Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee poll not working - pl ignore

ToBeFrank123 · 18-09-2019 10:38am

Boggles wrote: »

In terms of making money from competitions it was a perfect comparison.

What is a bad comparison is comparing a State Broadcaster in totality with one that isn't.

Silly really, you might as well have compared it with Netflix, which incidentally has been done more than once on this thread.

You are the one repeatedly saying RTE are a commercial entity. If they are, they are doing a terrible job at it.

Lyric FM as an example have a number of high paid presenters doing a job that could easily be automated. People largely only want to hear the music.

AndyBoBandy · 18-09-2019 10:41am

Boggles wrote: »

If it is pulling in circa 5 million a year, surely that is a good thing, no?

It is a good thing, but my point is they receive the licence fee, as well as their commercial revenue plus the additional income from these competitions, yet still operate at a loss. (I plucked €5m out of the air, it could be €2m, or it could be €20m, we don't know as they won't tell us because it's commercially sensitive!!)

They have additional sources of revenue that they will not disclose, yet still demand more.

How are independent broadcasters ever going to compete with that?

The J Stands for Jay · 18-09-2019 10:43am

tylercheribini wrote: »

With the amount of rights to sporting events theyve lost over the last few years, surely they should have a massive cost surplus in that area, never gets mentioned.

They have said they've reduced their operational costs..

Boggles · 18-09-2019 10:43am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You are the one repeatedly saying RTE are a commercial entity. If they are, they are doing a terrible job at it.

RTE are a state broadcast with a commercial arm and a remit to make money to offset costs.

They are bound by terms and conditions re programming that private operators in other countries why are not.

The comparison is nonsensical.

The J Stands for Jay · 18-09-2019 10:43am

Boggles wrote: »

I don't really see the problem, how they are any different to the likes of Virgin, Channel 4 or ITV?

Their remit is to earn money to offset costs.

If it is pulling in circa 5 million a year, surely that is a good thing, no?

I agree with you here, this is a good thing that they should be doing. Even better if the show has a sponsor that give them the prize.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 10:45am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

How are independent broadcasters ever going to compete with that?

Sky seem to be doing all right, as do Netflix, as do the whole weight of British television beemed for free into Ireland the past 20+ years.

I think you are looking at it arséways.

How is the State Broadcaster supposed to compete with all that should be the question posed. IMHO.

ToBeFrank123 · 18-09-2019 10:50am

Boggles wrote: »

In terms of making money from competitions it was a perfect comparison.

What is a bad comparison is comparing a State Broadcaster in totality with one that isn't.

Silly really, you might as well have compared it with Netflix, which incidentally has been done more than once on this thread.

RTEs job is to make money, we are agreed on that. Its also their job not to waste money by sending massive numbers of staff to events like the Ploughing Championship with duplication of roles. This is an example of waste.

They are also clearly using licence fee money to supplement presenters salaries, paying them well above the going rate for similar roles in Ireland. The market is not dictating salaries at RTE, salaries are dictated by RTEs advantage with the Licence fee.

The J Stands for Jay · 18-09-2019 10:52am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

ITV made a massive profit this year. A bad comparison.

These companies are commercial entities who know how to make money in good times and bad by offering TV content that people want to watch.

RTE should try it sometime.

Its not as if RTE programs are hugely expensive to produce. Most of them are based on guests from the canteen or radio shows like Liveline.

Its mystifying why RTE cannot turn a profit.

From their annual report, it looks like their own programmes are massively more expensive than their bought in stuff.

The J Stands for Jay · 18-09-2019 10:53am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It is a good thing, but my point is they receive the licence fee, as well as their commercial revenue plus the additional income from these competitions, yet still operate at a loss. (I plucked €5m out of the air, it could be €2m, or it could be €20m, we don't know as they won't tell us because it's commercially sensitive!!)

They have additional sources of revenue that they will not disclose, yet still demand more.

How are independent broadcasters ever going to compete with that?

If they make a loss on those competitions...

Beta Ray Bill · 18-09-2019 10:54am

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry who exactly is forcing you to have equipment capable of receiving RTE?.

In 2019, this has to be the loosest criteria for Tax in Ireland (If not Europe)

Every single device out there is "Smart" now and it capable of viewing RTE.

RTE are clearly concerned now as they realise the government isn't going to come in with a magic wand and make all their debt disappear.
The poll on this thread also shows that Joe Public is fed up with RTE and over 95% believe changes are needed.
There will be an election very soon and no party want something like a "Media Tax" as part of there election campaign.

RTE needs to cut it's cloth, it's that simple.
They want to sell even more land now to just "pay wages" instead of making people redundant or investing in new kit. IE it's dead money.

They have 6 TV channels, 10 Radio Stations, 2 Orchestras, 2 Choirs and Vanbrugh Quartet

We really don't need all that!!!!

