The Man responsible for the Titanic's sinking.

Huntergonzo · 26-03-2020 12:40am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah I've seen it then. No it implies a very serious allegation against the crew.

I'd love to know exactly where the lifeboats from the titanic went after the were stored in a loft in New York. There is a suggestion that some of them were used to increase the life boats on the Olympic when it needed more life boats to comply with the new regulations.

It was grim stuff from Californian point of view alright, probably a bit overboard (no pun intended), but I enjoyed it all the same.

I have no idea what became of the lifeboats to be honest, I don't think I've ever read anything about that. It would make sense for them to be used on the Olympic provided they were still in good nick.

Itssoeasy · 26-03-2020 12:55am

You know it was an obvious tragedy at the time but it didn't stop after the inquiries ended. The look out Frederick fleet took his own life years after the sinking. I mean it's easy for us to say that captain smith or murdooch was at fault or whoever but captain smith had been at sea for years and was the highest ranking captain in the company.

He was acting not unlike captains at sea at the turn of the 20th century. He had even said years before that shipbuilding had advanced so far to the point that ships were unsinkable. I mean we have to see it for the mindset at the time. The class of liners built by the white star line were wonders of their time.

Infernal Racket · 26-03-2020 1:00am

Kate Winslets boobies looked lovely in it.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 26-03-2020 1:25am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That fire is known to have been out by the day of the sinking. It may have weakened the bulkheads around it but it may have only hasened the sinking if it did fail. The ship was doomed when the iceberg separated the hull plates beyond the four compartments that it could stay aloft were breached. The bulkheads not sealed at the top and the fact they didn't go to the top deck of the ship. I think they only went to C deck but I'd have to check.

I can assure you that Titanic was never aloft.

M.T. Cranium · 26-03-2020 1:32am

"Iceberg, over there to our right."

joeguevara · 26-03-2020 1:40am

I don’t want to just barge into this thread but it is important not to anchorage people to speculate on potential saboateurs of the titanic. Imaging the greef that his family must feel. Watery to do with speculation anyway? It is ferry unfair to just make up accusations especially as it is likely that he had a wharf and kids (Proabably buoys). We should take this opportunaty to just put it best.

Sam Quentin · 26-03-2020 3:37am

joeguevara wrote: »

I don’t want to just barge into this thread but it is important not to anchorage people to speculate on potential saboateurs of the titanic. Imaging the greef that his family must feel. Watery to do with speculation anyway? It is ferry unfair to just make up accusations especially as it is likely that he had a wharf and kids (Proabably buoys). We should take this opportunaty to just put it best.

I remember when I was about 18 and supposedly mature!? Anyway I was in my gf house at the time and her mum was sitting with us watching the tv.. anyway anyway the news cum on and yir man said 3 seamen are still missing.....I burst out laughing and couldn't stop kinda snots and all. They didn't know why,.well maybe yir ones mother did I dunno!?!? :pac: :pac:

joeguevara · 26-03-2020 3:41am

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I remember when I was about 18 and supposedly mature!? Anyway I was in my gf house at the time and her mum was sitting with us watching the tv.. anyway anyway the news cum on and yir man said 3 seamen are still missing.....I burst out laughing and couldn't stop kinda snots and all. They didn't know why,.well maybe yir ones mother did I dunno!?!? :pac: :pac:

Ah come on. This is a serious thread and you are making crude jokes about seamen. I really can’t swallow that. You have sunk to a whole new low..

joeguevara · 26-03-2020 3:42am

My grandfather was there when the titanic sank…he shouted 3 times that it was gonna sink until they Finally kicked him out of the movie theater

Sam Quentin · 26-03-2020 4:10am

joeguevara wrote: »

Ah come on. This is a serious thread and you are making crude jokes about seamen. I really can’t swallow that. You have sunk to a whole new low..

I know I know am sorry.... Yir one asked me later why was I laughing,.and I said am sorry but I could picture the seamen dancing before they drowned and it reminded me of an episode of Come Dancing...... That totally confused her

Still waters · 26-03-2020 8:37am

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Kate Winslets boobies looked lovely in it.

She was top notch totty that time

Itssoeasy · 26-03-2020 10:14am

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

"Iceberg, over there to our right."

Wouldn't have had the same kick MT in the movie.

Itssoeasy · 26-03-2020 10:43am

Billy Immense Mustang wrote: »

I can assure you that Titanic was never aloft.

Clearly I meant afloat.

the beer revolu · 26-03-2020 11:39am

joeguevara wrote: »

My grandfather was there when the titanic sank…he shouted 3 times that it was gonna sink until they Finally kicked him out of the movie theater

That was vaguely amusing - the first time it was posted in this thread.

joeguevara · 26-03-2020 11:59am

the beer revolu wrote: »

That was vaguely amusing - the first time it was posted in this thread.

Apologies. I’m new to this thread. I thought a pun would be a good way to break the ice.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 27-03-2020 1:07am

The California was anchored and surrounded in ice with her fires put out. Like what has been mentioned before her Officers did consider the white rockets to be company calls and not distress signals. They thought Olympic was in the area at the time, passing the Titanic on her way to Southampton.

However they did consult with Lord the Captain of the ship who was sleeping in the chartroom on two separate occasions. One of them remarking that a ship doesn't keep firing rockets off for no reason.

