Ireland is a pretend football country

Strumms · 18-01-2021 2:58pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

100% Becker stays fit and in form, only having just turned 28... he could have another 6/7 years at Liverpool, longer maybe .... Kelleher will be 27/28 himself by then.... he isn’t going to improve by sitting on the bench and playing in the league cup...

If I’m Kelleher I’m saying in my mind.... “ ok, I’ve two or three seasons, I’ll work my arse off, try get in the team, do well when I’ve an opportunity... Alisson might loose form, head to Madrid....take up baseball instead.... any of those things happen I want to be ready to be #1 “...

Worst thing he can do is hang around till he’s 27/28... play league cup / early round FA Cup games... seen players do that, by the time a chance manifests itself they are stale... all on them taking that chance in a cup game vs Doncaster, big pressure, a clanger dropped ... goodnight.... few months later, signed by Hull...

I’d rather at 24/25 he’d say... “ok, thanks Liverpool but I need to take my opportunity elsewhere Sunderland / Newcastle... whoever have contacted you with an offer for me, I’d like to leave”

Dr. Bre · 18-01-2021 3:02pm

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s the thing, yet Paddy Premiership thinks it’s gas to point out loads of Man United’s fans come from London without a hint of irony.

Yep . At least if your a Londoner and follow united you are supporting a team in your country . If rovers and bohs had supporters who are from outside Dublin well at least they support a team in Ireland. It doesn’t happen here tho

Muahahaha · 18-01-2021 3:03pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Croatia is across from Italy. Consistently punch well above their weight.

Croatias sporting success goes back to the Cold War days when they were Yugoslavia and they heavily funded athletes there as a way of fomenting national pride and sticking it to the west. Its something that has endured since they got independence. They've produced some remarkable technically gifted footballers over the years too, they got to the semi finals of the World Cup in both 1998 and 2018 which is some achievement for such a small nation.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

also factor in that New Zealand is completely barren in terms of the arts compared to Ireland , sport is how kiwis express themselves , they are certainly not story tellers or poets

Yeah aside from Peter Jackson (Oscar) and Lorde (Grammy) its difficult to think of many other NZ successes in the arts on an international stage. Im sure there are others but sport in NZ is the be all and end all.

Strumms · 18-01-2021 3:24pm

In New Zealand rugby and cricket is everything. For a small enough population globally they have boxed above their weight in both sports which is great..3 world cups, 17 tri nations/ championships.

doublejobbing 2 · 18-01-2021 3:35pm

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s the thing, yet Paddy Premiership thinks it’s gas to point out loads of Man United’s fans come from London without a hint of irony.

I've never been to a match in Britain. If I were to go to one in London frankly I'd head down Charlton Athletic or Millwall for a look (might keep my accent on the DL at Millwall mind :pac:) Just proper rough and ready stadiums and fans. If I were up North I'd sooner to head to Oldham or Bury (if they start again) than nod off watching rubbish like the derby yesterday.

In Scotland I'd probably rather visit Hibs over Celtic for a match, even though I was quite into Celtic back in the day (more in the CL than caring about the SPL). The reaction to finally having to go a season without winning everything available has been incredibly cringe from their fans.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 3:38pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Yep . At least if your a Londoner and follow united you are supporting a team in your country . If rovers and bohs had supporters who are from outside Dublin well at least they support a team in Ireland. It doesn’t happen here tho

it happens a bit in LOI, I support a team in LOI that is 2 and a half hours away. I know others who travel the same kind of distance to watch LOI teams they support.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-01-2021 3:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Leagues themselves might not be an issue, but the voting at the AGM based on those leagues is part of the reason Delaney got away with everything for so long.

Limerick is a decent example of the general malaise in the LOI considering the current demise of Limerick FC and the promised arrival of Thomond United. Even with the return to the Market's Field (a fine stadium, imo) we couldn't sustain crowds (partially due to the on-going split between the club owner and the fans) needed to sustain top level football in the city.

I never know how much faith to place in the rumours that footballers with the big junior clubs are paid more than Limerick FC players were but there definitely seemed to be a culture of players opting out of higher level football to stay junior. You don't see that as often in the GAA (where lads will only play club level but refuse to play inter-county) though it does happen.

Anyhow, the easiest way to improve crowds at LOI is to build bars in each one and sell alcohol. No bar or alcohol in the redeveloped Market's Field is one example of a revenue stream closed for no good reason. The LOI need to make it easy for casual fans to choose to attend matches, pints with the lads is one option.

Anyhow, any who doesn't go to LOI matches is missing out. The football is obviously way worse that the premier league but the atmosphere can be great fun. I remember going to Limerick games when we were in a relegation dog-fight and every goal counted massively. Great entertainment.

