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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Stoneybatter board outbound

    Tonight



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I got to say this is largely due to the NTA and their BusConnects, LocalLink and other projects!

    I know some folks here are going to be angry and surprised at me saying this. Obviously many elements of BusConnects are taking far too long to roll out, but what has been done has already had a big impact IMO.

    I think the 90 minute €2 fare is a massive success, along with the €1 young adult and children’s fares. These have made public transport much more affordable, easier to use and much more attractive to people, which has likely driven a lot of uptake. Great value at a time when cars and everything else have gotten so much more expensive.

    The 24/7 busses seem to be a big success and often full, likely adding to the numbers.

    New orbital routes like the N4 a big success and adding passengers who might not have travelled by bus before.

    Improved weekend and off peak frequencies, while strictly speaking pre BusConnects, seem to be very popular too.

    If they can keep the €2/1 fare for a couple of years while continuing to rollout more 24/7 and orbital routes, I believe we will continue to see big increases year on year like this as BusConnects continues to rollout.

    Of course the limiting factor is having enough bus drivers to operate all these services and meet demand.

    Outside of Dublin we have seen the rollout of LocalLink, increased frequencies and new routes between towns and new town bus services being rolled out recently, which all seem to be popular and a success with obvious big uptick in passenger numbers.

    I often will criticise the NTA on how long it is taking to rollout projects, etc. however I do think we need to give them (and yes their partners in DB/GA/BE, etc.) praise for what they have achieved so far.

    I think it does show that the overall vision of BusConnects, while not perfect (e.g. BRT’s), is absolutely the right vision and the direction we need to go and to continue to rollout as fast as we can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I wouldn’t disagree with any of that but I think you’d also have to add a more receptive government towards investing in public transport into the mix too. That was the main stumbling block in the past, such as when the final parts of Network Direct that included some more orbital routes were not implemented.

    As far as whether there has been a 10% increase in capacity in Dublin, well it certainly is possible that it increased by close to that percentage since September 2019.

    In addition to the five phases of BusConnects implemented so far, which include brand new routes and two major new orbital routes in the N4 and W4, there were increases in service levels on bus routes 1, 9, 13, 14, 39, 39a, 40, 83 and 83a in late 2020, and the 15 & 41 became 24 hour routes in December 2019, followed by the 39a in late 2020. The latter changes delivered additional off-peak frequency but combined with the BusConnects phases they would all add up.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I wouldn’t disagree with any of that but I think you’d also have to add a more receptive government towards investing in public transport into the mix too. That was the main stumbling block in the past, such as when the final parts of Network Direct that included some more orbital routes were not implemented.

    Excellent point, non of these improvements would have been possible without the support of the government and more importantly money from the government. Subsidised fares, more buses, more drivers, etc. of course all cost lots of money.

    However I will say I don't think they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts! I think they criminally under-invested in public transport for so long that how crap it is was becoming clear to everyone. Specially younger folks who travel around Europe a lot and saw what great public transport looked like, I suspect they were getting it in the ear on the doorsteps. Along with pressure from the EU and environmental goals, I think they have finally realised that the status quo of underinvestment wasn't going to fly any more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well I think it would be fair to say that the previous government was shamed into coming up with BusConnects - as a nation we never put public transport ahead of private cars, but the need for compliance with climate targets and to be seen to be dealing with the ever worsening traffic congestion finally forced their hand.

    But you’ve only got to look at the reaction of councillors in Cork city and the hyperbolic reaction in parts of Dublin to some of the infrastructure plans to see that it will take time to bring people with them.

    Unrestricted car use is ingrained among most older people, and to change that attitude needs a lot of work, and in particular an end to the ludicrous ongoing numbers of cancelled departures on routes. People won’t give up their cars unless that changes. An entire Bus Éireann route (route 421) was cancelled in Mayo twice on recent Saturdays - that’s just not acceptable.

    I also think that the rollout of the Connecting Ireland programme and the 20% fare reductions (and 50% for young adults) are things that we can thank having a Green Party Transport Minister for. I don’t think the other parties would have done that.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    There are more 24hr services but I don't think that capacity has changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Specially younger folks who travel around Europe a lot and saw what great public transport looked like

    Great, maybe on their next trips away they can look into what a functioning housing system looks like and tell their TDs about it when they get back 👍️

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Not much of Europe has a functioning housing system anymore. Maybe Vienna if you're a citizen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    No - either the last bus broke down and they had to get a replacement from the garage, or else it’s a tracking error.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    So high quality apartments built in tall buildings with high density within walking distance of high quality public transport like Metro's, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    On the topic of 24 hour routes, is there any indication of any of the southern orbitals going 24 hours like the N4? I'd say the S2 would make the most sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Doesn't have to be particularly tall, a lot of apartments in cities like Paris are 5-6 storeys high (I mean the older inner suburbs, not the sink estate banlieues). Costs go up the higher you go. But we have crazy stuff like bungalows within a mile of O'Connell St.