They commented at the American inquiry that the ship had taken on a queer looking position in the water.

Huntergonzo · 27-03-2020 1:35pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The California was anchored and surrounded in ice with her fires put out. Like what has been mentioned before her Officers did consider the white rockets to be company calls and not distress signals. They thought Olympic was in the area at the time, passing the Titanic on her way to Southampton.

However they did consult with Lord the Captain of the ship who was sleeping in the chartroom on two separate occasions. One of them remarking that a ship doesn't keep firing rockets off for no reason.

They commented at the American inquiry that the ship had taken on a queer looking position in the water.

The Californian's reaction to the situation was strange to say the least, and plenty has been wrote and said about it.

For me, it boils down to 2 things, 1. 2nd Officer Stone was too weak in not forcing the issue and 2. Captain Lord was bafflingly indifferent to the report of white rockets.

Maybe he was exhausted from a long day's work and felt he'd done his duty in informing the Titanic of field ice which forced them to stop for the night. But I can't understand why he wouldn't even bother to investigate the rockets, seems quite negligent.

The other big question which will never be answered is just how close were they to the Titanic. Could be anywhere from 8-30 miles depending on who you believe. This was a time before GPS and we know that Boxhall got the Titanic's position wrong by almost 15 miles.

But what we do know (because they said it themselves), is that the Californian's crew saw 'a ship', which stopped and seemed to out her lights out at 11.40pm (the time Titanic struck the berg), which fired 8 white rockets and seemed to be listing.

They couldn't have been looking at anything but the Titanic, and must have been somewhere between 10-15 miles away.

Given the circumstances of the night, I still think the Californian would have struggled to arrive at the scene before the Titanic disappeared below the water but they certainly would have arrived before the Carpathia and possibly could have saved more lives although I'm no expert on 1912 maritime rescue so I could be very wrong on that.

Finally, just to acknowledge I think the Californian deserves a lot of criticism for their inaction, but I also will concede that it's very easy to criticise them after the fact. I'd like to think that I'd have been more proactive in Lord or Stone's shoes but at the end of the day, I or anybody else could just as easily have done the same thing they did = nothing.

You just never know how you're going to react until you're in the hot seat!

Itssoeasy · 30-06-2022 4:12pm

I know I’m posting in a thread two years after the last post but last night I decided to reread some of the testimony from the British enquiry which happened 110 years ago this month, and Captain Stanley Lord’s testimony really didn’t help himself. He tripped himself up terrible and then he wasn’t made to look great when he apparently contradicting US testimony was put to him.

mikethecop · 01-07-2022 11:23am

Is this peak captain hindsight barry ?

yes it is, other barry

growleaves · 01-07-2022 11:45am

@JustAThought 'Of course the issue with the RIVETERS and the political/ sociological climate at the time in Belfast was never discussed in any film - too hot a topic. The specialised tradesmen and labourers who built the boat in BELFAST allegedly had seams of the interior and exterior bulkheads that were purposefully not riveted together correctly - another major contributor to the failure of the bulkheads and leter confirmed after footage of the wreck on the seafloor was made.'

Can you expand on this? Is there a book that discusses this historical context?

JustAThought · 04-07-2022 10:53pm

Hi - I’ve been off boards for months if not a year ao I’m very sorry if this is a late reply. There is good news and bad news. There IS a considerable section written on this and I used have the book ( lost in several countries moves) but I can’t remember the name of the book. It had a red cover with an image of the front page of a newspaper of the sinking as a sleeve - not much to go on. It was a very well researched book - where the notes and citations were chapters in themselves. If I could remember the name of it I’d highly recommend it !!! I went a few years back to the Titanic Museum in Belfast thinking I’d surely be able to replace jt and get a copy there but their museum shop reading material was really poor and focused on children oddly / just dreadful. A copywright library like Trinity would surely have a copy - if you had access or knew someone with readers card that could get you in. Thou they invented google - I’ll do a search for you later and see if i can narrow it down.

JustAThought · 04-07-2022 11:12pm

There is a newly written & recently published book on the Titanic that came out last year (2021) but it hs nothing about the riviters in it. It is a fluffy and interesting read thou and takes a new perspective - it looks at some of the survivors and does a bio on them and their background, experience in the night, some details of their testimony at the tribunal and how they engaged with the media at the time and what happen to them after.

Its called ’Shadow of the Titanic’ by Andrew Wilson.

An interesting light read and new perspective. Cancel a nights takeaway and treat yourself!

FoxyVixen · 05-07-2022 10:46pm

Screenshot_20220705-224438_Samsung Internet.jpg

Is this the book Justforthought?

Cookie_Monster · 06-07-2022 3:02am

"The worlds greatest sea disaster" - what? It's not even in the top ten by lives lost (including ww2 ships sunk with civilians on board)

Brid Hegarty · 08-07-2022 11:00am

@DEFTLEFTHAND At 11.40pm an iceberg was reported dead ahead, half a mile out and Murdoch made a fatal error.

A half mile away??! I heard it took less than 40 seconds to hit.

Anyway, I'd be more interested in whether Mr Murdoch really used his gun that night or not.

The Man responsible for the Titanic's sinking.

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