ASTI ballot

deiseindublin · 25-10-2018 5:13pm

TUI closes this evening so we might get word before the night is out.

Sir123 · 25-10-2018 5:28pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

TUI closes this evening so we might get word before the night is out.

Hopefully Deise!

deiseindublin · 25-10-2018 7:24pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

TUI closes this evening so we might get word before the night is out.

Absolutely soul destroying, 53% Yes.

judeboy101 · 25-10-2018 7:27pm

Thanks tui

http://www.tui.ie/news/tui-members-vote-to-accept-proposal-on-new-entrant-salary-scale-in-context-of-unions-ongoing-campaign.13362.html

History Queen · 25-10-2018 7:41pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Thanks tui

http://www.tui.ie/news/tui-members-vote-to-accept-proposal-on-new-entrant-salary-scale-in-context-of-unions-ongoing-campaign.13362.html

I'm a TUI member and actually cannot believe the shortsightedness and sheer stupidity of over half our members....

Forevermore NQTs can say justifiably thay they were sold out by their unions. But not years ago during the croke park votes... Now...today...in this ballot, teachers have officially accepted inequality and cemented it.

Full disclosure.... I was a LPT until I was moved on to the old pay scale earlier this year because of service I had back in 2009 so I know full well whatthat reduced paycheck feels like and the feeling of burning inequality as you look around the staffroom

judeboy101 · 25-10-2018 7:53pm

History Queen wrote: »

I'm a TUI member and actually cannot believe the shortsightedness and sheer stupidity of over half our members....

Forevermore NQTs can say justifiably thay they were sold out by their unions. But not years ago during the croke park votes... Now...today...in this ballot, teachers have officially accepted inequality and cemented it.

Full disclosure.... I was a LPT until I was moved on to the old pay scale earlier this year because of service I had back in 2009 so I know full well whatthat reduced paycheck feels like and the feeling of burning inequality as you look around the staffroom

Id love to know the breakdown between secondary and non secondary votes.

Sir123 · 25-10-2018 7:56pm

I am extremely disappointed in the TUI. Let's hope tomorrow will be better news for INTO.. Hopefully their members made the right decision to end this discrimiation once and for all.

As History Queen has stated, this is an example of truly being sold down the river. Current LPTs (myself being one), and future LPTs will always look back and be told TUI helped to copper-fasten pay inequality.. They were the first to vote and accepted.

I was at a union meeting recently when one member said, it really was us wasn't it that brought in this two tier pay scale? This person was quickly shot down by others and told that the government cut the pay of new entrants after the unions signed up to Croke Park.

You often hear fake news of, older teachers hung us out to dry to save their pension etc, which I know isn't true.

Back on point now, the TUI is an example of a union that has said "Pay Inequality is Okay.. Let's have it for another few years or maybe permanently.. as long as increments aren't touched I'm good"...

Once again, I'm very disappointed in TUI. To those of you here that are TUI and voted NO, thank you. I appreciate it. Let's hope tomorrow is a better day.

History Queen · 25-10-2018 7:59pm

Sir123 wrote: »

I am extremely disappointed in the TUI. Let's hope tomorrow will be better news for INTO.. Hopefully their members made the right decision to end this discrimiation once and for all.

As History Queen has stated, this is an example of truly being sold down the river. Current LPTs (myself being one), and future LPTs will always look back and be told TUI helped to copper-fasten pay inequality.. They were the first to vote and accepted.

I was at a union meeting recently when one member said, it really was us wasn't it that brought in this two tier pay scale? Quickly, thia person was quickly shot down by others and told that the government cut the pay of new entrants after the unions signed up to Croke Park.

I was a little younger at the time and knew this was the case. You often hear fake news of, older teachers hung us out to dry to save their pension etc.

Back on point now, the TUI is an example of a union that has said "Pay Inequality is Okay.. Let's have it for another few years or maybe permanently.. as long as increments aren't touched I'm good"...

Once again, I'm very disappointed in TUI. Let's hope tomorrow is a better day.

Much better put than I could....I blame my lack of eloquence on the shock of realising just how shortsighted some people can be

km79 · 25-10-2018 8:16pm

I am shocked that any of ye are shocked!

Sir123 · 25-10-2018 8:21pm

km79 wrote: »

I am shocked that any of ye are shocked!

I was trying to be hopeful lol. Probably the same will happen tomorrow now.... won't be shocked then.

wirelessdude01 · 25-10-2018 8:42pm

Anyone got any idea what the turnout was?

Millem · 25-10-2018 8:55pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Anyone got any idea what the turnout was?

My email says 6,542 voted.

evolving_doors · 25-10-2018 9:13pm

Millem wrote: »

My email says 6,542 voted.

