Missing(maybe mistranscribed) Civil Records

montgo · 05-01-2021 11:46am #1

Hi, can anyone help to locate the following:-
1881 Civil marriage of Maurice Fitzgerald & Mary Hayes who were married on 24 July 1881 per Emly (Tipperary district) parish register. There was a Fitzgerald/Hayes marriage dated 1 March 1881 but this is not the same pair.

Feb 14 1899, Robert Coffey of Hospital, Co. Limerick married Margaret Bourke/Burke of Emly. The marriage was recorded on the Emly Parish Register (no witnesses recorded). However, a newspaper report stated that the marriage took place in Thurles Cathedral. Is it possible that the marriage wasn't registered?

I am also looking for the marriage (civil/church) of Margaret Gleeson of Cappamore, Co. Limerick & John Gleeson. Their first child was born in 1883 in Cappamore.

Many thanks

Hermy · 05-01-2021 1:17pm

Have you been able to view the 1st Mar image?
Is there info on it that confirms it's a different couple?
I only get a 404 Error when trying to view it.

montgo · 05-01-2021 1:23pm

Thanks Hermy for looking. Yes, the link is faulty (I sent error report). Someone forwarded me the record from Roots.

The date, addresses, witness' names don't match. I just want to confirm that I have the correct father's name.

pinkypinky · 06-01-2021 10:26am

Have you tried just searching with their first names in the year/SRD? That would show up any possible mistranscriptions.

I think I've only found one marriage ever that was most definitely not registered, i.e. church had it but not in civil. Coincidently also in 1881.

montgo · 06-01-2021 12:08pm

Thanks Pinky for suggestion. I may have tried doing that before but will try again.

crossman47 · 08-01-2021 1:38pm

I am on a similar search. William Daly was one of those lost on 8 October 1896 when the Puffin Light Ship foundered on Daunt's Rock in Cork Harbour. He was born on 6 October 1870. I can find no record of his death in the civil registrations. I would think it would have to be in the Cork or Kinsale Districts. Any comment?

montgo · 08-01-2021 1:48pm

Hi crossman47,
Have you searched for the death records of the others who died on the Puffin on safe date?

crossman47 · 08-01-2021 2:45pm

montgo wrote: »

Hi crossman47,
Have you searched for the death records of the others who died on the Puffin on safe date?

Thanks for suggestion. I have now tried the others and cannot find a registration for any of them, even some with unusual names such as Robert Higginbotham. Perhaps they were registered in London?

montgo · 08-01-2021 3:01pm

With a tragedy such as that one, maybe the deaths were registered much later. Try freebmd.org.uk for UK deaths.

pinkypinky · 08-01-2021 3:42pm

It's also possible that if their bodies were not recovered, they do not have death registrations. Or that they were registered as "unknown", i.e. if the bodies washed up elsewhere at a later date and a connection was not made.

BowWow · 08-01-2021 3:54pm

crossman47 wrote: »

I am on a similar search. William Daly was one of those lost on 8 October 1896 when the Puffin Light Ship foundered on Daunt's Rock in Cork Harbour. He was born on 6 October 1870. I can find no record of his death in the civil registrations. I would think it would have to be in the Cork or Kinsale Districts. Any comment?

Registry of Deaths at Sea?
Think it's available on "FindMyPast".

Garlinge · 08-01-2021 4:21pm

After many years of looking I eventually found a forebear's marriage recorded in church register 1877 but never made it to the civil register. I think I checked others on same page and same story. A pity as it is the end of search, a civil marriage cert would have supplied name, address of fathers so chance to get back a generation.

montgo · 08-01-2021 7:21pm

My ggrandmother's surname was recorded incorrectly on the civil record but fortunately was easy enough to locate. My research and family knowledge also shows that her father's first name was also incorrect as well.

Pinky, I've tried again without success to find the civil records for the three marriages above.

crossman47 · 09-01-2021 1:12pm

crossman47 wrote: »

Thanks for suggestion. I have now tried the others and cannot find a registration for any of them, even some with unusual names such as Robert Higginbotham. Perhaps they were registered in London?

've tried other suggestions without success but Ancestry is now giving me a hint linked to the Civil Registrations that appears right (hint does not give access) so I think there is just a problem finding these deaths via irishgenealogy. Perhaps there were some special late entries?

pinkypinky · 09-01-2021 3:59pm

If anything what's on irishgenealogy should be more accurate on late entries than the indexes, which were created from microfilms taken in the 1950s.

Purple_Penguin · 12-01-2021 2:11pm

montgo wrote: »

Hi, can anyone help to locate the following:-
1881 Civil marriage of Maurice Fitzgerald & Mary Hayes who were married on 24 July 1881 per Emly (Tipperary district) parish register. There was a Fitzgerald/Hayes marriage dated 1 March 1881 but this is not the same pair.

Feb 14 1899, Robert Coffey of Hospital, Co. Limerick married Margaret Bourke/Burke of Emly. The marriage was recorded on the Emly Parish Register (no witnesses recorded). However, a newspaper report stated that the marriage took place in Thurles Cathedral. Is it possible that the marriage wasn't registered?

I am also looking for the marriage (civil/church) of Margaret Gleeson of Cappamore, Co. Limerick & John Gleeson. Their first child was born in 1883 in Cappamore.

Many thanks

Regarding Robert Coffey & Margaret Bourke, it is possible the marriage wasn't registered at all. I'd consider it a little unusual that it be in a paper, the Bourkes of Emly were not wealthy by any means. Also, Thurles is quite the distance to travel when the parties were in neighbouring parishes.

pinkypinky · 12-01-2021 3:31pm

Yes, but as mentioned above, only in a scenario where the priest forgot to send it in. In which case, I'd expect several people on the same page to have been missed.

crossman47 · 14-01-2021 12:02pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

If anything what's on irishgenealogy should be more accurate on late entries than the indexes, which were created from microfilms taken in the 1950s.

I have now been told that deaths at sea where no bodies were recovered were recorded in a different file that has not yet been uploaded to irishgenealogy (but it has been promised that it will be).

L1011 · 14-01-2021 1:23pm

crossman47 wrote: »

I have now been told that deaths at sea where no bodies were recovered were recorded in a different file that has not yet been uploaded to irishgenealogy (but it has been promised that it will be).

Ran in to that myself today. The Mormons have a microfilm of it but no way to get that currently with their centres closed.

crossman47 · 14-01-2021 1:55pm

L1011 wrote: »

Ran in to that myself today. The Mormons have a microfilm of it but no way to get that currently with their centres closed.

Are you sure the Mormons would have a copy of the detsils (age, cause of death, location, etc)?

Mick Tator · 14-01-2021 1:56pm

I was looking at Cork deaths recently and came across three successive deaths, no names, bodies recovered from a drowning. Sorry I didn't keep a record of it.

pinkypinky · 14-01-2021 5:20pm

This old GRO page lists what they have in Roscommon.

There is a section for people who died at sea but it's not clear whether there's a body or not.

http://groireland.ie/en/Pages/GRO_Research.aspx

Certainly, in my research for the RMS Leinster, I found people who drowned in that wreck recorded in the regular death records, but these were people who were identified.

Garlinge · 14-01-2021 6:27pm

I think there must be a difference for 'missing at sea, presumed drowned' and those whose bodies are eventually recovered. My mother told me her godfather was drowned at sea but I was never able to find a death record. (England, 1920's).

Missing(maybe mistranscribed) Civil Records

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