2020 All Ireland Senior Football Championship MOD NOTE POST #1

interlocked · 16-01-2021 5:12am

I've been wondering about the actual recent appellation of an All Ireland medal winner.

Back in the day, you appeared on the pitch during an All Ireland final, irrespective of the duration, you could say, yeah I played. I contributed to winning an All Ireland.

If you were an unused sub, well........ you still had your medal.

A current All Ireland winning team gets 26 medals from the GAA, back in the 80's, I think, it was only 21. Kerry used to have to buy the extra medals for the extended panel. Did they mean anything to the individuals from 22 onwards?

Noel Skehan has 9 All Ireland medals, he beat Christy Ring, but he would be the first to admit the the first three were as sub goalie to Ollie Walsh, and that therefore there will always be an asterisk to that number, and rightly so.

Eoin Liston had his appendix removed a few weeks before the 1980 All Ireland, was pulled out onto the pitch in his normal clothes for the team photo, no notion of being on the final panel in any shape or form, although he would have been full forward, yet now in Wikipedia, it's being lauded as his third All Ireland medal out of seven. Revisionism in its finest form.

The likes of Stephen Cluxton and James McCarthy, or Jack O' Shea or Mikey Sheedy or Ogie Moran have won eight All Irelands, practically non stop on the field. They are in the pantheon of all time greats.

But, then you get into the current numbers games.

Cian O Sullivan, because he was part of the Dublin squad is now declared as the holder of eight All Ireland medals, despite not having played a minute of championship football in 2020 nor being part of the 26 man panel for the final. The same goes for Paddy Andrews. That's just devaluing the medals that they won on the pitch

This is not a slight against either individual, but when does actual attainment matter, otherwise you're going down the road of rugby, where Felix Jones was awarded a World Cup medal for being part of the South African backroom team.

So, when does a medal really count?

Girly Gal · 16-01-2021 10:51am

interlocked wrote: »

I've been wondering about the actual recent appellation of an All Ireland medal winner.

Back in the day, you appeared on the pitch during an All Ireland final, irrespective of the duration, you could say, yeah I played. I contributed to winning an All Ireland.

If you were an unused sub, well........ you still had your medal.

A current All Ireland winning team gets 26 medals from the GAA, back in the 80's, I think, it was only 21. Kerry used to have to buy the extra medals for the extended panel. Did they mean anything to the individuals from 22 onwards?

Noel Skehan has 9 All Ireland medals, he beat Christy Ring, but he would be the first to admit the the first three were as sub goalie to Ollie Walsh, and that therefore there will always be an asterisk to that number, and rightly so.

Eoin Liston had his appendix removed a few weeks before the 1980 All Ireland, was pulled out onto the pitch in his normal clothes for the team photo, no notion of being on the final panel in any shape or form, although he would have been full forward, yet now in Wikipedia, it's being lauded as his third All Ireland medal out of seven. Revisionism in its finest form.

The likes of Stephen Cluxton and James McCarthy, or Jack O' Shea or Mikey Sheedy or Ogie Moran have won eight All Irelands, practically non stop on the field. They are in the pantheon of all time greats.

But, then you get into the current numbers games.

Cian O Sullivan, because he was part of the Dublin squad is now declared as the holder of eight All Ireland medals, despite not having played a minute of championship football in 2020 nor being part of the 26 man panel for the final. The same goes for Paddy Andrews. That's just devaluing the medals that they won on the pitch

This is not a slight against either individual, but when does actual attainment matter, otherwise you're going down the road of rugby, where Felix Jones was awarded a World Cup medal for being part of the South African backroom team.

So, when does a medal really count?

You'd need to ask the players themselves, I think it depends on the circumstances, if you didn't play all year or only came on in one or two games for a few minutes I don't think the medal would mean as much as if you played every minute or the majority of the matches. Missing the final through injury is slightly different if you've played all year and were certain to start bar the injury, it still wouldn't mean as much, but, at least you would have contributed to the team getting to the final. In any circumstances unless you come on and make a significant playing contribution to winning the all Ireland I think the medal would be devalued. The same as any sport really.
Your example of Felix Jones having a World Cup medal for been on the South African backroom team for a few weeks really is a good example of devaluing a medal.

ShyMets · 16-01-2021 12:02pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Final watched by 870k.

Not overly surprising as there was an air of inevitability about the result. A Dublin Kerry final would have probably got a larger audience as the odds of an upset would have been seen as greater

TCDStudent1 · 16-01-2021 3:48pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Final watched by 870k.

How does that compare to other years?

dobman88 · 16-01-2021 6:36pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

How does that compare to other years?

870k isn't bad for the time of year and general consensus of a Dublin win.

1.1mil watched the drawn 5 in a row game in 2019. A historic match in every sense of the word with the entire country watching. So 870k would be pretty good.

