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Greta Thunberg (Continued...)

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  • Options
    #1322
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    gmisk wrote: »
    Is she not 18? Should she not be done with school already?

    Looks like she turned 18 this month according to wikipedia. Maybe she did a TY type of thing.

    But yeah, not a kid anymore. Maybe she'll begin to realize that things are not always as simple as she seems to think they are.


  • Options
    #1323
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Getting worked up about the specifics of a report rather than its central message of the declining numbers of wildlife species because of human influence.

    If the specifics of the report were correct, people would pay more heed to it


  • Options
    #1324
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Germany is shutting its nuclear and fossil power plants to reduce its emissions but they are piping in gas from Russia. Not exactly a sustainable plan. They want us to reduce our cattle herd most of which is exported, so were not exactly eating all this beef. Is it just me or is this simply Germany passing the ball to someone else rather than a sustainable solution?


    Catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is NOT a theory that carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in general and from all sources increase atmospheric CO2 and therefore the temperature. It is a theory specific to the impact of the industrial economy that dug up fossil fuels loaded with carbon from previous carbon cycles that are millions of years old. This is EXTERNAL CARBON. It is not part of the current account of the carbon cycle.

    Daisy the cows respiration emissions are not a factor in the AGW equation. Put another way carbon cycle flows are not a factor in CAGW theory, a fact that is ignored by vegan diet activists who piled on to push their cause.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1325
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    If the specifics of the report were correct, people would pay more heed to it

    Lol. So it's scientific integrity that is making people hesitant to act.

    Here was I thinking it was mostly selfishness, ignorance and laziness along with a dose of bitterness that an 18 year old girl has attracted such attention.

    Why then do you think people aren't willing to accept the consensus from 97%+ of the science community and the IPCC report published by members of the scientific community from over 70 countries.


  • Options
    #1326
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Tell me how wrote: »
    L . . . .

    Why then do you think people aren't willing to accept the consensus from 97%+ of the science community and the IPCC report published by members of the scientific community from over 70 countries.


    Science is not concensus.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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    #1327
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Lol. So it's scientific integrity that is making people hesitant to act.

    Here was I thinking it was mostly selfishness, ignorance and laziness along with a dose of bitterness that an 18 year old girl has attracted such attention.

    Why then do you think people aren't willing to accept the consensus from 97%+ of the science community and the IPCC report published by members of the scientific community from over 70 countries.

    So when did Greta start reporting about the Irish wildbird population for RTE? thats what I originally commented on, nothing specific to Greta. Are you deflecting deflecting deflecting


  • Options
    #1328
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Pa ElGrande wrote: »
    Science is not concensus.

    Consensus from the scientific community that human practices are negatively impacting the environment to the level that is likely to create sustained catastrophic events impacting on the safety and quality of life for many of the people on the planet.

    Dance around it any way you want, the people who are qualified, experienced and working in this space agree with Greta's position that action is needed more than what is currently being done.


  • Options
    #1329
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Consensus from the scientific community that human practices are negatively impacting the environment to the level that is likely to create sustained catastrophic events impacting on the safety and quality of life for many of the people on the planet.

    Dance around it any way you want, the people who are qualified, experienced and working in this space agree with Greta's position that action is needed more than what is currently being done.

    Science is not consensus. We are impacting the environment, we have been doing so since our ancestors existed as a species, today there are 7 billion of us existing together on this planet. We live on multiple continents and environments across the planet and we will continue to adapt to the changes in the environment.

    Greta only demands listening to scientists who should reinforce what she believes and says anyway.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1330
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    So when did Greta start reporting about the Irish wildbird population for RTE? thats what I originally commented on, nothing specific to Greta. Are you deflecting deflecting deflecting

    You're not wrong. RTEs reporting on the environment and environmental issues in general is woeful. Increasingly they seem to have moved towards tabloid type content.

    They should be done under the trade description act for this bit of fiction imo.

    https://youtu.be/cQy_1XQWuck


  • Options
    #1331
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Pa ElGrande wrote: »
    Science is not consensus. We are impacting the environment, we have been doing so since our ancestors existed as a species, today there are 7 billion of us existing together on this planet. We live on multiple continents and environments across the planet and we will continue to adapt to the changes in the environment.

    Greta only demands listening to scientists who should reinforce what she believes and says anyway.

    Do you know what consensus means?

    There are scientists who disagree with the approach to Covid, to vaccines in general, to homsexuality, but, we as a society have adopted approaches based on the overwhelming views from people experienced and educated to comment on these issues.