Boggles · 18-09-2019 10:58am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

RTEs job is to make money, we are agreed on that. Its also their job not to waste money by sending massive numbers of staff to events like the Ploughing Championship with duplication of roles. This is an example of waste.

Again as I have all ready pointed out to you more than once, how do you know that not sending sponsored shows to Irelands largest event wouldn't have cost them commercial revenue?

An answer this time would be nice.

Doblin · 18-09-2019 10:58am

I'm kind of surprised that the government didn't cave in and give RTE the 55 million licence fee increase that they want, because the government caved in quickly for an post when they came looking for a stamp price increase.

AndyBoBandy · 18-09-2019 11:01am

Boggles wrote: »

Sky seem to be doing all right, as do Netflix

Both subscription services that rely on subscriptions as their main source of income.
Also the British TV argument is also invalid as they are in a market with 60 million people (we have less than 10% of this), so the commercial revenue streams open to them are 10 times higher than in Ireland.

So both examples are completely irrelevant in this discussion.

tylercheribini · 18-09-2019 11:01am

Doblin wrote: »

I'm kind of surprised that the government didn't cave in and give RTE the 55 million licence fee increase that they want, because the government caved in quickly for an post when they came looking for a stamp price increase.

In fairness though with An Post they did make some extremely unpopular cuts in return, RTE are still clinging for dear life to their sacred cows.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:02am

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

In 2019, this has to be the loosest criteria for Tax in Ireland (If not Europe)

Every single device out there is "Smart" now and it capable of viewing RTE.

No they aren't.

You only pay a license if you have a device with a tuner capable of decoding the terrestrial signal used by RTE.

If you do not have one of these you can fill out a form saying you are exempt.

Having access to the RTE player or the RTE website does not mean you need to have a license.

So if you don't have the ability to use the service, you don't pay, so no you don't go to jail like the poster claimed.

That is the law as it stands, now they have been touting a law change for the past 5 years which I am firmly against, because it does not give the option for someone to opt out.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:04am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Both subscription services that rely on subscriptions as their main source of income.
Also the British TV argument is also invalid as they are in a market with 60 million people (we have less than 10% of this), so the commercial revenue streams open to them are 10 times higher than in Ireland.

So both examples are completely irrelevant in this discussion.

Okay forget online streaming and Sky.

In terms of who is competing with who.

15-20 odd billion of free television beamed into Ireland for the past 2 decades plus is irrelevant?

Seriously?

You honestly think the independent operator here is only competing with RTE?

marcos_94 · 18-09-2019 11:09am

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry who exactly is forcing you to have equipment capable of receiving RTE?.

What a mad comment? The new TV license (household charges) theyre proposing defines any screened device over 10" to be capable of receiving RTE. So what now? If you dont like RTE and dont want to pay your TV license, or whatever they will call it, you cant have a tablet, laptop, tv, projector, etc. Maybe theyll start charging new cars a TV license because they have internet access and screens??

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:10am

marcos_94 wrote: »

What a mad comment? The new TV license (household charges) theyre proposing definitions consider any screened device over 10" to be capable of receiving RTE. So what now? If you dont like RTE and dont want to pay your TV license, or whatever they will call it, you cant have a tablet, laptop, tv, projector, etc. Maybe theyll start charging new cars a TV license because they have internet access and screens??

The Actual Law > Proposals.

You do know the difference right?

AndyBoBandy · 18-09-2019 11:13am

Boggles wrote: »

You honestly think the independent operator here is only competing with RTE?

Did I say that? And you assume I'm only talking about TV?

But lets say we are just talking TV, of course all Irish broadcasters are competing with all the external stuff (streaming & British), but RTÉ have such a head start against fellow Irish broadcasters, yet still can't make it work.

It is a cesspit of wastage from a bygone era, the sooner it gets what it needs the better.

What it needs is a complete overhaul from top to bottom, overseen by an independent body with no attachment to government or RTÉ itself.

marcos_94 · 18-09-2019 11:14am

Boggles wrote: »

The Actual Law > Proposals.

You do know the difference right?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0802/1066568-rte-tv-licence-fee-reform/

there you go. Great snarky comment

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:19am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Did I say that?

Ah yeah, you said the fact that we have availed of a dozen or so channels free from the Britain for the past 2 decades was an invalid argument.

It's not, it's one of the reasons RTE are struggling and in some ways TBH have done semi-well when you add Sky as well.

But I fully agree. RTE should be making a profit 3 years out of every 5 and breaking even the next 2.

I think the organisation has to be gone through line by line to cut costs and if still isn't breaking even I would support a modest increase in the fee.

I wouldn't completely rule out what Forbes is saying either, she is the first external appointment to the role AFAIK and she came with some pedigree.

Personally I see an opportunity here for RTE. Streaming services are going to each other alive in the 5 years, so there is a gap coming that RTE can fit into if they are clever.