ArielAtom · 16-01-2021 6:47pm

Given it was the week before Christmas and shops were open, I think that a really good figure.

Boom__Boom · 16-01-2021 7:42pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Given it was the week before Christmas and shops were open, I think that a really good figure.

The share figure was 60% i.e. 60% of those watching television at the time in Ireland were watching the All-Ireland final. The share figure for last year's games was 76.5% for the draw and 72.3% for the replay so roughly about a 20% decline on last year's figures.

I don't think the fact that it was Christmas week and the shops had much of an impact, given there were 1.462 million [877k by 60%] watching television at the time of the match in 2020 compared to 1.226 million [968.7k by 76.5%] watching television when the drawn game was on in 2019 and 1.337 million [966.6k by 72.3%] watching television when the replay was on.

Significantly more people watching television yet significantly less opting to watch the All-Ireland will surely have Croke Park worried.

kippy · 16-01-2021 7:43pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The share figure was 60% i.e. 60% of those watching television at the time in Ireland were watching the All-Ireland final. The share figure for last year's games was 76.5% for the draw and 72.3% for the replay so roughly about a 20% decline on last year's figures.

I don't think the fact that it was Christmas week and the shops had much of an impact, given there were 1.462 million [877k by 60%] watching television at the time of the match in 2020 compared to 1.226 million [968.7k by 76.5%] watching television when the drawn game was on in 2019 and 1.337 million [966.6k by 72.3%] watching television when the replay was on.

Significantly more people watching television yet significantly less opting to watch the All-Ireland will surely have Croke Park worried.

Its what happens when you end up with the narrative and realities that accompanied this years championship.

dunnerc · 17-01-2021 12:20pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The share figure was 60% i.e. 60% of those watching television at the time in Ireland were watching the All-Ireland final. The share figure for last year's games was 76.5% for the draw and 72.3% for the replay so roughly about a 20% decline on last year's figures.

I don't think the fact that it was Christmas week and the shops had much of an impact, given there were 1.462 million [877k by 60%] watching television at the time of the match in 2020 compared to 1.226 million [968.7k by 76.5%] watching television when the drawn game was on in 2019 and 1.337 million [966.6k by 72.3%] watching television when the replay was on.

Significantly more people watching television yet significantly less opting to watch the All-Ireland will surely have Croke Park worried.

Croke Park worried ? Wouldnt think so

The most watched live sports events in 2020

1. All-Ireland SFC final: Dublin v Mayo (RTÉ Two) – 876.6k viewers

2. Six Nations: France v Ireland (Virgin Media One) – 850.3k

3. All-Ireland SHC final: Limerick v Waterford (RTÉ Two) – 712.9k

4. Six Nations: Ireland v Scotland (Virgin Media One) – 635.8k

5. Six Nations: England v Ireland (Virgin Media One) – 634.4k

6. Six Nations: Ireland v Wales (Virgin Media One) – 605.2k

7. Euro 2020 playoff semi-final: Slovakia v Ireland (RTÉ Two) – 570.4k

8. Six Nations: Ireland v Italy (Virgin Media One) – 540.6k

9. All-Ireland SHC semi-final: Limerick v Galway (RTÉ Two) – 534k

10. All-Ireland SFC semi-final: Mayo v Tipperary (RTÉ Two) – 533.2k

11. Autumn Nations Cup: Ireland v Wales (RTÉ Two) – 510.3k

12. All-Ireland SFC semi-final: Dublin v Cavan (RTÉ Two) – 505.3k

13. Autumn Nations Cup: England v Ireland (RTÉ One) – 510.3k

14. The Boys In Green (March 16) – 479k

Fr Tod Umptious · 17-01-2021 1:52pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The share figure was 60% i.e. 60% of those watching television at the time in Ireland were watching the All-Ireland final. The share figure for last year's games was 76.5% for the draw and 72.3% for the replay so roughly about a 20% decline on last year's figures.

I don't think the fact that it was Christmas week and the shops had much of an impact, given there were 1.462 million [877k by 60%] watching television at the time of the match in 2020 compared to 1.226 million [968.7k by 76.5%] watching television when the drawn game was on in 2019 and 1.337 million [966.6k by 72.3%] watching television when the replay was on.

Significantly more people watching television yet significantly less opting to watch the All-Ireland will surely have Croke Park worried.

Watching games with no crowd in a vast empty stadium just does not have the same appeal as a normal one would have.

That too may have been a factor.

dobman88 · 17-01-2021 1:56pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

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Watching games with no crowd in a vast empty stadium just does not have the same appeal as a normal one would have.

That too may have been a factor.

I'd agree with that. I've watched less and less soccer since no fans allowed. Would always have watched whatever was on Saturday evenings and all day Sunday. But now I can't remember the last time I watched a full match. Even found myself turning off CL games as it's just not the same for me. I know I'm very much in the casual fan bracket and there are lads who wouldnt miss a game but no atmosphere is hard to watch on telly and is definitely a factor for people not tuning into the AI final.