    AS for the second point in bold, what do you think Greta, and others are asking for if not adapting to the changing environment?
    We are all going to die and likely get sick beforehand, that doesn't stop us trying to avoid illness rather than just dealing with the consequences.

    What a bizarre argument you are trying to make.


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    #1332
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,735 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-climate-crisis-civilisation-s-greatest-threat-1.4458591

    The Irish times today calling our state greenwashing "environmental fraud", good to see this in an editorial. All that origin green stuff is absolute bullsh*t.


  • Options
    #1333
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,735 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Do you know what consensus means?

    There are scientists who disagree with the approach to Covid, to vaccines in general, to homsexuality, but, we as a society have adopted approaches based on the overwhelming views from people experienced and educated to comment on these issues.

    AS for the second point in bold, what do you think Greta, and others are asking for if not adapting to the changing environment?
    We are all going to die and likely get sick beforehand, that doesn't stop us trying to avoid illness rather than just dealing with the consequences.

    What a bizarre argument you are trying to make.

    It's like waiting until you have heart disease until you start exercising and eating properly.


  • Options
    #1334
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    It's like waiting until you have heart disease until you start exercising and eating properly.

    Or refusing chemo to try to beat cancer because there is a Dr in Florida who says there is no point and you should use Crystal healing instead.


  • Options
    #1335
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Paddygreen wrote: »
    Greta come back, we miss you. God (if he exists) be with the days when the media was wall to wall non-stop 24-7 Greta saturation coverage. Simpler times guys.

    Don't worry paddy. Looks like you'll soon be able to recieve correspondence bearing her likeness

    The latest on Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg from newsfeed ...
    Swedish teenage environmental activist Greta Thunberg will appear on a postal stamp that will be issued in her native Sweden and is part of a series focusing on the environment. Greta

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/world/postage-stamps-to-feature-environmental-activist-greta-thunberg-1064066.html

    We can now look forward to a lot of Gretas flying around the world

    I'm sure all her fans will be delighted :D


  • Options
    #1336
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Do you know what consensus means?

    There are scientists who disagree with the approach to Covid, to vaccines in general, to homsexuality, but, we as a society have adopted approaches based on the overwhelming views from people experienced and educated to comment on these issues.

    Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

    source


    The current response to covid is political consensus and it is fracturing.

    Tell me how wrote: »
    AS for the second point in bold, what do you think Greta, and others are asking for if not adapting to the changing environment?
    We are all going to die and likely get sick beforehand, that doesn't stop us trying to avoid illness rather than just dealing with the consequences.


    Greta is a school truant who became very wealthy by being in the right place at the right time. She is todays Nongqawuse. Her anxieties are hers, her familys and friends issue they are not out concern.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0POXW4V1_k

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1337
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,735 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Or refusing chemo to try to beat cancer because there is a Dr in Florida who says there is no point and you should use Crystal healing instead.

    It's nice to have a good old Greta argument all the same, it's like the pandemic never happened


  • Options
    #1338
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Pa ElGrande wrote: »
    Greta is a school truant who became very wealthy by being in the right place at the right time. She is todays Nongqawuse. Her anxieties are hers, her familys and friends issue they are not out concern.

    I think people should work on their own insecurities instead of persistently targeting someone who is actively trying to initiate positive action for society.


  • Options
    #1339
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think people should work on their own insecurities instead of persistently targeting someone who is actively trying to initiate positive action for society.

    Is that before or after her throwing tantrums and blaming others for ruining her childhood or wtte?


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    #1340
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think people should work on their own insecurities instead of persistently targeting someone who is actively trying to initiate positive action for society.


    No. Greta in her own words. Not in any way positive.
    Greta Thunberg wrote:
    I don’t want your hope. I don’t want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. And then I want you to act. I want you to act as you would in a crisis. I want you to act as if the house was on fire, because it is.

    Life is hard, ignore Greta and teach your children to cope with the inevitable threats of the world, what is the point of teaching them to "be afraid, be very afraid"?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBf2PU_Bvog

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1341
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Pa ElGrande wrote: »
    No. Greta in her own words. Not in any way positive.
    gozunda wrote: »
    Is that before or after her throwing tantrums and blaming others for ruining her childhood or wtte?

    Is calling people out for their actions which will impact her future throwing a tantrum?

    Don't farmers do the same when it comes to vegans advocating for meat free diets?

