Making things better: your input is needed!

fitz · 21-05-2009 3:03pm #1

Ok, there've been discussions in the last number of days about the faults and perception of this forum.

Myself and Frobisher are working on some things in the background, but I'd like to use what DeV has been referring to as the "network brain" and get ideas and input from you guys, the users and contributors on this forum.

Without getting personal, I'd like to hear what you guys think isn't working, what is working, what you'd like to see more off, etc...

I'm not promising that everything posted here will be put in place, but everything will be looked at and considered.

Over to you!

DamagedTrax · 21-05-2009 3:09pm

personally i think, that when someone starts a thread about recording costs we should be allowed to pitch our prices without the fear of being banned. surely this forum can be a place to try get work aswell as learning?

maybe have a rule. you pitch your own price and who you've worked with and thats it. if the OP wants to get in touch then its up to them if they feel like it.

the only option at the moment is pm'ing the OP and im not crazy about that as they might not want a flood of messages from a bunch of jokers like ourselves.

im not talking about advertisements from studios or engineers, just replies to people looking for us.

fitz · 21-05-2009 3:14pm

Trax, thanks for the input.
We're looking at a way to make commercial interaction easier, but without it turning the forum into a shilling-ground. What we have in mind should more than cover what you're talking about.

Keep it coming folks!

DamagedTrax · 21-05-2009 3:15pm

cool. in the mean time are we allowed to answers these types of posts in a commercial way?

fitz · 21-05-2009 3:18pm

I would suggest leaving the commercials (price) out of any response.
Tell the user what you can for them, who you've worked with, whatever, and that they can PM you if they're interested in working with you. Leaves it up to them.

DamagedTrax · 21-05-2009 3:31pm

sound

jtsuited · 21-05-2009 3:40pm

Seeing as I dished out a good bit of negativity about the forum, I may as well chime in (by the way I find this forum very good excepting the issues I raised):

Suggestion 1: Stickied OffTopic thread similar to the 'badbeat/moaning/venting' thread in poker. For all video links, interviews, and other stuff that might be of interest to users but not directly involving any of the forum's members.

Suggestion 2 : Zero tolerance of condescension (and this coming from me, the irony!) to those less experienced. I think it's fairly obvious the perceived vibe of the place turned away a good few users because of this.

Using status or experience as the fundamental basis for argument (while sometimes being relevant) is really just a pain in the hole, because for every 'respected' opinion of someone, there is someone more experienced and who has achieved more with a differing one.

This is especially relevant regarding the dance music heads, as a large part of the electronic music 'ethos' (and many of the avant-garde arts) is based around a certain ambivalence (and some would say contempt) towards what is standard method, what has been done in the past, and conformist concepts like 'industry standards'.

A more open-minded approach to why different people are here. I may have mentioned this before but because we're into Music Production does not necessarily mean we give two hoots about the 'Music Business' (says he with a record deal, a manager, etc.).

I was very dissappointed reading the 'Let's hear your music thread'. I'm a firm believer in total honesty with people (even more so if it's honest criticism), but there is such a thing as tact, and believe it or not people are very shy and have fragile egos.

As far as I can see, there is far too much of a 'standards' based vibe around here. Rather than conversations of 'what's good, what's bad' maybe there should be more 'whatever you're into, cool, let us know if you have any questions we might be able to help answering'.

There is nothing more common in this world than unknown massively talented people. I think in many ways the general vibe of this forum up until now has done little to change that fact.

Jaysus I better stop now before I ramble any more!

TelePaul · 21-05-2009 6:48pm

I agree with pretty much everything jtsuited said, but will add the following.

I've argued with some of the guys to a stand-still about the shift from amateur to pro recording, but I've also seen newbies treated with derision - two very seperate issues there, and I feel the modding was very poor on both counts.

DamagedTrax · 21-05-2009 6:49pm

TelePaul wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything jtsuited said, but will add the following.