This is one thing that I think goes against soccer attendance.
Now I'm not say that your suggestion of selling alcohol at a venue is not a good one, it's just that soccer does not seem as family friendly as GAA.

It's a "lads" thing.

I have been to a few LOI games, loads of Irish international soccer games and multitudes of GAA games.

From what I have observed the attendance difference between the soccer and the GAA is stark.
The soccer is primarily (not exclusively but primarily) males.
And those males are primarily aged 16 to 50 or so.
Any family attendance is primarily father and son.

The GAA on the other hand has a far more varied attendance.
Mothers and fathers with young kids, babies even.
Teenage lads.
Teenage and early 20s girls all dolled up to the nines.
OAPs both male and female.

As a family we have gone to lots of Saturday night national league GAA games, but we would never think of going as a family to a LOI game.
The atmosphere is just different.

I also believe it is to do with the community aspect of following GAA, in that the young, old, male, female are equally involved in their local club and equally involved in following the county team.

But that's just one thing I observed from going to both soccer and GAA

doublejobbing 2 · 18-01-2021 3:42pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Yep . At least if your a Londoner and follow united you are supporting a team in your country . If rovers and bohs had supporters who are from outside Dublin well at least they support a team in Ireland. It doesn’t happen here tho

I've actually known of quite a few Rovers fans to come from Kildare, Wicklow and south east Dublin. While their base is Tallaght to the South Inner City I would say it is

a- the largest supported team in Ireland

b- has the widest geographical catchment

Bohs gets quite a few country lads who adopted them when they came to Dublin, but few people whose roots aren't in Northside Dublin itself unfortunately. I guess the GAA rivalry means rural Meath lads just can't abide by it.

cms88 · 18-01-2021 3:44pm

Why do people think Irish people do support English teams so much?

I can get the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool etc But you tend to see for example a lot of Irish people who support Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest etc

There's no reason people can't follow both, however something i think puts people off is some LOI fans. You see them on social media all the time. THey either have a gripe with the GAA or ''bar strollers'. I sometimes think they actually don't want others to start going to games etc

Omackeral · 18-01-2021 3:47pm

cms88 wrote: »

I can get the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool etc But you tend to see for example a lot of Irish people who support Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest etc

A handful of Forest fans from the European glory days. I’ve yet to meet a Boro fan.

cms88 · 18-01-2021 3:49pm

Omackeral wrote: »

A handful of Forest fans from the European glory days. I’ve yet to meet a Boro fan.

I know of a few down here, and i'm in Kerry! May or many not have been in the late 90s when they were in the cup finals. \I know a few Blackburn fans who are after the mid 90s also

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 3:50pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This is one thing that I think goes against soccer attendance.
Now I'm not say that your suggestion of selling alcohol at a venue is not a good one, it's just that soccer does not seem as family friendly as GAA.

It's a "lads" thing.

I have been to a few LOI games, loads of Irish international soccer games and multitudes of GAA games.

From what I have observed the attendance difference between the soccer and the GAA is stark.
The soccer is primarily (not exclusively but primarily) males.
And those males are primarily aged 16 to 50 or so.
Any family attendance is primarily father and son.

The GAA on the other hand has a far more varied attendance.
Mothers and fathers with young kids, babies even.
Teenage lads.
Teenage and early 20s girls all dolled up to the nines.
OAPs both male and female.

As a family we have gone to lots of Saturday night national league GAA games, but we would never think of going as a family to a LOI game.
The atmosphere is just different.

I also believe it is to do with the community aspect of following GAA, in that the young, old, male, female are equally involved in their local club and equally involved is following the county team.

But that's just one thing I observed from going to both soccer and GAA

Plenty of kids at Limerick FC games ime, though think one of the reasons the fans and owner fell out was over vulgar (for want of a better word) chants at the games. I don't know the full ins and outs of it though.

I do know what you mean all the same, Limerick GAA work very hard at being rooted in the local community. I'm not sure the FAI are as bothered by it, and seem to think the clubs can do all that stuff alone.

Dr. Bre · 18-01-2021 4:03pm

cms88 wrote: »

I know of a few down here, and i'm in Kerry! May or many not have been in the late 90s when they were in the cup finals. \I know a few Blackburn fans who are after the mid 90s also

I’m a rover . Blackburn and shamrock

Patrick2010 · 18-01-2021 4:12pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This is one thing that I think goes against soccer attendance.
Now I'm not say that your suggestion of selling alcohol at a venue is not a good one, it's just that soccer does not seem as family friendly as GAA.