    Is anyone who lodges a complaint to a planning authority about a proposed development 'throwing a tantrum'?


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    #1342
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Is calling people out for their actions which will impact her future throwing a tantrum?

    Don't farmers do the same when it comes to vegans advocating for meat free diets?

    Is anyone who lodges a complaint to a planning authority about a proposed development 'throwing a tantrum'?


    There is a reason that we don’t look to teenagers like Ms. Thunberg for guidance on complex issues. They just echo back what they’ve been told by adults, with less nuance and maturity. By no global measure of social and economic well-being have we failed children. In Ms. Thunbergs lifetime alone the world has generally gotten much better. Have a look at the primary school completion rate.
    Poverty has declined globally, from 1.7 billion people in 1999 to 767 million in 2013, a drop in the global poverty rate from 28 percent in 1999 to 11 per cent in 2013. The most significant progress was seen in Eastern and South-Eastern Asia, where the rate declined from 35 per cent in 1999 to 3 per cent in 2013.

    source


    Ms Thunberg personal issues are not mine or yours. Stop feeding your children apocalyptic nonsense, if the bogeyman proves a significant challenge, then today’s youth will have more resources and technology to grapple with it than any other generation in the history of mankind.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1343
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Is calling people out for their actions which will impact her future throwing a tantrum? Don't farmers do the same when it comes to vegans advocating for meat free diets? Is anyone who lodges a complaint to a planning authority about a proposed development 'throwing a tantrum'?

    Depends how you do it I suppose but having a literal tantrum and blaming all the adults in the room who attended the U.N. Climate Action Summit for ruining your childhood would certainly fit that tbf.

    And I know you don't like him and I dont agree with most of his conservative opinions either but this guy was not wrong in this instance.

    https://youtu.be/8RVooYlyl20?t=2m1s

    And to cut the standard retort - it's not "undermining her message" - in this video he sums up what's wrong with what she is saying where she decides to ignore the UNs goal of achieving Net zero by 2050 and replaces it with something else entirely ...


  • Options
    #1344
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    gozunda wrote: »
    Depends how you do it I suppose but having a literal tantrum and blaming all the adults in the room who attended the U.N. Climate Action Summit for ruining your childhood would certainly fit that tbf.

    And I know you don't like him and I dont agree with most of his conservative opinions either but this guy was not wrong in this instance.

    https://youtu.be/8RVooYlyl20?t=2m1s

    And to cut the standard retort - it's not "undermining her message" - in this video he sums up what's wrong with what she is saying where she decides to ignore the UNs goal of achieving Net zero by 2050 and replaces it with something else entirely ...
    Ironic how much energy (years now and hundreds upon hundreds of posts) you spend mocking a young climate activist for getting emotional about an actual serious issue when you look at your own embarrassing temper tantrums in the vegan forum on this site tbh, running to tell a grown-up in the Feedback forum whenever they're mean to you or use your trigger words etc :pac:


  • Options
    #1345
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    gozunda wrote: »
    Depends how you do it I suppose but having a literal tantrum and blaming all the adults in the room who attended the U.N. Climate Action Summit for ruining your childhood would certainly fit that tbf.

    And I know you don't like him and I dont agree with most of his conservative opinions either but this guy was not wrong in this instance.

    https://youtu.be/8RVooYlyl20?t=2m1s

    And to cut the standard retort - it's not "undermining her message" - in this video he sums up what's wrong with what she is saying where she decides to ignore the UNs goal of achieving Net zero by 2050 and replaces it with something else entirely ...

    Lol.
    Yu sure you want to listen to this guy on matters environmental.



  • Options
    #1346
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Lol.
    Yu sure you want to listen to this guy on matters environmental.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9FGRkqUdf8&ab_channel=HuskyRockatansky

    No just on greta and what is blatantly wrong with gretas claims that she wants 'real zero' vs as opposed to the IPCCs 'net zero'

    And no thats not 'mocking btw. That's simply calling out what is said.

    As I said I'd disagree with a lot of his political opinions but here - on our greta he certainly was not wrong.

    You might note he states acceptance of Climate change and the IPCC so I'll have to give him that as well.

    Here it is again just in case you missed that

    https://youtu.be/8RVooYlyl20?t=2m1s


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    #1347
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Tell me how wrote: »
    You really expect a young girl to walk in and you you the solutions so you can continue driving your SUV around the city?

    Like you can just ignore the problem when there isn't an easy solution.

