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The glorious 12th

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It is logical to support the Irish language as a way of maintaining our heritage.

    However the things we do - putting all signs in Irish, requiring court services to be provided in Irish, making the Irish version of legislation supreme, compulsory Irish in schools etc - they do nothing to support Irish, instead they create resentment against the language, they pigeon-hole it as a burden rather than a benefit.

    I don't think you know what you are talking about. Socio-linguistics is an acedemic field of research into the methods and policies of language revitalisation that are effective. Good luck finding any expert that would agree that increasing the status of a language by making public services available in that language, allowing access to justice through a language and porviding education in a language does not support a language.

    Levels of resentment against Irish are miniscule, there is a tiny minority that have a problem with the language in this country. You are an outlier, your opinions are shared by a handful of cranks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    DC knows who has the most to lose if there's a crackdown on parades and all that shite.

    Just imagine if Republicans decided to match Unionists parade-for-parade in the Summer in the north? The place would grind to a halt and Unionists would wreck the place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,937 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    DC knows who has the most to lose if there's a crackdown on parades and all that shite.

    Just imagine if Republicans decided to match Unionists parade-for-parade in the Summer in the north? The place would grind to a halt and Unionists would wreck the place.

    Nonsense. Republicans tried to wreck the place for decades with bombs and if it was as easy as doing it with parades they would have tried it years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    If SF can't have their hungry strike commemorations then Orange Order and Apprentice Boys of Derry along with all those bands should not be allowed to parade
    According to this article a number of bands have withdrawn support for the apprentice boys.
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/loyalist-bands-withdraw-support-for-apprentice-boys-following-derry-soldier-f-controversy-38404666.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭gwalk




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Have SF said sorry for their carry on in Strabane yet, dancing on the spot where a small protestant child was murdered and glorifying terrorists?


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Have SF said sorry for their carry on in Strabane yet, dancing on the spot where a small protestant child was murdered and glorifying terrorists?

    Can you or downcow tell us how you know it was the exact spot even?

    It is laughable that those who will call the burning of effigies of recently dead people 'culture' or who can not see that marching into a city in support of a soldier who has confessed to killing is also 'culture require the other side to check through the entire history of the conflict to make sure nobody has died on or near the spot where you decide to have a spontaneous dance.

    I am sure somebody must have been drooling when they found that poor child in the archives.

    By all means criticise the internment bonfires, they deserve that, in the strongest tones. But this spurious exploitative nonsense will wither on the vine as more, 'look at themuns' excuse making.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Can you or downcow tell us how you know it was the exact spot even?

    It is laughable that those who will call the burning of effigies of recently dead people 'culture' or who can not see that marching into a city in support of a soldier who has confessed to killing is also 'culture require the other side to check through the entire history of the conflict to make sure nobody has died on or near the spot where you decide to have a spontaneous dance.

    I am sure somebody must have been drooling when they found that poor child in the archives.

    By all means criticise the internment bonfires, they deserve that, in the strongest tones. But this spurious exploitative nonsense will wither on the vine as more, 'look at themuns' excuse making.

    Locals there do not have to go through archives to find where Republicans murdered their loved ones, it is still in their memories.

    You have not answered the question: have SF said sorry yet? Never mind your excuses about "themuns" in Derry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Locals there do not have to go through archives to find where Republicans murdered their loved ones, it is still in their memories.

    You have not answered the question: have SF said sorry yet? Never mind your excuses about "themuns" in Derry.

    Not to my knowledge and I doubt they will.

    There isn't the slightest proof that they deliberately danced on the spot where a victim tragically died.

    We are WELL AWARE that people on both sides will get justifiably upset over commemorations of each others dead. A debate needs to be held over that as we try to normalise society.

    However, confusing that with deliberate and needless provocation and taunting like the Soldier F stuff and Internment Bonfires is wrong and counterproductive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Just imagine if Republicans decided to match Unionists parade-for-parade in the Summer in the north? The place would grind to a halt and Unionists would wreck the place.

    What would they march about? Republicans trump Unionists and then some, when it comes to wrecking the place.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    What would they march about? Republicans trump Unionists and then some, when it comes to wrecking the place.

    In the 20 years since a negotiated settlement? I would doubt that tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,866 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Have SF said sorry for their carry on in Strabane yet, dancing on the spot where a small protestant child was murdered and glorifying terrorists?

    Have the DUP members said sorry for posing under a banner for the paras in Derry?

    ******



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    gwalk wrote: »
    Good

    Not so much, they withdrew their support from the ABOD because apparently a public statement made by the ABOD slightly criticised the band in question and this sounded to other bands like a statement made by a nationalist group. They are refusing to march with ABOD again because seemingly they are hanging the offending band out to dry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    In the 20 years since a negotiated settlement? I would doubt that tbh.

    Any stats to back that up?


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    Any stats to back that up?

    No. Just observation.

    Flegs - and parade nonsense every single year from July to August. The ructions over the GFA itself etc etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Flegs - and parade nonsense every single year from July to August.

    Are there problems every year between July and August? Aside from the odd bit of isolated trouble around the 12th July, the marches pass of without incident. 95% don't even have a police officer in attendance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Berserker wrote: »
    Flegs - and parade nonsense every single year from July to August.

    Are there problems every year between July and August? Aside from the odd bit of isolated trouble around the 12th July, the marches pass of without incident. 95% don't even have a police officer in attendance.

    I can't recall a single year without trouble between July and August around OO parading. Absolutely the majority pass without incident, it is often the same small few which cause problems every year.

    The Rossnowlagh parade is probably a great example to be held up regarding how the parades should be. Uncontroversial and non-triumphalist (as much as is possible given the nature of the celebration) on the Orange side, tolerated by the Irish side.