I've argued with some of the guys to a stand-still about the shift from amateur to pro recording, but I've also seen newbies treated with derision - two very seperate issues there, and I feel the modding was very poor on both counts.

gotta agree. theres a few too many smart comments thrown about the place by certain individuals when all thats wanted by a newbie is an answer.

dav nagle · 21-05-2009 8:21pm

Way too many discussions based on the past in my opinion. I am a futurist so many might believe the past is equally important and I respect that but every five minutes a topic is posted and it feels like the musical trivia debate and music production forums (hence 'and music production forums'). I whole heartedly agree that good honest feedback will do you me and the rest of the world good but slamming someone for common rookie audio errors is totally mean and unnecessary. I think a dance sub forum would be cool even though it is not my forte, it would put all the infected into one nicely quarantined area, every now and then I would jump in and learn something no doubt, maybe even drop a few bubble loves with the dance forum! I like seeing people getting banned for promoting their studios without reading the charter I don’t like the idea of studios competing in any way other than a PM or a recommendation. That is about it, still the forum is good fun, full of great contacts and good people who all share a similar interest in audio editing and production.

Beruthiel · 21-05-2009 8:25pm

TelePaul wrote: »

I've argued with some of the guys to a stand-still about the shift from amateur to pro recording, but I've also seen newbies treated with derision - two very seperate issues there, and I feel the modding was very poor on both counts.

I expect that this will no longer happen.
If it does, do not be afraid to report it so it can be acted upon.

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 8:30pm

dav nagle wrote: »

Way too many discussions based on the past in my opinion.

History is what educates you Grasshopper. Most notably by helping you not make mistakes of the past.

As an old timer you see the cycles that popular-music takes - what's popular at any given time is usually related to what was popular 20 years(ish) before.

21-05-2009 8:37pm

Perhaps a dedicated Noob section? where those starting off can query set-ups and ask silly questions without fear of a slagging? - cause to be honest sometimes basic things catch me out and I'd feel a right ejit asking here!

21-05-2009 8:41pm

Anyway, yeah, back on topic..i dont think a seperate newbie section would do any good..I find sometimes the forum gets most interesting when its more technique discussed, rather than whatever fantastic new preamp or whatever..Perhaps a sub forum for paul and the lads, so they can amuse themselves looking at pics of expensive gear..

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 8:43pm

11811 wrote: »

Perhaps a dedicated Noob section? where those starting off can query set-ups and ask silly questions without fear of a slagging? - cause to be honest sometimes basic things catch me out and I'd feel a right ejit asking here!

I suggested this last year, I think it was.

I always felt and still do, that a Learner Slope would be good before the cut and thrust of the Black Slopes .... at the time the consensus was against that .

Perhaps the forum's view has changed on that?

However, I always try and answer lots of noobs questions unlike some of my experienced peers.

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 8:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps a sub forum for paul and the lads, so they can amuse themselves looking at pics of expensive gear..

I suggested that too before !

Why would we want to look at pictures when we have the real thng?;)

21-05-2009 8:47pm

yes I think i remember that, in fairness its a great opportunity for the less experienced to get good advice for you more experienced folk - but questions like "whats an M-box"* seem to get lost in the midst of discussions over the lastest SSL channel strip!

*I'm well aware!:pac:

jtsuited · 21-05-2009 8:51pm

If you haven't noticed Paul, most of the problems that have been outlined about this forum are actually about you.
So how about you cut your sh1t and we can all save the mods a whole load of bother?
I'm on your ignore list now though so maybe someone else can echo the sentiment.

fitz · 21-05-2009 8:59pm

Jt, your opinion is well known. One more comment and your gone for a break. Next post which isn't a suggest on how to improve the board will result in the same.

TelePaul · 21-05-2009 8:59pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

I expect that this will no longer happen.

Why not?

jtsuited · 21-05-2009 9:03pm

fitz wrote: »

Jt, your opinion is well known. One more comment and your gone for a break. Next post which isn't a suggest on how to improve the board will result in the same.

fair enough. that was a suggestion though.

edit: sh1t better post a suggestion:

maybe a weekly discussion sticky?
like a 'this week we be discussioning Parallel Compression'
Or 'this week......Workflow methods - are you a trooper or a passivist?' where we could all have a mighty aul discussion about our different work methods (cause everyone's got a different one).

A good few fellas will chime in with some valuable input, and over time these sticky's will be a great source of information. A way of clearly archiving useful knowledge and views imo.

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 9:07pm

I don't know how many MP Forum production members there actually are.

There certainly aren't too many regular posters.

Because of that perhaps we shouldn't be too hasty in slicing everything up?

However Sean does have a point regarding a Dance Music Production forum as it seems to me to have the least in common with 'general' Music Production.

21-05-2009 9:09pm

Could we split it into technique and equipment perhaps?..

