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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • #182
    Mortpourvelo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 393 ✭✭Mortpourvelo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are very few "normal" drinkers - if by normal you mean fulfilling an international definition of
    "moderate drinker"     - of alcohol in Ireland.

    Oh give it a rest. Now the CDC ???

    I'm sick and tired of the temperance society on here trying to equate a LEGALLY BOUGHT and LEGALLY CONSUMED pint with some gobshyte shooting up at the Spire.

    Give it a rest.


  • #183
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The upset here at the increase in the price of alcohol is entertaining. You must all be drinking much more than you're letting on to here if it's going to financially impact upon you so much. Would you all be as upset about a similar increase in the price of, say, fruit or vegetables?

    I look forward to the endless AH threads with hilarious rhetoric about a nebulous "nanny state" (and whatever other rhetoric the British tabloids use) when the price of fruit increases - not!

    Tax the plebs and their crap diets. Extend it to fatty/sugary foods quickly. Look at it as pre-payment for treating their weakness and lack of self-discipline in the future in our already overstretched health system.

    More idiotic nonsense.
    What has fruit and veg got to do with this thread?
    And again talking about Brexit. Are you a fanatic?
    Tell me, why is this actually a good idea? Bars and clubs will be exempt so the risk of being a burden on the health system is still there along with the hundreds of thousands killed each year on the roads.
    People that drink at home, are they just as bad? Is it justified that they should pay the bill of those of need their stomachs pumped?


  • #184
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There are very few "normal" drinkers - if by normal you mean fulfilling an international definition of
    "moderate drinker"     - of alcohol in Ireland.

    Jesus you're crap at this.


  • #185
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    People comparing the price of alcohol here with Spain or Germany are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    Irish people cannot be trusted with cheap drink. It's an undeniable fact.
    Attend any Christmas party with a free bar and have a look around at the end of the night. Most people will be pissed out of their heads.

    Yes, Germans drink 11.8 L of alcohol per person annum and the Spanish 11.2 L, while the crazy Irish get through 11.9. I take it you've never shared schnapps at a German party, or seen how much wine Spanish people get through.


  • #186
    Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Theres is not one single coherent fact based argument that supports MUP having any positive effect on drinking attitudes

    In our post-truth world, many people have now made this claim here without citing any evidence. As I pointed out here, however, the international evidence says exactly the opposite: MUP works.


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  • #187
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    Why not make the people who cause trouble pay for the damage/medical etc? Just take it straight out the wages/dole
    No need to punish the many who enjoy a drink & do no wrong

    Yes, perhaps we could have a system whereby people found to be "drunk and disorderly" could pay fines, while those found to be driving drunk or fighting while drunk would be fined or imprisoend.


  • #188
    Oodoov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭Oodoov


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Nobody is raising taxes. This is just a price increase. There is no monetary benefit to the state in this.

    Fink Brau will simply pocket extra profit. Thats it

    Higher price = Higher tax = More money in the states coffers.

    Only they won't make more money as it will result in thousands crossing the border to stockpile booze and buying cheaper goods whilst up there.


  • #189
    Oodoov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭Oodoov


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The upset here at the increase in the price of alcohol is entertaining. You must all be drinking much more than you're letting on to here if it's going to financially impact upon you so much. Would you all be as upset about a similar increase in the price of, say, fruit or vegetables?

    I look forward to the endless AH threads with hilarious rhetoric about a nebulous "nanny state" (and whatever other rhetoric the British tabloids use) when the price of fruit increases - not!

    Tax the plebs and their crap diets. Extend it to fatty/sugary foods quickly. Look at it as pre-payment for treating their weakness and lack of self-discipline in the future in our already overstretched health system.

    Let them eat cheese.


  • #190
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In our post-truth world, many people have now made this claim here without citing any evidence. As I pointed out here, however, the international evidence says exactly the opposite: MUP works.

    Ohh look no it doesn't http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/


  • #191
    Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    bear1 wrote: »
    Jesus you're crap at this.

    So, you're also in denial of international recommendations on alcohol intake? Yes, it's a bit hard to ignore the evidence and spout all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense. You're an inspiration, though.


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  • #192
    Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange
    Posts: 0 ✭ Katelyn Bumpy Shortchange


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ohh look no it doesn't http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/

    I cite a medical study, and you cite... The Journal.

