Super stressed out about ever becoming fluent

MaryKirwan · 30-08-2012 8:22pm #1

I've been studying Irish a lot for the last few months and working my way up from doing really simple things to higher level Secondary school stuff, because I want to become a primary school teacher and I'm applying next year to attempt to get into St. Pats. I thought I was doing well and learning things every day, but now that I've started doing Ardleibhéal work I'm panicking, because I'm really only good at straight forward sentences and learning new vocabulary. When I read anything that's at the same standard as reading an English article, I don't even understand the structure of the sentences half the time.

Has anybody here put in the time and effort and really excelled at Irish?
o_o I really need some kind of hope, I'm beginning to think I'll never get to be what I want to be.

Enkidu · 30-08-2012 11:09pm

Don't worry too much Mary, learning to read continuous prose is a very different skill and takes a good while to become comfortable with it. It does eventually get easier, but it can take a few months.:)

Has anybody here put in the time and effort and really excelled at Irish?

Yeah, I just read and read an read, for months. Now, I can read Irish from two centuries ago without a dictionary. I know it can be a bit deflating (I experienced what you're feeling with Persian), but it's just a new stage in your learning, it's just the shock of going from the high end of level-1 to the low-end of level-2. You'll get there in time!:)

P. Breathnach · 31-08-2012 8:16am

People have different learning styles, and what works for one person might not particularly suit a different person. You need to find the study strategy that suits you.

It might be that listening to a lot of Irish would work better for you than reading. You can hear a good deal of relatively accessible Irish on Radio na Life. You could use it as a sound background while you are getting on with life's activities (not treating it as concentrated study) and you might absorb something of a feel for the structure of the language. A bit like osmosis.

Or you might find it helpful to have somebody spend a couple of hours with you explaining the structure of the language in a formal way.

somairle · 31-08-2012 4:12pm

I have been learning since christmas 2007 from scratch (didn't grow up in Ireland) and I am only just getting to a stage where I can understand most conversational Irish without reading subtitles. So if you want to take any hope from that is that you probably didn't have to spend a couple of years learning the real basics.

Oh and also I'm real lazy so I don't do much formal study, I probably only do on average an hour a week but I echo what P. Breathnach says above listen to Raidió na Life, sometimes I'll understand pretty much all of it, but sometimes non, its strange like that it just takes practice. Also I agree have a proper learning strategy, don't leave it to chance like me, have a structured learning plan. I could of been fluent by now if I had of tried!

mr chips · 31-08-2012 8:37pm

Don't panic Mary - there'll always be times where you feel a bit overwhelmed, or that you've "hit a wall". It's far more important to take encouragement from what you've achieved so far and not berate yourself for what you don't yet understand. It will come to you! The more you can expose yourself to the language and to fluent speakers, the better your "feel" for the structures & rules will be.

Plus, I would advise not to be overly concerned about acquiring an in-depth knowledge of the grammatical ins & outs. Yes, it is important, but nowhere near as important as giving yourself the confidence and freedom to express yourself. Speaking comes before reading and is a more fundamental language skill and the former will assist you with the latter. Forget about how many mistakes you think you're making (or how often you'll make the same mistakes!!) - this happens to everyone and you'll be no different. If you can find out about any appropriate dianchúrsa (short intensive course) that might be available over a weekend, or about any conversation groups in your area, accessing either/both should be of great use to you.

deirdremf · 31-08-2012 9:46pm

MaryKirwan wrote: »

I've been studying Irish a lot for the last few months and working my way up from doing really simple things to higher level Secondary school stuff, because I want to become a primary school teacher and I'm applying next year to attempt to get into St. Pats. I thought I was doing well and learning things every day, but now that I've started doing Ardleibhéal work I'm panicking, because I'm really only good at straight forward sentences and learning new vocabulary. When I read anything that's at the same standard as reading an English article, I don't even understand the structure of the sentences half the time.

Has anybody here put in the time and effort and really excelled at Irish?
o_o I really need some kind of hope, I'm beginning to think I'll never get to be what I want to be.

I. Maybe you are jumping in and reading at too high a level too soon - what texts are you reading that cause problems? Write out specific things that you have difficulty with, and post them up.

2. From time to time, when you can't understand a sentence, write it out phrase by phrase to see which bits you understand and which you don't.

eg. a) Remember that the particle "a" has many different meanings. A lot of people miss the reference with this particle. To give one example, a theach, a teach and a dteach will all refer back to something previous, male female and plural respectively. It's easy to miss the reference when you are struggling through a text!

eg b) Relative clauses need to be parsed carefully to understand why they are written as they are, direct or indirect. A difficult point in Irish.

3. I always tell people to get Mícheál Ó Siadhail's course Learning Irish, with the cds. I think it is still the best there is. Work through it and listen to the cds.

4. Ná bí ag scríobh anseo as béarla - bí ag cleachtadh do chuid Gaeilge i dTeach na nGealt seachas do chuid Béarla anseo!!!