How many members in the TUI?

evolving_doors · 25-10-2018 9:14pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Thanks tui

http://www.tui.ie/news/tui-members-vote-to-accept-proposal-on-new-entrant-salary-scale-in-context-of-unions-ongoing-campaign.13362.html

They're saying that the 'Campaign' will continue. What 'Campaign' is that?

acequion · 25-10-2018 9:17pm

TUI are a joke of a union and as long as they exist teachers will never claw back any rights. :mad:

They sold us out on everything! First to hop into bed with the Govt on every one of the agreements after a few token rejections. First to accept that joke of a new JC. Pulling the rug out from under ASTI by accepting our turn coat members against ICTU rules and taking the wind out of our battle sails.Happy to do SLAR meetings out of school hours when even the Govt agrees that they can begin in school time. Useless!!

I feel very sorry for the genuine fighters in TUI but something,somewhere is very much amiss with a union leadership that will never take on the Govt. And by all accounts officials were going around talking up this deal despite the supposed neutral stance.

The only hope now is a rejection from INTO and I wouldn't hold my breath.:(

amacca · 25-10-2018 9:25pm

Its insane that two separate unions represent the same sector.

The Govt don't even need to employ a divide and conquer strategy. Teachers are already pre-divided for them.

Of course its not just that, so many individual members with little or no backbone imo, expect others to do the heavy lifting for them while they sit back. Govt must be laughing their holes off when theres talk of teacher unions putting their foot down etc.

amacca · 25-10-2018 9:26pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

They're saying that the 'Campaign' will continue. What 'Campaign' is that?

The campaign for saying one thing and doing another. The PR campaign.

shenanagans · 25-10-2018 9:29pm

Give it a few years. Surely the teachers being screwed now and since 2011 can initiate changes to pensions or salaries in the future.

When the scales are more evenly balanced in a few years. Surely proposals to improve terms for post 2011teachers could pass. There'll be more post 2011voters to ensure it passes.

Revenge. The old teachers screwed the youth. So in ten years pass changes to screw them. Change their salaries/pensions to even things up??

Possible??

evolving_doors · 25-10-2018 9:31pm

This comes at a time when the Department of Education have been more instrumental in shutting schools down than any Union.

school-building-concerns-full-list-of-42-affected-schools-to-be-examined-for-structural-safety-37453735.html

evolving_doors · 25-10-2018 9:33pm

shenanagans wrote: »

Give it a few years. Surely the teachers being screwed now and since 2011 can initiate changes to pensions or salaries in the future.

When the scales are more evenly balanced in a few years. Surely proposals to improve terms for post 2011teachers could pass. There'll be more post 2011voters to ensure it passes.

Revenge. The old teachers screwed the youth. So in ten years pass changes to screw them. Change their salaries/pensions to even things up??

Possible??

What do you mean by that?

shenanagans · 25-10-2018 9:36pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

These unfair terms have been tolerated since 2011.

Teachers in 2011 stood by and watched as their colleagues and future colleagues got screwed. Sad but true.

53% of voters just screwed their colleagues.

evolving_doors · 25-10-2018 9:41pm

shenanagans wrote: »

These unfair terms have been tolerated since 2011.

Teachers in 2011 stood by and watched as their colleagues and future colleagues got screwed. Sad but true.

53% of voters just screwed their colleagues.

Ahh but it's in the " context of union's ongoing campaign".

amacca · 25-10-2018 9:41pm

shenanagans wrote: »

Give it a few years. Surely the teachers being screwed now and since 2011 can initiate changes to pensions or salaries in the future.

When the scales are more evenly balanced in a few years. Surely proposals to improve terms for post 2011teachers could pass. There'll be more post 2011voters to ensure it passes.

Revenge. The old teachers screwed the youth. So in ten years pass changes to screw them. Change their salaries/pensions to even things up??

Possible??

Thats mostly bull**** in my experience....the old teachers didn't screw the younger teachers per se.....I'm sure there will be others can put it more concisely/eloquently.....When CP was accepted unions/union members hands tied and Govt screwed younger teachers......Govt side behaved in a very underhand fashion and teachers were too weak as a whole.....You want to win a dirty fight you have to fight dirty...be willing to roll up your sleeves and make sacrifices...the thing is its more of a sacrifice for some than others ....for some of those older teachers losing pay that also means not paying off a massive mortgage on an overpriced house (again a fault of our political class) and losing a roof over their heads....also some have milk flowing through their veins....

Also in my experience many NQTs not active in union or even joined, think its old fashioned, don't agree with the idea of unions and then surprised when it doesn't represent them....I **** you not....Also Many understandably afraid to or speak out as they feel their long term employment prospects could be damaged by standing up for what is right so have to sing dumb....many dont join for years after the damaging decisions are made....not willing to educate themselves on where their conditions came from, that they had to be fought for and they have to defended or else it will be an even harder task to get them back (if ever)

Management in some schools (who are supposed to be colleagues remember) pitted against their fellow staff members (more and more simply by the way the system is being organised imo) and only too happy to ride younger staff to get more than they should out of them....they too mostly don't want to rock the boat or do whats right as it will make their job harder...its easier to go along with it than say No

Theres a lot of stuff going on but its definitely not just older staff screwed younger teachers....that imo is mostly a myth which again serves the purpose of dividing and conquering........

shenanagans · 25-10-2018 9:46pm

amacca wrote: »

Thats mostly bull**** in my experience....the old teachers didn't screw the younger teachers per se.....I'm sure there will be others can put it more concisely/eloquently.....When CP was accepted unions/union members hands tied and Govt screwed younger teachers......