    I am impressed.
    Longitudinal estimates suggest that a 10% increase in the minimum price of an alcoholic beverage reduced its consumption relative to other beverages by 16.1% (P < 0.001). Time–series estimates indicate that a 10% increase in minimum prices reduced consumption of spirits and liqueurs by 6.8% (P = 0.004), wine by 8.9% (P = 0.033), alcoholic sodas and ciders by 13.9% (P = 0.067), beer by 1.5% (P = 0.043) and all alcoholic drinks by 3.4% (P = 0.007).


  • #193
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    bear1 wrote: »
    And here we have it. Here is exactly how the government debates these idiotic ideas.
    Introduce it ta fcuk and then let's see in 10 years.
    In the meantime normal drinkers have to get roggered blind with the costs.

    Roggered blind?

    You must be drinking vast quantities of cheap alcohol.


  • #194
    Oodoov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭Oodoov


    People drink alcohol because they enjoy it. Guess what? Being drunk can be fun, and having a beer, a short or a glass of wine after work can help us unwind and relax. Everybody knows this, yet the debate that is taking place seems to ignore this fact altogether and focus on the minority of idiots that cause trouble when drunk.


  • #195
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I cite a medical study, and you cite... The Journal.

    I am impressed.

    Yes a critical view of said medical study, which links to other things that point out the large flaws in the statistical modeling that was used when analysing the results of the study

    The medical study proves nothing and is again 1 study which the results of were nowhere near conclusive and whos entire statistics model has been quite roundly criticised as being over simplistic and assuming far too much of peoples reactions to MUP

    The authors of the report present a number of limitations in section 4.2. In the
    section on consumption they fail to mention sampling variation, variability of
    individual consumption over time and response issues related to the surveys used.
    They do not mention the assumptions required in constructing the relationship
    between the price distribution and the consumption values of the respondents to
    the surveys.
    In the section on elasticities they acknowledge that there is no detailed longitudinal
    study of purchase and consumption of alcohol, and that the methodology may be
    inadequate (p. 99).
    In section 4.2.2 they acknowledge considerable uncertainty regarding the
    relationship between alcohol and crime, but do not mention the difficulties associated
    with quantifying risk functions for the Scottish population for other consequences.
    The above is not an exhaustive list of the difficulties associated with the SAPM, but
    demonstrate that the results of the model reflect speculation (or assumptions) made
    regarding the model components. No degree of statistical confidence can be placed
    in the values produced. The models relating health consequences to consumption
    cannot be considered reliable as they are based almost entirely on assumptions
    with no direct individual level data relating consumption and consequences. They
    are not fit for the purpose of estimating rates of consequences, far less changes in
    these following policy changes.


  • #196
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    People comparing the price of alcohol here with Spain or Germany are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    Irish people cannot be trusted with cheap drink. It's an undeniable fact.
    Attend any Christmas party with a free bar and have a look around at the end of the night. Most people will be pissed out of their heads.

    So you've never been to a German wedding or Christmas party. I can assure you everyone will be well on it. The difference is that they are not racing against the clock and not throwing it back in a short period of time. Makes a huge difference, plus you won't have everyone falling out onto the streets and fighting over taxis and fast food at the same time. People just finish up when they feel like it and it makes things a lot more civilised.


  • #197
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Nobody is raising taxes. This is just a price increase. There is no monetary benefit to the state in this.

    Fink Brau will simply pocket extra profit. Thats it

    It might as well be a tax, its taking extra money from peoples pockets


  • #198
    nerobert
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭nerobert


    The price of alcohol won't affect alcoholics who purchase it in excess.


  • #199
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    The way these poll options are worded, the poll is basically two Strawmen kicking the shit out of each other. It needs a "No, because I find such a thing abhorrent and it won't help in any way with whatever drink-related problems we have!" option, at least. :pac:


  • #200
    Kolten Most Peddle
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kolten Most Peddle


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Roggered blind?

    You must be drinking vast quantities of cheap alcohol.

    It doesn't matter how much you are drinking, we are already considerably overpaying for alcohol in this country as things are never mind if this comes in.

    Minimum price of 24 cabs will be 48 euro, feck off when I can get the same 24 for 24 euro now (or even 20 euro in the run up to Christmas). That's 24 extra euro out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, just because some idiot thought this was a good idea even though it will make no difference except leave me with 24 euro less to save or spend on other things.

    It won't take a person drinking much before its worth their while taking a spin up to the north and filling the boot with cans if we are going to have a minimum price of 48 euro for even the cheapest 24 cans*.

    *I don't buy the cheapest I buy the ones I like, they just happen to be one of the cheaper ones.


