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Are Trump and Brexit "Archduke Ferdinand" moments?

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  • Here's hoping that by the time it starts, I'm too old to be drafted into the military.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    mariaalice wrote: »
    What about the Bosnian Wars, that was a war in Europe.

    People's imaginations are running away with them re Trump.

    The Yugoslav wars don't compare to any of the major ones listed above


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Bonaparted


    Shenshen wrote: »

    I'm kind of hoping that Brexit and Trump might make a larger number of people aware again of what our parents and grandparents built here, and how much it's worth continuing and protecting.

    Yes, it's the open border extremists and diversity darlings who want to give it away. There would be no Brexit or Trump if it were not for mass immigration.




  • World war two didn't start because Hitler was taking over territory or killing Jews. In fact world leaders could not care less about that.
    Remember this saying; 'Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.'
    Or who is in any form of power.

    Some of the first things Hitler did in territories he took control over was dismantle their central banks. There were hundreds of billions at stake and it was going to cost a hundred million lives to get them back. That's why the second world war happened. If Hitler was happy for money to be issued out of thin air at interest, he'd have been in power, killing Jews in Germany until the 80s.

    So, is anything money related happening now, that could start a war? Well look at Russia, they've been crushed under sanctions for the ladt few years now. Why?
    Is it because of the brouhaha in Ukraine? Their actions in Syria?
    No. Russia is moving rapidly towards dumping the dollar for it's oil. It will want Roubles only, and likely yuan. Making their resources much cheaper than anything stuck to the high value dollar.

    This is a direct threat to the hegemony that is the world reserve currency.
    As long as countries sell oil in dollars, countries have to buy dollars in order to buy oil. This makes demand for dollars which makes their value.
    Without it, the dollar is finished. It's a matter of survival now, that Americans crush anyone who threatens that hegemony.
    Like Saddam Hussein.
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro%253F0p19G%253De&ved=0ahUKEwiR9qStjajQAhVKDsAKHaRlChsQFggoMAA&usg=AFQjCNENKp9gmns0--f9lpn1cV5o3BhZQg
    Or Gaddafi.
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/apr/21/libya-muammar-gaddafi%253F0p19G%253De&ved=0ahUKEwjEh7njjajQAhXMLsAKHeo1DrsQFghhMAQ&usg=AFQjCNH9-WtoSXOFW_zyz_nme-e2HAJhEg
    Or Assad.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11894.htm
    Seeing a pattern yet? ;)
    Good, because it's the reason many leaders have been "overthrown"...

    Russia is a much bigger, much more powerful country. It's going to take a much bigger, much more powerful war.
    The power of the banks!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    I love both Trump and Brexit as it will lead to millions of civil servants losing their "jobs" and returning them to the evolutionary madate they were designed for: monkey organ griders and sucking cocks for loose change in bus station toilets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    World war two didn't start because Hitler was taking over territory or killing Jews. In fact world leaders could not care less about that.
    Remember this saying; 'Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.'
    Or who is in any form of power.

    Some of the first things Hitler did in territories he took control over was dismantle their central banks. There were hundreds of billions at stake and it was going to cost a hundred million lives to get them back. That's why the second world war happened. If Hitler was happy for money to be issued out of thin air at interest, he'd have been in power, killing Jews in Germany until the 80s.

    So, is anything money related happening now, that could start a war? Well look at Russia, they've been crushed under sanctions for the ladt few years now. Why?
    Is it because of the brouhaha in Ukraine? Their actions in Syria?
    No. Russia is moving rapidly towards dumping the dollar for it's oil. It will want Roubles only, and likely yuan. Making their resources much cheaper than anything stuck to the high value dollar.

    This is a direct threat to the hegemony that is the world reserve currency.
    As long as countries sell oil in dollars, countries have to buy dollars in order to buy oil. This makes demand for dollars which makes their value.
    Without it, the dollar is finished. It's a matter of survival now, that Americans crush anyone who threatens that hegemony.
    Like Saddam Hussein.
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro%253F0p19G%253De&ved=0ahUKEwiR9qStjajQAhVKDsAKHaRlChsQFggoMAA&usg=AFQjCNENKp9gmns0--f9lpn1cV5o3BhZQg
    Or Gaddafi.
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/apr/21/libya-muammar-gaddafi%253F0p19G%253De&ved=0ahUKEwjEh7njjajQAhXMLsAKHeo1DrsQFghhMAQ&usg=AFQjCNH9-WtoSXOFW_zyz_nme-e2HAJhEg
    Or Assad.
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11894.htm
    Seeing a pattern yet? ;)
    Good, because it's the reason many leaders have been "overthrown"...

    Russia is a much bigger, much more powerful country. It's going to take a much bigger, much more powerful war.

    This is a little pet peeve of mine, primarily because I think it violates the old razor of not ascribing to malevolence what can more easily be explained by incompetence. I've made a few posts debunking the old 'Libyan Gold Dinar' canard but I would encourage everyone inclined to believe in these things to have a little more scepticism and dig around a little more. If anything all this talk of a looming war with Russia puts me in mind of all the talk about a looming war with Iran in the late 2000s which seemed 'so obvious' to people, or again talk of the Euro's imminent collapse by talking heads in Britain in the early 2010s. It's easy to look to these complex machinations as a means of throwing up ones hand and going 'oh well', but I think it behoves citizens of a nation to reject military action on its own terms, rather than just writing it all off as scheming bankers.