In my experience many NQTs not active in union or even joined, think its old fashioned, don't agree with the idea of unions and then surprised when it doesn't represent them....I **** you not....Also Many understandably afraid to or speak out as they feel their long term employment prospects could be damaged by standing up for what is right so have to sing dumb....many dont join for years after the damaging decisions are made....not willing to educate themselves on where their conditions came from, that they had to be fought for and they have to defended or else it will be an even harder task to get them back (if ever)

Management in some schools (who are supposed to be colleagues remember) pitted against their fellow staff members (more and more simply by the way the system is being organised imo) and only too happy to ride younger staff to get more than they should out of them....they too mostly don't want to rock the boat or do whats right as it will make their job harder...its easier to go along with it than say No

Theres a lot of stuff going on but its definitely not just older staff screwed younger teachers....that imo is mostly a myth which again serves the purpose of dividing and conquering........

Reading that comment makes me wonder why anyone would enter into teaching today.

I still wonder will these issues come back to bite the pre 2011 teachers in future. There must be enormous resentment out there amongst young teachers.

amacca · 25-10-2018 9:55pm

shenanagans wrote: »

Reading that comment makes me wonder why anyone would enter into teaching today.

I still wonder will these issues come back to bite the pre 2011 teachers in future. There must be enormous resentment out there amongst young teachers.

There probably is but its misplaced.....they are hating the player not the game..All teachers are being screwed, its not in any teacher's long term interests to have a two tier pay scale...its divide and conquer again and makes them weaker as a group and depressingly Govt side will probably get to do it and have another little lever to control them as a group....thats where all this is leading.

If it does come back to bite pre 2011s it will inevitably bite all.......

Also less people want to enter teaching and another knock on of this will be future entrants will probably be poorer quality and existing teachers that have options and are not near retirement will be leaving early.

shenanagans · 25-10-2018 10:00pm

amacca wrote: »

There probably is but its misplaced.....they are hating the player not the game..All teachers are being screwed, its not in any teacher's long term interests to have a two tier pay scale...its divide and conquer again and makes them weaker as a group and depressingly Govt side will probably get to do it and have another little lever to control them as a group....thats where all this is leading.

If it does come back to bite pre 2011s it will inevitably bite all.......

All the more reason to stick together. Teachers should have backed NQTs. Given two fingers to the Govt. as a whole. Today's vote surely illustrates a divide between teachers...... Teachers voted 53%, not the Govt.

acequion · 25-10-2018 10:01pm

shenanagans wrote: »

Reading that comment makes me wonder why anyone would enter into teaching today.

I still wonder will these issues come back to bite the pre 2011 teachers in future. There must be enormous resentment out there amongst young teachers.

"Resentment" What rubbish! You clearly don't even know what you're talking about and are just on here to stir things up! Have you nothing else to be doing?

But to burst your bubble, nobody resents the pre 2011 teachers because everybody within the profession knows that it was the Govt and not the teachers who screwed them. And now they're screwing themselves by accepting crumbs. This is definitely a big nail in the coffin of pay equality.

SligoBrewer · 25-10-2018 10:18pm

shenanagans wrote: »

All the more reason to stick together. Teachers should have backed NQTs. Given two fingers to the Govt. as a whole. Today's vote surely illustrates a divide between teachers...... Teachers voted 53%, not the Govt.

38% turnout.

20% of TUI accepted this deal.
62% stood idly by.

shenanagans · 25-10-2018 10:19pm

acequion wrote: »

"Resentment" What rubbish! You clearly don't even know what you're talking about and are just on here to stir things up! Have you nothing else to be doing?

But to burst your bubble, nobody resents the pre 2011 teachers because everybody within the profession knows that it was the Govt and not the teachers who screwed them. And now they're screwing themselves by accepting crumbs. This is definitely a big nail in the coffin of pay equality.

You're right. I'm not an expert on the subject. So it was an 53% of post 2011that voted yes?

You said 'they're screwing themselves by accepting crumbs'. So it was an NQT vote was it. Not all teachers that voted??

Because a pre 2011 teacher voting yes won't damage their pay. They won't be getting crumbs.

trebormurf · 25-10-2018 10:35pm

Didn’t most NQTs take the short term view to join the TUI in recent years to get quicker CIDs? Is it possible, that once again they’ve adopted the short term view - to be a couple of quid better off every week, we’ll agree to inequality in the profession forever? Unions are dead, Me Feinism is alive & well methinks.

ASTI ballot

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