  • #201
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,373 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    jester77 wrote: »
    So you've never been to a German wedding or Christmas party. I can assure you everyone will be well on it. The difference is that they are not racing against the clock and not throwing it back in a short period of time. Makes a huge difference, plus you won't have everyone falling out onto the streets and fighting over taxis and fast food at the same time. People just finish up when they feel like it and it makes things a lot more civilised.
    I am for a minimum price for alcohol, but I do agree with you that set opening hours for pubs needs to be abolished.


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  • #202
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »
    It doesn't matter how much you are drinking, we are already considerably overpaying for alcohol in this country as things are never mind if this comes in.

    Minimum price of 24 cabs will be 48 euro, feck off when I can get the same 24 for 24 euro now (or even 20 euro in the run up to Christmas). That's 24 extra euro out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, just because some idiot thought this was a good idea even though it will make no difference except leave me with 24 euro less to save or spend on other things.

    It won't take a person drinking much before its worth their while taking a spin up to the north and filling the boot with cans if we are going to have a minimum price of 48 euro for even the cheapest 24 cans*.

    *I don't buy the cheapest I buy the ones I like, they just happen to be one of the cheaper ones.

    Also that extra euro on a can isnt even all going to the government, only the tax on that euro is.

    Added onto that theres zero guarantee due to how our pork barrel tax pot works that any extra raised will even go anywhere near tackling alcohol problems.


  • #203
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »
    It doesn't matter how much you are drinking, we are already considerably overpaying for alcohol in this country as things are never mind if this comes in.

    Minimum price of 24 cabs will be 48 euro, feck off when I can get the same 24 for 24 euro now (or even 20 euro in the run up to Christmas). That's 24 extra euro out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, just because some idiot thought this was a good idea even though it will make no difference except leave me with 24 euro less to save or spend on other things.
    s

    You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
    Hardly.
    No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

    €2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.


  • #204
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So, you're also in denial of international recommendations on alcohol intake? Yes, it's a bit hard to ignore the evidence and spout all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense. You're an inspiration, though.

    Unsubstantiated? Haha speaks the person who can't provide evidence to back up the hundreds dead each year thanks to this and the massive amount of work days lost.


  • #205
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
    Hardly.
    No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

    €2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

    2e a can is cheap?


  • #206
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
    Hardly.
    No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

    €2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

    Nothing stopping you from paying it, just don't force the rest of us to pay it


  • #207
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    Nothing stopping you from paying it, just don't force the rest of us to pay it

    Ah now come on, no-one is forced to buy alcohol, it's not like it's milk or bread we're talking about here.

    As a smoker I'm sick of constant price rises in every budget but I'd never claim that I'm forced to buy them because I'm not, it's a choice.


  • #208
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    pilly wrote: »
    Ah now come on, no-one is forced to buy alcohol, it's not like it's milk or bread we're talking about here.

    As a smoker I'm sick of constant price rises in every budget but I'd never claim that I'm forced to buy them because I'm not, it's a choice.

    No but why force someone to pay €2 for a can when its 98c right now


  • #209
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Its a bit mad that 1 Liter of Smirnoff Vodka is going to cost €37 when its currently selling for €28 and its selling for £15 in the UK.

    Prices checked from tesco.ie vs tesco.co.uk

    Ireland already has much more expensive alcohol when compared to the UK/Europe.

    They keep saying that this will only effect the lower priced products such as the €1.20 can of **** beer which will be increased to about €2

    But i dont consider a bottle of vodka for €28 to be anything on the lower scale of things.


  • #210
    Kolten Most Peddle
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kolten Most Peddle


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
    Hardly.
    No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

    €2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

    24 euro for 20 euro would be rare nowadays normally the best you will get is 24 for 24. This is far more expensive than many other European countries.

    2 euro a can is not cheap enough, its far too expensive imo for standard mass produced larger (craft beer or microbrewry stuff will be more expensive of course).

    When I drink in the house or someone else's house the aim is for it to be inexpensive compared to a normal night out and I'm sorry but 2euro a can is too much when you drink a good few cans of a night. I can easily afford 2 euro by the way but why should I have to pay it, its total nonsense. I should be able to drink what I want without being extorted by an artificially high price, if it were in some other situation it would be called a cartell and be illegal.


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  • #211
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
    Hardly.
    No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

    €2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

    LOL comparing consumption levels to the 60's your really desperate now. Should we go back to using abacuses and women being property of their husbands too?

    Also they didnt quadruple, they just about tripled, in 1961 they were 4.9 and at the peak in 2001 they were recorded at 14.5. To triple they would need to have hit 14.7

    Since 2001 they have dropped to 10.6 in 2013 which is the last verified number.


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