).

Assuming all clubs get their Reg deductions back, I think we can assume that Dun Laoghaire are doomed. They are 5.5 or more adrift of four clubs which have a match in hand, and with Gonzaga B to come DL cannot hope to survive. Even an improbable 8-0 win for them might well be insufficient.

On the other hand, even if Balbriggan (37) are whitewashed in the last round by Gonzaga A they might survive. Rathmines and Dublin could both struggle to catch Balbriggan especially if the northsiders can score a point somewhere.

Rathmines (with only St. Benildus to play) are 3.5 behind Balbriggan and, though they have improved their chances lately, they are probably favourites to go down with DL as it stands.
However if Dublin (30 pts) were to be heavily whacked by Gonzaga B and still be in 11th after the weekend, then Rathmines prospects improve a bit.
Dublin play Trinity in that very badly timetabled last round when the college club may find it hard (between exams and the Ennis congress) to turn out in strength. I will play if called on but I cannot speak for others.

The other teams in the nether regions are all on 32.5 with two matches to go, and since Blanch plays Elm Mt on Monday, one or other or both should be safe after that. If not, Bray play Elm Mount in the last round which could yet be a significant match.
Blanch play Kilkenny in round 11.

Meanwhile Bray play Trinity on Saturday and we shall do our best to do Rathmines and Dublin a favour.

Armstrong Cup 2018-19

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