MaryKirwan · 01-09-2012 11:15am

Bhuel, bhí mé ag léamh rud ar bith bhí mé ábalta chun teacht ar (I could find?) Rudaí cosúil le bonnleibhéal Gaeilge sa scoil, ach tar éis tamaill bhí sé ró éasca. Thóg me Árdleibhéal ar scoil, mar sin chinn mé (I found?) páipéar 2 ar an Leaving Cert 2010 agus it made me realise (???) go bhfuil mé úafásach O_O Cheap mé go bhfuil mo Gaeilge go maith nuair a bhí na abairtí simplí. I could do a whole A4 page of translating and only have to look up two or three words. Then at higher level I was looking up 10 or 15 for each paragraph. Agus ansin thosaigh mé ag smaoineamh faoi na canúintí agus cé chomh tapa a bheadh an cainteoir, agus tá ag aistriú an Gaeilge go dtí an Bhéarla níos éasca ná mar an bhéarla go dtí an Gaeilge. So even if I understand what they say to me, I know I won't be able to reply with ease. I'll be pausing to think of each word and translating in my head, and then stumbling because the words won't go the same order as in English.

Tigerandahalf · 01-09-2012 11:42am

An léann tú an nuachtán Foinse? Bíonn sé ar fáil gach Céadaoin in Irish Independent. Tá sé an-úsáideach chun foclóir agus frásaí a fhoghlaim. Níl an léitheoireacht casta agus tá piosaí ann faoi faisean, spórt agus cúrsaî reatha. Scríobhann Daithí Ó Sé agus Hector ann.
Tá sé deacair Gaeilge a labhairt mar níl sí timpeall orainn. Ach éist le TG4 agus an radió. Déan cúrsa freisin. Má tá fonn ort bunmhúinteoireacht a dhéanamh déan cleachtadh Gaeilge a labhairt agus bí in ann cur síos a dhéanamh ar tú féin, do chlann, agus araile. Féach ar an suíomh idirlíne educationposts.ie freisin. Bíonn a lán daoine ar an message board ag iarraidh áit a bhaint amach sna cúrsaí bhunmhúinteoireachta.

Níl mo chuid Gaeilge féin ar fheabhas, mar sin tá brón orm má tá botúin sa phíosa thíos. Táim ag cleachtadh chomh maith!

Gumbi · 02-09-2012 11:50am

You won't become fluent in a few months. And to be perfectly honest, true fluency won't come for years. If you work hard, though, you can definitely excel and have a good grasp of it fairly soon.

mr chips · 04-09-2012 11:32am

MaryKirwan wrote: »

Bhuel, bhí mé ag léamh rud ar bith bhí mé ábalta chun teacht ar (I could find?) Rudaí cosúil le bonnleibhéal Gaeilge sa scoil, ach tar éis tamaill bhí sé ró éasca. Thóg me Árdleibhéal ar scoil, mar sin chinn mé (I found?) páipéar 2 ar an Leaving Cert 2010 agus it made me realise (???) go bhfuil mé úafásach O_O Cheap mé go bhfuil mo Gaeilge go maith nuair a bhí na abairtí simplí. I could do a whole A4 page of translating and only have to look up two or three words. Then at higher level I was looking up 10 or 15 for each paragraph. Agus ansin thosaigh mé ag smaoineamh faoi na canúintí agus cé chomh tapa a bheadh an cainteoir, agus tá ag aistriú an Gaeilge go dtí an Bhéarla níos éasca ná mar an bhéarla go dtí an Gaeilge. So even if I understand what they say to me, I know I won't be able to reply with ease. I'll be pausing to think of each word and translating in my head, and then stumbling because the words won't go the same order as in English.

Really, try not to let this deter you. It's just part of the process of learning a language, and pretty much everybody goes through the same sort of experience when they're trying to attain a higher level of fluency - understanding a lot more than you seem able to "create" for yourself, going through the phase of mentally translating stuff word for word, berating yourself because "I should know this!" ... Interestingly, young children have none of the sense of discomfort/anxiety/embarrassment that adults put themselves through - none of the "oh god I'm so crap at this and I sound stupid" that we're so prone to. They just get on with it and use what they have without thinking or worrying about it.

The solution is practice, time and being patient with yourself. As you stick with it more and more, it'll gradually become easier and you'll get quicker, till you reach the point where it's automatic and you're effectively thinking in Irish. But it is a gradual process rather than a step-change. Having said that, if you put the time into listening and speaking as much as you can, you will eventually reach a point where the penny drops that you are a lot more fluent than you used to be. For me, that happened when I turned on the radio in the car and sat through a whole interview for about ten minutes, only suddenly realising when it was over that I hadn't even noticed it was being conducted through Irish - hey, I understood all that!

You've the right attitude in that you've obviously dedicated a fair bit of time and effort to getting where you are now, which is very important. Don't let that go to waste! There will always be times where you end up frustrated or feeling like you are getting nowhere fast. Just stick with it and you'll win.

Super stressed out about ever becoming fluent

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