21-05-2009 9:10pm

And there is already a dance/electronic and djing forum somewhere..

jtsuited · 21-05-2009 9:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And there is already a dance/electronic and djing forum somewhere..

ah jaysus where have you been the past few days???

love the sig btw.

so any takers on the weekly discussion topic stickies? Sort of an 'album of the week' (think that's what it's called on some of the music forums)type system.

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 9:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Could we split it into technique and equipment perhaps?..

Might be difficult as the 2 are so intertwined?

21-05-2009 9:21pm

Nah...
here's a compressor, see all its nice knobs..
and
This is how you might go about using a compressor..
See where im going with this?..

JTs idea about the sticky could be good..but for some reason im not too sure of i dont really like stickys?..i never read the things anyway..

TelePaul · 21-05-2009 9:43pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I always felt and still do, that a Learner Slope would be good before the cut and thrust of the Black Slopes .... at the time the consensus was against that .

To be fair Paul, I seem to remember advocating a more balanced approach to the forum - newbs and pros - and having that idea shot-down by yourself (amongst a great many others!). I'm not making this personal, but I think maybe we're all in danger of viewing things with rose-tinted glasses.

I'd love a sub-forum for newbies...I PM'd one guy to talk him through buying and setting up a cheap sound-card for his son when the best the MP forum could manage was "buy a Mac". Not to get into point-scoring, but I think a newb forum would be a good move.

squibs · 21-05-2009 9:50pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

I expect that this will no longer happen.If it does, do not be afraid to report it so it can be acted upon.

When was the last time, before this, that we had a woman posting in here? I can't be 100% that all the usual suspects are male, but I'm 99.9999%. More wimmins plz (happily married - just want the added dimension that the female perspective brings to a forum - AH would have spontaneously combusted years ago without it)
There is a certain amount of elitism, and I don't think it is intentional. If we do a pro/amateur forum split then the pros wont visit the amateur forum, and vice versa. Studiorat leads the way for helpful advice without attitude.
A little bit more activity based stuff can't hurt - and I know it has been tried before. I'm talking mix-offs, mix rescues, collaborations, etc.
Paul's been a gent - organising extracurricular activities, and pointing out valuable resources. More of that can't hurt, but the rest of us need to pipe up too. Remember when he offered to help set up Q&A sessions on boards with Irish producers? An excellent opportunity that fizzled due to lack of interest.

Some knowledgeable people on the forum are underappreciated!

oh - and no commercial posts under any circumstances please. Create a sticky with regular poster's rates if necessary.

Rockshamrover · 21-05-2009 9:55pm

I think the success of any forum depends on the input of it's members. Unfortunately not all members are equal and in the MP forum there can be extremes not usual in other forums on Boards. The Mac guys v the PC guys. The Pro Tools guys v the Logic guys. The Dance guys V to Rock guys.
Big studio v small studio v home studio. Given all of that though, we keep coming back and signing in so something is working.

Then there is the pro v the amateur. The guys with the knowledge don't necessarily want to come here to babysit the non pro's (I'm a non pro). That's perfectly reasonable tbh. Nobody here is obliged to do anything for anybody else but every day good things happen here and people get helped or pointed in the right direction.

I think all that missing is a bit of order. Everything gets lumped in together. There is no real focus on the different aspects of production. It's one big room full of people talking about whatever.

We need a few Germans around here.

PaulBrewer · 21-05-2009 10:27pm

TelePaul wrote: »

To be fair Paul, I seem to remember advocating a more balanced approach to the forum - newbs and pros - and having that idea shot-down by yourself (amongst a great many others!). I'm not making this personal, but I think maybe we're all in danger of viewing things with rose-tinted glasses.

I'd love a sub-forum for newbies...I PM'd one guy to talk him through buying and setting up a cheap sound-card for his son when the best the MP forum could manage was "buy a Mac". Not to get into point-scoring, but I think a newb forum would be a good move.

That's possible.

I remember thinking a 'Learner slope' within the main forum might be good rather that an entirely separate Forum.

Noobs helping Noobs might be a less than ideal basis for a forum.

However to make that decision we'd need stats, how many people post here, how many Noob questions etc.

I seem to think that every couple of days I answer a Noob question, so there does seem to be some pretty decent activity within that area and that might indicate that they don't feel unwelcome here..... but maybe there are many more Noobs who do feel that they don't want to post.

Do Mods have access to that info I wonder?

Making things better: your input is needed!

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