    Also the 'Let me issue' quote is a corruption of an earlier quote about Ballads 'If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    This is a little pet peeve of mine, primarily because I think it violates the old razor of not ascribing to malevolence what can more easily be explained by incompetence. I've made a few posts debunking the old 'Libyan Gold Dinar' canard but I would encourage everyone inclined to believe in these things to have a little more scepticism and dig around a little more. If anything all this talk of a looming war with Russia puts me in mind of all the talk about a looming war with Iran in the late 2000s which seemed 'so obvious' to people, or again talk of the Euro's imminent collapse by talking heads in Britain in the early 2010s. It's easy to look to these complex machinations as a means of throwing up ones hand and going 'oh well', but I think it behoves citizens of a nation to reject military action on its own terms, rather than just writing it all off as scheming bankers.

    Also the 'Let me issue' quote is a corruption of an earlier quote about Ballads 'If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation'.

    I don't put full stock into everything in those links, but the common pattern of leaders going against the interests of international finance and suddenly having to have their countries "freedomed" is undeniable.
    Every major conflict has been a bankers conflict since banks figured out they could fund all sides of the Napoleonic Wars so that no matter who lost, they won.

    Rejection of military action is important, but it is absolutely for the interest of global banking cabals that most major military actions occur.
    If people stop demanding the U.S Dollar for their resources, the U.S Dollar is finished.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭Deub


    There is nothing better for the economy that a good war. The one you do in your own country. It means less people, everything to rebuild so everyone is busy and all people want is a better life for the next generation.
    Also wars always accelerated discoveries (new killing machine, bomb) that will then be used for civilian stuffs.
    So if the economy doesn't grow fast enough that is what will happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I don't expect either Trump or Brexit to have a major impact. The globalisation agenda is too ingrained. Society is heading in directions that many people are uncomfortable with and feel they have no control over. Maybe the Brexit and Trump results will increase awareness among citizens that they can influence the future of our societies.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    No.

    Bin Laden attacked America
    America responded
    America responded some more.
    Unrest went throughout the middle East.
    Civil Wars took place.
    Merkel invited everyone to the Europe.
    Europe Revolted against the liberals
    TBC


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    I don't put full stock into everything in those links, but the common pattern of leaders going against the interests of international finance and suddenly having to have their countries "freedomed" is undeniable.
    Every major conflict has been a bankers conflict since banks figured out they could fund all sides of the Napoleonic Wars so that no matter who lost, they won.

    Rejection of military action is important, but it is absolutely for the interest of global banking cabals that most major military actions occur.
    If people stop demanding the U.S Dollar for their resources, the U.S Dollar is finished.

    I think 'leaders of international finance' might be going a bit far down the rabbit hole. I mean as far back as the Seven Years War the ability of nations (like Britain) to raise capital to fund wartime expenditure was a major advantage over nations that could not (France) but one has to have a very narrow view of history to portray every subsequent war as some kind of international banking ploy.

    I might be able to offer something of a consolation, because certainly I believe its clearly documented that major industrial groups are quite eager to see things like military assistance to Israel because a large slice of that comes back to them in terms of procurement orders. Yet I still feel the notion of international business with sufficient agency to start wars is just a bit beyond the pale.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    I would say that actually the election of Trump and Brexit are pulling us away from conflict.


  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    ClovenHoof wrote:
    I love both Trump and Brexit as it will lead to millions of civil servants losing their "jobs" and returning them to the evolutionary madate they were designed for: monkey organ griders and sucking cocks for loose change in bus station toilets.

    Don't worry when the gates of hell open they'll make sure there's a front row seat for ya with priority boarding on one of Micks planes. A good culling of private sector fodder & peasants is what's needed, like that scene in toy story 3, slow and methodical squeezing out ever last ounce of fear :P


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    I would say that actually the election of Trump and Brexit are pulling us away from conflict.

    In a different, calmer world they might.

    The more I watch what Trumps actual plans seem to be, the more I get the feeling that what we're about to see is the USA retreating into isolationism.
    It would leave a vacuum on the world stage, and as nature abhors a vacuum, one or more other nations or blocks would end up filling that.
    The question is who, and what will their motives and goals be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,688 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Time will tell. Given his history you would be a fool to be surprised by it.

    So no actual policy then....

    Just throw out a few slurs and hope they gain some traction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Sadly it does look like history is repeating itself, 29 crash/08 crash, rise of right in the 30's/ rise of the right in the 10's, 40's kaboom/20's ?????????


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Sadly it does look like history is repeating itself, 29 crash/08 crash, rise of right in the 30's/ rise of the right in the 10's, 40's kaboom/20's ?????????

    Well, we're not there yet. And right now, there's still plenty that can happen and be done to make sure that it won't end the same way.

    Same as there was plenty that could have been done in the 30s.
    In a way, the thought of the USA retreating isn't that unnerving in itself. My concern is what the rest of the world may or may not get up to.
    Putin violating international borders is unsettling, but I suspect his reach is limited. Russia's economy and finances wouldn't stretch very far if faced with actual opposition, I don't think.

    And naive, hopeful little me likes to think that after generations of collaboration, Europe's countries are unlikely to be at each others' throats again at the drop of a hat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I hope you're right, I really do. Antics of some current world leaders is unnerving. Some dangerous weirdos on this planet, and some of them are in positions of great power


  • Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Beanntraigheach


    Bring it on, I say.
    It'll make the news more interesting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    Bin Laden attacked America America responded America responded some more. Unrest went throughout the middle East. Civil Wars took place. Merkel invited everyone to the Europe. Europe Revolted against the liberals TBC
    Is that what they're teaching in the leaving cert now?? Lol.
    If you want to wind up your teacher give him a book on the cold war when the US & Soviets carved up the middle-east, mainly Pakistan/Afghanistan in the opium wars, very "Clones War-esque" that fired up Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith.. I mean the Taliban :)


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