    When we tried high-rise in Ballymun the density was still low due to lots of ill-considered wide open spaces which were supposedly amenities but turned into the opposite. IIRC they were easily able to fit the same population into the area using 2-storey houses and duplexes.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well I reckon that, assuming the O will also be a 24 hour route, then the S4 is the more likely candidate, amended to extend to Blackrock.

    The W4 should also be added.



  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    I'd also add the N8 route, for obvious reasons. Not sure about W4 tho, its main draw is connecting Blanch, Liffey and the Square with the residential areas around all three. Doesn't really act as feeder for city buses either



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I've just read from one of the Dublin County South threads on boards that the St Patrick's Day parade will return to Dún Laoghaire town from next year.

    There's no official details of the parades route released by DLRCC yet.

    Does that mean that some bus services running through Dún Laoghaire will have huge diversions in place for part of that day?

    If I had an idea for a temporary diversion for the 7 and 7a route in place for St Patrick's Day. I probably would divert it like where the old 8 bus route used to go either between the right turn at Monkstown Church or the bottom part of York Road up as far as Glenageary Roundabout. The 7 and 7a would then return to their normal routes when going to or from Brides Glen/Loughlinstown Park.

    I think the other routes that normally terminate at the Dart Station would probably go along Crofton Road during this time if there was a possibility that the parade could stay along George's St.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well my view re the W4 is that it would be about building connectivity - there are plenty of people working in hospitals and other locations that function on a 24 hour basis. Anyone working in them at the moment has to drive. Having the N4, W4 and S4 all operate on a 24 hour basis would provide orbital connectivity right around the city on a 24 hour basis providing viable alternatives to driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    There's a problem with the W4 that we need more bus stops between the N7 road and the Kishoge train station. Also seems that Grange View estate doesn't have a quick access to the R136 road (and the station). There are new South Dublin County Council houses at Kilcarbery Grange Avenue, and there's also no bus stop for W4 on the R136 around that that estate. Need pedestrian lights too. This would make W4 more attractive. It only only passes these estates with no good use.

    Post edited by Citrus_8 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    Seen a few newly marked bus stops on the S2 & S4.

    Some are better, e.g. Kylemore Road beside McDonalds, new bus bay is much closer to the Luas Stop.


    Somewhat worried that the new Bus Bay halfway up the Drimnagh Road near the Costa/Boots will be used only by the S4, which will then likely no longer stop at the Black Forge.

    But surely we can rely on the Bus Connects team to deliver seamless interchange between bus routes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,727 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Huge opposition against this apparently. Surely there's no way this will actually go ahead in that case? It's so depressing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,709 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    I live on this route and am excited to see it it place... When it happens I'll have a 24h bus hiome from town, no more taxi's! Plus easier to get in/out of town... Theres too many cars in the area & the cars are too big! Brennanstown Road has become a permanaent traffic jam, with people using it as a rat run. It's a 300 year old lane built for carts, and Mary in her Range Rover wants to blast up it on both sides of the white line!

    Sometimes people need to be told to cop the **** on and get rid of the cars!

    I've just sent an email of support to on that link... is that enough?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the opposition is mainly in Bray due to the proposed closure of the Herbert Rd. junction onto the N11 and the expectation that it will create a lot of extra traffic in the town heading to/from J7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Lightleader78


    The only thing I feel that is wrong with the Bus Connects program, is that it was started to early, with the impact of Covid19 lockdowns on driver training. I think that Transport For Ireland should have waited for Dublin Bus and GoAhead Ireland, to start back up their driver training, before implementing the first phase of the Bus Connects program. As the first phase saw an increase in the number of buses on the routes that were started on in that phase, from the number of buses that were on the routes that they replaced. For exmaple: the route 29A used to have 3 buses a hour during the day time off peak, were with the H1 this increased to 4 buses a hour. Plus this 4 buses a hour continues later into the evening til about 23:00, were the 29A service was reduced in the evening from the daytime timetable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    You're possibly the first person I've seen who thinks BusConnects started too early!


    It is great to see a lot of improvements already, but it really needs bus corridors and priority on roads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Lightleader78


    Do you know when the N8 is going to be started?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Likely either in the B-Spine phase or the final phase - not till the end of 2024 or early 2025 unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I have seen some construction barrier equipment located at the new bus stop marking on Benamore Road in Newtownpark Avenue this evening. I posted a photograph of it a while back which is along the new L25 route along with the 7B and 7D. I wonder does this mean a new bus shelter would be built there at the boundary wall of Avoca Hockey Pitch at Newpark Comprehensive School once work is completed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Lightleader78


    No we wanted, as they have already started to train bus drivers again last year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Some of the decision making by the NTA is simply bizarre.

    There were significant changes to both the C3 and C4 Monday to Friday schedule since Monday of this week, yet no notice has appeared anywhere nor have revised timetables been published anywhere - only by looking at bustimes.org did I realise that there were changes made.



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