    Orangeism and parading will never be my cup of tea, but I'd have very few complaints if they conducted themselves in this manner, compared with, for example, the carry on outside St Patrick's Church.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    I can't recall a single year without trouble between July and August around OO parading. Absolutely the majority pass without incident, it is often the same small few which cause problems every year.

    The Rossnowlagh parade is probably a great example to be held up regarding how the parades should be. Uncontroversial and non-triumphalist (as much as is possible given the nature of the celebration) on the Orange side, tolerated by the Irish side.

    Orangeism and parading will never be my cup of tea, but I'd have very few complaints if they conducted themselves in this manner, compared with, for example, the carry on outside St Patrick's Church.

    You would have to be willing to ignore the fact that there is trouble every year around 11th night and the 12th.

    Obviously unionists have an acceptable level of these cultural expressions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,937 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You would have to be willing to ignore the fact that there is trouble every year around 11th night and the 12th.

    Obviously unionists have an acceptable level of these cultural expressions.

    Francie where was all this trouble on 11th night and 12th this year? I think you might be get mixed up with st Patrick’s day or nationalist bonfires which do always have trouble.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,937 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Berserker wrote: »
    Are there problems every year between July and August? Aside from the odd bit of isolated trouble around the 12th July, the marches pass of without incident. 95% don't even have a police officer in attendance.

    Berserker, I appreciate your supportive post. Do be careful thought that you don’t be taken in by the sf pr. it is fantasy that there is trouble every year on the twelfth. I’ve asked other to provide some evidence of significant trouble on the twelfth of July this year and I am only getting silence
    There is probably no event involving 100s of 1,000s of people which is so trouble free


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    downcow wrote: »
    You would have to be willing to ignore the fact that there is trouble every year around 11th night and the 12th.

    Obviously unionists have an acceptable level of these cultural expressions.

    Francie where was all this trouble on 11th night and 12th this year? I think you might be get mixed up with st Patrick’s day or nationalist bonfires which do always have trouble.

    You're genuinely deluded, Downcow.

    I've heard many arguments that the trouble that occurs at a number of 11th Night/12th celebrations isn't representative of the normal, but even among the most hardline, entrenched of Unionists, I've never heard someone stick their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

    Five second Google - Avoniel being one of the usual suspects for this behaviour: https://www.thejournal.ie/12-july-bonfires-belfast-avoniel-4721431-Jul2019/?amp=1


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,308 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Francie where was all this trouble on 11th night and 12th this year? I think you might be get mixed up with st Patrick’s day or nationalist bonfires which do always have trouble.

    Are you going to make me have to go and google how much policing these benign trouble free 'cultural' events cost?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Berserker wrote: »
    What would they march about?

    It's a thought experiment - has it gone over your head? If every unionist parade was matched, on a quid pro quo basis, by a Republican parade the place would erupt - there'd be utter horror at the very thought of them'uns daring to seek parading equality in 'Our Wee Country'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    downcow wrote: »
    it is fantasy that there is trouble every year on the twelfth.

    There is less trouble because you were brought to heel by the British government in 1998 and kept there by the parades commission.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    I can't recall a single year without trouble between July and August around OO parading. Absolutely the majority pass without incident, it is often the same small few which cause problems every year.

    It's not that hard to find a year. Think about it.
    downcow wrote: »
    Berserker, I appreciate your supportive post. Do be careful thought that you don’t be taken in by the sf pr. it is fantasy that there is trouble every year on the twelfth. I’ve asked other to provide some evidence of significant trouble on the twelfth of July this year and I am only getting silence. There is probably no event involving 100s of 1,000s of people which is so trouble free

    Oh, I'm well aware of the SF PR machine. But for Republicans and their total lack of respect for Protestant culture there'd be no issues at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Berserker wrote: »
    total lack of respect for Protestant culture

    This culture?

    488205.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Berserker wrote: »
    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    I can't recall a single year without trouble between July and August around OO parading. Absolutely the majority pass without incident, it is often the same small few which cause problems every year.

    It's not that hard to find a year. Think about it.
    downcow wrote: »
    Berserker, I appreciate your supportive post. Do be careful thought that you don’t be taken in by the sf pr. it is fantasy that there is trouble every year on the twelfth. I’ve asked other to provide some evidence of significant trouble on the twelfth of July this year and I am only getting silence. There is probably no event involving 100s of 1,000s of people which is so trouble free

    Oh, I'm well aware of the SF PR machine. But for Republicans and their total lack of respect for Protestant culture there'd be no issues at all.

    Sure, wasn't much trouble around Orange parades before 1690.

    In my lifetime, there hasn't been a year passed without issue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    downcow wrote: »
    I am very clear. It was insensitive but should be allowed. I don’t want any police force having the power to decide what you me or martina can wear

    You were certainly not clear on that but I hear you now.
    It's not that clear cut. It was an obvious attempt at goading people regarding the killings of unarmed peace marchers. That's not as simple as not being allowed wear what you like. It's not a pair of shoes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Berserker wrote: »
    It's not that hard to find a year. Think about it.



    Oh, I'm well aware of the SF PR machine. But for Republicans and their total lack of respect for Protestant culture there'd be no issues at all.

    Protestant culture? I have protestant friends and neighbours all my life. There's protestant churches all over the place. Not one bit of trouble from them in regards their culture. I think you're confusing protestants with bigots who happen to be protestant.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    In my lifetime, there hasn't been a year passed without issue.

    There has been. Take off your republican blinkers and work your way back through the years. It won't take you very long to find one.


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