    No but if you a young girl walked in giving no solutions, yelling 'listen to the science' which I already do, then I'd tell her to go back to school, go to University, get a degree in a hard science and work towards coming up with a solution.

    The 'war' on climate change will be won by scientists, not activists.


  • Options
    #1348
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Tell me how wrote: »
    It is if you are willing to admit you are motivated primarily by selfish desires.

    Everyone is motivated by selfish desires. It's human nature.


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    #1349
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    ]. . . .

    The 'war' on climate change will be won by scientists, not activists.


    king-canute.jpg

    Climate is not static and wherever point you live in history the climate of the region is changing due to natural variation. The last major change in climate happened with the ending of the Pleistocene ~13000 years ago when the great ice age ended giving us the chance to thrive. Since then the climate had been relatively stable. We do well in periods of warming, less so when in gets cold and all the evidence shows the for the last 200 years we have coped with climate change exceptionally well with deaths from climate related caused down dramatically since the turn of the 20th century while at the same time seeing massive general improvements in human welfare.


    The-Younger-Dryas-1024x763.jpg

    Declaring war on climate is the same as declaring war on the tides, it is not something that mankind can ever control.


    The so called war has nothing to do with climate, it is a war on energy derived from from carbon sources that are squestered in the earths crust.


    This drive begn in the 1970s as a result of the OPEC blocade and a realisation by western governments that they needed alternative sources of energy, that's when a major push for nuclear energy started. In parallel there was the campaign for nuclear disarmament (CND) which was a significant movement at the time, nobody really wanted to die of cancer due to radiation from nuclear fallout. The communist regimes collapse at the end of the 1980s, and many socialists were left without a cause, they did not go away they moved into the environmentalists and woke culture we experience today and they use scientism as the justification to do what they they want to do anyway.


    Today we have the situation where politics is promoting feel good energy generation sources like wind and solar to provide electricity to power electric vechiles, industry and heat homes. In doing so they are destabilising the grid as these generation sources are random and the product must be consumed in the here and now, the energy cannot be stored economically at scale. In Ireland we are dependent on gas, coal and nuclear energy (UK interconnect) to maintain electrical grid stability and availability of electrical power, wind generation is too unreliable for that purpose, adding more won't help.

    In about 5 years time the world is going to wake up to the fact that renewables are not working and will never work. And that EROEI of fossil is diminishing pushing up the real costs. This documentary about nuclear energy may change the way you see the greening of the planet and this is the direction the debate is shifting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOeoXvRQPiI

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Options
    #1350
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think people should work on their own insecurities instead of persistently targeting someone who is actively trying to initiate positive action for society.
    She is an angry kid with a negative attitude, I find nothing about her positive.
    If you want positive action for society build hospitals full of therapists and psychologists.

    If you want to do something about environment and nature don't listen to a kid for advice, carry out your own campaigns in your realm, I'm sure there loads of great ideas on boards.


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    #1351
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    No but if you a young girl walked in giving no solutions, yelling 'listen to the science' which I already do, then I'd tell her to go back to school, go to University, get a degree in a hard science and work towards coming up with a solution.

    The 'war' on climate change will be won by scientists, not activists.

    If you truly listen to the science you will recognize the praise which the science community had and still has for Greta in increasing the conversation around climate change in 2019.

    As Greta is point out at the moment, that largely extended to parliaments making promises but not necessarily laws to enact change, but, no activist saw their goal met at the first attempt.

    It is very curious why someone who pertains to listen to science would be bothered by someone being such a vocal advocate for the work of scientists.

    As for go back to school, and get a degree etc. That is such a closeted view on personal development and purpose. I have no doubt that in time Greta will get a degree, she has already gone back to school, and I would point out that there a great many people walking around with degrees who haven't had the impact which she has had to this point in her life.

    What is the greater value of education? To 'attain' it? Or to use it to have an impact? If it is the latter (as I believe it is), then look at what she has done without it!

    As for your final sentence, well, duh, that is her point......
    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Everyone is motivated by selfish desires. It's human nature.

    Don't agree with this. At all.
    People are motivated by personal desires, but that does not necessarily mean that these desires are inherently selfish.
    If someone really wants to be a teacher all their life because they fell strongly about the value of imparting particular skills in to kids at a young age, that is a personal desire where the beneficiaries are largely the kids they teach.

    If a person wants to be a university Professor so they can add the title to their name and tell people that they have tenure, but they don't really care about educating and will delegate a lot of the work around this to their assistants then theirs is primarily a selfish desire.


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