It's a "lads" thing.

I have been to a few LOI games, loads of Irish international soccer games and multitudes of GAA games.

From what I have observed the attendance difference between the soccer and the GAA is stark.
The soccer is primarily (not exclusively but primarily) males.
And those males are primarily aged 16 to 50 or so.
Any family attendance is primarily father and son.

The GAA on the other hand has a far more varied attendance.
Mothers and fathers with young kids, babies even.
Teenage lads.
Teenage and early 20s girls all dolled up to the nines.
OAPs both male and female.

As a family we have gone to lots of Saturday night national league GAA games, but we would never think of going as a family to a LOI game.
The atmosphere is just different.

I also believe it is to do with the community aspect of following GAA, in that the young, old, male, female are equally involved in their local club and equally involved in following the county team.

But that's just one thing I observed from going to both soccer and GAA

Plenty of families at Rovers games in Tallaght, they even have a family section but lot of families outside that area.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 4:19pm

cms88 wrote: »

Why do people think Irish people do support English teams so much?

I can get the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool etc But you tend to see for example a lot of Irish people who support Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest etc

There's no reason people can't follow both, however something i think puts people off is some LOI fans. You see them on social media all the time. THey either have a gripe with the GAA or ''bar strollers'. I sometimes think they actually don't want others to start going to games etc

most lads into soccer in primary school had a team they followed and just carried on. you can support both a LOI team and premier league team if you like though.

OldRio · 18-01-2021 4:27pm

Omackeral wrote: »

A handful of Forest fans from the European glory days. I’ve yet to meet a Boro fan.

Cough cough. There are quite a number. A hell of a lot of Irish moved over there for work.

randd1 · 18-01-2021 4:29pm

cms88 wrote: »

Why do people think Irish people do support English teams so much?

I can get the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool etc But you tend to see for example a lot of Irish people who support Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest etc

There's no reason people can't follow both, however something i think puts people off is some LOI fans. You see them on social media all the time. THey either have a gripe with the GAA or ''bar strollers'. I sometimes think they actually don't want others to start going to games etc

Sure what's the challenge in supporting the likes of United and Liverpool?

What you want is a challenge is a real challenge as a supporter. Try Sunderland. Will they win this weekend, will they lose? Will they get promoted? Will they get relegated? Will we get that striker on a free transfer? We will go tits up at the end of the year? That's the type of club to put you through the emotional ringer.

United, Liverpool,City, Chelsea, Spurs? Phhtt. "Sheffield United, should be three points."" The supporters of them side have it handy.

WesternZulu · 18-01-2021 4:35pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This.

From some of the stuff you read online the day trippers killed the atmosphere in Anfield and OT years ago. I think all the same there are thousands of untapped fans who just don't realise how good a LOI match is and how they can be part of it.

Tourists are common at LOI matches. They are more than welcome as they are almost always the same shade of support as the locals, not some lad from Clonmel taking a selfie in Liverpool as Salah takes a corner behind him.

I think there is definitely a market for LOI. However, when you watch all football games on TV you get a false perception of what a live game is like. There is a certain slickness that comes across on TV.

I've been to Ireland games as well as games in the EPL and La Liga and it's amazing how different the experience is compared to TV. Not nearly as polished!

Now if you've watched Man U or Liverpool on TV all of your life and are persuaded to go to a LOI game then I think you measure it against that slick TV product you're used to and judge it accordingly (more than likely negatively) .

I wish we had a league comparable to the Scandinavian countries or Scotland. One issue is that the LOI is very Dublin centric where huge swathes of the country have no club. As a Mayo man it doesn't sit right supporting Galway United although I have gone to a few of their games.

This image shows how poor our football culture is. The blue shaded countries are those who have never qualified for the Champions League. It's no surprise but highlights comparitively how really bad things are:

Hello 2D Person Below · 18-01-2021 4:42pm

WesternZulu wrote: »

As a Mayo man it doesn't sit right supporting Galway United although I have gone to a few of their games.

As a Kilkenny man, I had the same issue with regards to supporting Waterford. I've been to plenty of their games over the years but couldn't quite reconcile supporting Kilkenny in GAA and Waterford in soccer.

So while I keep the odd eye on how they're doing, I don't actively support them and my weekend mood doesn't teeter on a Waterford result.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 4:53pm

Omackeral wrote: »

We have a GAA culture in this country. Our football, or soccer, culture is getting on a bandwagon when Ireland qualify for a major championships once a decade and also it consists of roaring at a telly in a pub on weekends and calling Mick from Clonmel a Scouse bin-dipper on Facebook.