ToBeFrank123 · 18-09-2019 11:22am

Boggles wrote: »

Again as I have all ready pointed out to you more than once, how do you know that not sending sponsored shows to Irelands largest event wouldn't have cost them commercial revenue?

An answer this time would be nice.

You tell us how RTE made or might make money from the ploughing championships.

You are only going to dismiss anything I say.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:22am

marcos_94 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0802/1066568-rte-tv-licence-fee-reform/

there you go. Great snarky comment

Jesus, did you read the piece?

They will make it law in 5 years, they were saying 5 years ago as well.

What is the actual law now?

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:24am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You tell us how RTE made or might make money from the ploughing championships.

I have all ready told you how they might. The shows are blocked sponsors. It's not a new or unique phenomena.

What I want to know is how you know for definite they will make a loss?

marcos_94 · 18-09-2019 11:29am

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus, did you read the piece?

They will make it law in 5 years, they were saying 5 years ago as well.

What is the actual law now?

So because its in 5 years time its irrelevant here? Do you understand the concept of future planning and looking ahead? Maybe 5 years is too far away for you to consider still being around.
The whole point of bringing it up was to highlight that there will be no escaping having to pay for RTE

ToBeFrank123 · 18-09-2019 11:29am

Boggles wrote: »

I have all ready told you how they might. The shows are blocked sponsors. It's not a new or unique phenomena.

What I want to know is how you know for definite they will make a loss?

Which shows? Which sponsors?

Is Morning Ireland sponsored? The News? Weather?

Who are the sponsors?

Why can't they send one reporter, one editor and one producer to the Ploughing who can report back for every program?

Instead they send down dozens, each one duplicating what the others are doing down there and also duplicating what is being done back in RTE HQ.

There is absolutely no way a fully commercial broadcaster would get away with this waste of resources. RTE are p*ssing away money hand over fist, hence the financial disaster they have become.

begsbyOnaTrain · 18-09-2019 11:32am

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

If you want to see just how successful RTE is, just think of the following: how many hit shows can you name, which they've made and nurtured, which have penetrated the British market? I mean it's a massive tv market with a shared language right on our doorstep. If RTE really is doing a great job and helping the Irish entertainment industry, then this should be a doddle... *cough*

A friend pointed out that NZ (or Oz) bought Love/Hate. And I really liked that up to season 3. Didn't break anywhere else though. So you have that and... the lyrics board format did well, didn't it? What a stellar record.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:39am

marcos_94 wrote: »

So because its in 5 years time its irrelevant here? Do you understand the concept of future planning and looking ahead? Maybe 5 years is too far away for you to consider still being around.
The whole point of bringing it up was to highlight that there will be no escaping having to pay for RTE

What is only relevant to what you quoted is the law as it stands now, you do understand right?

Kite flying for 5 years time is not the law, the same kite was flown 5 years ago by Pat Rabbitte.

We have no idea who the government will be next Spring let alone in 5 years time.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Which shows? Which sponsors?

Is Morning Ireland sponsored? The News? Weather?

Who are the sponsors?

I have no idea, I don't listen to them. You tell me you are the one who has.

But I would be shocked if wasn't The Turbidy Show at the Ploughing brought to you by X Company.

Again though, you are intentionally avoiding the question, how do you know for definite that they will make a loss from it?

The J Stands for Jay · 18-09-2019 11:39am

Boggles wrote: »

Sky seem to be doing all right, as do Netflix, as do the whole weight of British television beemed for free into Ireland the past 20+ years.

I think you are looking at it arséways.

How is the State Broadcaster supposed to compete with all that should be the question posed. IMHO.

They shouldn't be competing with that, but the problem is that they try to compete. I don't want rte to be showing home and away and Friends. I would prefer a much smaller enterprise, putting out Irish programmes and programme of Irish interest. Their funding should be enough to cover their public service obligations. If it isnt, it should be looked at both from looking at their own costs and looking at the obligations being reasonable for the funding. Anything commercial should be able to pay for itself, and preferably make a profit. If there is an overall shortfall, then cuts should be made, like in any other reasonable organisation.

Their own financial report makes it impossible to see if this is the case. Given the reports of the salaries of their top 10 earners, of course the public's ire will focus on that. If anecdotal reports of the salaries for all roles are true, them it's a disgrace.

If cuts are needed, 2fm has to be first to go. No public broadcasting remit there, it's covered by commercial stations all over the country, and it's loss making. Lots of talk about lyric. If there's no public obligation, then it needs to be looked at. Are the presenters being paid too much, production costs too high? Fix them. I'm not too sure about the digital radio stations either. They should likely go after a review.

Boggles · 18-09-2019 11:40am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There is absolutely no way a fully commercial broadcaster would get away with this waste of resources..

The BBC send a large portion of their Radio Presenters and Producers to Glastonbury every year for the full 4 days plus.

Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

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Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee poll not working - pl ignore