870k is still a good number though. Not sure why anyone would think it's bad.

munster87 · 17-01-2021 2:51pm

You’d have had an extra 80,000 people at the game watching the year before too.

Girly Gal · 17-01-2021 3:02pm

munster87 wrote: »

You’d have had an extra 80,000 people at the game watching the year before too.

That's true and I'd imagine all of them would have watched the match, so when they're taken into account that brings the viewing figures below 800k, the hurling final figures in comparison are really poor considering it was between 2 teams that haven't played in many finals over the years

JeffKenna · 17-01-2021 3:03pm

munster87 wrote: »

You’d have had an extra 80,000 people at the game watching the year before too.

That's actually a really good point, hadn't thought of it.

ShyMets · 17-01-2021 3:10pm

dobman88 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. I've watched less and less soccer since no fans allowed. Would always have watched whatever was on Saturday evenings and all day Sunday. But now I can't remember the last time I watched a full match. Even found myself turning off CL games as it's just not the same for me. I know I'm very much in the casual fan bracket and there are lads who wouldnt miss a game but no atmosphere is hard to watch on telly and is definitely a factor for people not tuning into the AI final.

870k is still a good number though. Not sure why anyone would think it's bad.

Spot on. Watch Dublining v Mayo it didn't feel like an All Ireland Final. The atmosphere was more like a challenge match.

If I wasn't a Dublin fan I would have checked the score from time to time but I wouldn't have watched the full game

flasher0030 · 18-01-2021 2:27pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Final watched by 870k.

Maybe there is something obvious that I am missing. But how do they actually know how many watched the match on TV.
What I mean is - I'm sure the data per TV can be got. But who's to know how many people could be in a room watching the match. Could have all the relations in watching the final on one TV.
Maybe I'm having a Monday blonde day.

kippy · 18-01-2021 2:28pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Maybe there is something obvious that I am missing. But how do they actually know how many watched the match on TV.
What I mean is - I'm sure the data per TV can be got. But who's to know how many people could be in a room watching the match. Could have all the relations in watching the final on one TV.
Maybe I'm having a Monday blonde day.

They don't.

These figures are just nonsense really nowadays (they always were to a point)

RedDevil55 · 18-01-2021 2:33pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Maybe there is something obvious that I am missing. But how do they actually know how many watched the match on TV.
What I mean is - I'm sure the data per TV can be got. But who's to know how many people could be in a room watching the match. Could have all the relations in watching the final on one TV.
Maybe I'm having a Monday blonde day.

Always wondered the same thing. I watched the final in a hotel. There was 6 at our table, 6 at the one next to us and 2 behind us. All watching the one TV.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 2:43pm

Certain households(can be few thousand people altogether) are surveyed with the make up of these households that closely resembles the overall viewing public. As well as demography and geography the panel is selected according to platform, whether the TV set or via desktop, laptop or tablet that they watch programmes on.

Theyre fairly good representation of what people what

kippy · 18-01-2021 2:48pm

Festive Life wrote: »

Certain households(can be few thousand people altogether) are surveyed with the make up of these households that closely resembles the overall viewing public. As well as demography and geography the panel is selected according to platform, whether the TV set or via desktop, laptop or tablet that they watch programmes on.

Theyre fairly good representation of what people what

They are not though.

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 4:57pm

They're not / They are

One of you are going to have to back this up!

kippy · 18-01-2021 5:55pm

Mrs Gilhooley wrote: »

They're not / They are

One of you are going to have to back this up!

It's very obviously not even close to a decent method of coming up with a close to accurate figure as it's a nonsense statistic to begin to try and measure.

I was asked once (while working in IT) by a member of HR who had sent a mail to the entire organisation (about 10,000 people) - can you tell me how many people read that email?

Sure I said, about 3,000 (pulled it from thin air). Twas as scientific a method as some of the methods use to garner viewership.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-01-2021 6:10pm

Are we having a debate about formulation of TV ratings now ?

I'm going to take a mad guess here now that seeing as so much TV advertising business is based around ratings, and has been done so for decades worldwide, that the way these numbers are formulated is pretty scientific at this point.

Boom__Boom · 18-01-2021 6:25pm

While there may be some systemic issues in terms of getting it spot on in terms of the exact number for who watched a specific program, the viewership numbers would be very good in terms of tracking changes in viewership because the systemic issues wouldn't change much. Basically any problems in the collection method when 10 million are recorded as watching something will still be there a week later when 8 million are reported as watching a program, so television companies/advertiser can be fairly certain that 2 million less tuned in the 2nd week.

kippy · 18-01-2021 6:29pm

Tis all smoke and mirrors folks.

Anyway we move on.

2020 All Ireland Senior Football Championship MOD NOTE POST #1

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