People really need to stop using the word bandwagon like a dirty word. everyone is a supporter. Yes how dedicated you are will vary but nobody checks how much of a supporter you are as you enter a ground/watch on tv.
Ireland hasnt been good enough to qualify for most soccer major championships. Its going to be a major cultural event especially when at these tournaments by and large we've done very well.

Brian? · 18-01-2021 4:56pm

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Until there is the same passion for soccer as there is for hurling and Gaelic football in rural Ireland we are never going to be able compete with other countries or European clubs.
The best athletes in the country are wasted playing GAA.
Not just potential soccer players but potential Olympic athletes.
There is just no other sporting outlet.
It's as simple as that.

They're not wasted. Why would you use that word for people who choose a different sport.

Mad_maxx · 18-01-2021 5:13pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Croatias sporting success goes back to the Cold War days when they were Yugoslavia and they heavily funded athletes there as a way of fomenting national pride and sticking it to the west. Its something that has endured since they got independence. They've produced some remarkable technically gifted footballers over the years too, they got to the semi finals of the World Cup in both 1998 and 2018 which is some achievement for such a small nation.

Yeah aside from Peter Jackson (Oscar) and Lorde (Grammy) its difficult to think of many other NZ successes in the arts on an international stage. Im sure there are others but sport in NZ is the be all and end all.

its a very young country in fairness and was really an English colony until about 1970 , at least culturally

Mad_maxx · 18-01-2021 5:15pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I've never been to a match in Britain. If I were to go to one in London frankly I'd head down Charlton Athletic or Millwall for a look (might keep my accent on the DL at Millwall mind :pac:) Just proper rough and ready stadiums and fans. If I were up North I'd sooner to head to Oldham or Bury (if they start again) than nod off watching rubbish like the derby yesterday.

In Scotland I'd probably rather visit Hibs over Celtic for a match, even though I was quite into Celtic back in the day (more in the CL than caring about the SPL). The reaction to finally having to go a season without winning everything available has been incredibly cringe from their fans.

is the animosity between Hibs and Hearts as intense as that of the old firm ?

obviously two small sides by comparison with the Glasgow pairing so perhaps the rivalry is under reported ?

Mad_maxx · 18-01-2021 5:17pm

Omackeral wrote: »

A handful of Forest fans from the European glory days. I’ve yet to meet a Boro fan.

huge number of Aston Villa fans or at least used to be , West Ham to a lesser extent , both very big clubs admittedly from a supporter standpoint

Omackeral · 18-01-2021 5:21pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

is the animosity between Hibs and Hearts as intense as that of the old firm ?

obviously two small sides by comparison with the Glasgow pairing so perhaps the rivalry is under reported ?

Less publicised and less sectarian but still there.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 5:34pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah aside from Peter Jackson (Oscar) and Lorde (Grammy) its difficult to think of many other NZ successes in the arts on an international stage. Im sure there are others but sport in NZ is the be all and end all.

Flight of the Conchords, Kiri Tekanawa, Taika Waititi, off the top of my head. They've a good live music scene I lived there for a while but yes don't have the old writers and poets like Ireland had.
They're mad for rugby but the atmosphere is just terrible at All Blacks games. Netball is popular there too for some reason.

cms88 · 18-01-2021 5:38pm

Brian? wrote: »

They're not wasted. Why would you use that word for people who choose a different sport.

This is something i can never understand anf it's only said about GAA. You never hear someone who went to England to play soccer when they were young and it may not have worked out as being watsted to the GAA or anyone else

fryup · 18-01-2021 5:52pm

Remember when niall quinn and the irish consortium took over at Sunderland and they drafted in Roy Keane as manager.....it was like half the country was supporting them overnight...but now??? nowhere to be seen or heard

we're a nation of bandwagoners (if that word exists)

Mad_maxx · 18-01-2021 6:00pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Less publicised and less sectarian but still there.

thought so

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-01-2021 6:02pm

cms88 wrote: »

This is something i can never understand anf it's only said about GAA. You never hear someone who went to England to play soccer when they were young and it may not have worked out as being watsted to the GAA or anyone else

You see what you are describing there goes hand in hand with that is being described in the bolded bits in post below.

Anything English (or not Irish at least ) > Something Irish.

pgj2015 wrote: »

A lot of Irish people have an inferiority complex, they think everything English is better than the Irish equivalent. I always prefer Irish versions of things, like I watched the premiership on RTE over match of the day, I watch the Irish dragons den over the one on BBC, same with gogglebox. But some Irish people are the opposite, everything Irish they run down. MY friend who was a west brit even started using english slang and trying to talk like an English person on hoiliday in spain once.

Ireland is a pretend football country

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