Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Vegan Billboards from around the world.

13567…10

Comments

  • #62
    atticu
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭atticu


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    You'll have to ask the hatchery?

    If you are asking about the veracity of the billboard then do so, I won't be tolerating much more of this kind of post.

    Very good modding.
    If you don’t agree with me, I won’t be tolerating much more of this kind of post.


    Well done you.

    You are great at being impartial.

    Keep up the good work.


  • #63
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    klopparama wrote: »
    There is plenty of those type of threads on boards.

    You do realise you don’t have to read all the threads in the vegan forum if you do want to ?

    Who’s forcing you ?

    Even the thread thread that contains ‘from around the world’ has the anti vegans in ****ting themselves and spouting irrelevant nonsense about Ireland.

    Nobody forcing me but surely it's better to add something different into an echo chamber every now & again.
    You're the one who's telling yourself that, nobody here ****ting themselves, only adding a side of truth.


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    emaherx wrote: »
    Obsessed with what happens in Ireland?
    The point is vast majority of milk sold here is produced here. If people don't want to buy produce from from farms where calves are shot at birth it's easy.... Just buy Irish ;)

    How much of you vegetables based diet is imported and why? Was it all grown completely ethically? Do we export vegtables how and why?are our vegtables produced any more or less ethically than the other countries that we import from?

    Subsides? Removing subsides really did wonders for animal welfare in New Zealand, you should know about that as you post footage of it regularly!

    You also have very little faith in the average consumer? Packaging is clearly marked with country of origin.

    All my questions avoided.

    I must be on to something.

    So all the meat you eat in restaurants, deli’s and takeaways have labels on for the consumer to read ?


  • #65
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    There is plenty of those type of threads on boards.

    You do realise you don’t have to read all the threads in the vegan forum if you do want to ?

    Who’s forcing you ?

    Even the thread thread that contains ‘from around the world’ has the anti vegans in ****ting themselves and spouting irrelevant nonsense about Ireland.

    How is it irrelevant? Yes signs from around the world obviously posted for discussion purposes on a forum. Would you rather every response was oh good one?

    Also not a vegan forum, it's a vegan and vegetarian forum. You know vegetarians might like eggs and milk too! And to know it's possible to source such products locally without them coming from the horrendous factory farms depicted on your anti-everything-thats-not-vegan billboards


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    atticu wrote: »
    Very good modding.
    If you don’t agree with me, I won’t be tolerating much more of this kind of post.


    Well done you.

    You are great at being impartial.

    Keep up the good work.

    I think that’s very very unfair criticism.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    All my questions avoided.

    I must be on to something.

    So all the meat you eat in restaurants, deli’s and takeaways have labels on for the consumer to read ?

    Avoiding questions is your speciality!
    What question for you feel I have avoided?

    Ok, not all. Many do go out of their way to say Irish Meat. It's possible for a person to ask or go else where if not satisfied with information provided. Same applies to country of origin and how ethically produced their plant based menu is?


  • #68
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭emaherx


    klopparama wrote: »
    I think that’s very very unfair criticism.

    I will agree with you on that actually to be fair


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    emaherx wrote: »
    How is it irrelevant? Yes signs from around the world obviously posted for discussion purposes on a forum. Would you rather every response was oh good one?

    Also not a vegan forum, it's a vegan and vegetarian forum. You know vegetarians might like eggs and milk too! And to know it's possible to source such products locally without them coming from the horrendous factory farms depicted on your anti-everything-thats-not-vegan billboards

    You raise a very very good point here.

    I’m not sure why this is a vegetarian and vegan forum.

    I think vegetarians have more in common with carnists than vegans.

    I’m not sure how you go about making a request for a forum but I think there needs to be a vegan forum.


  • #70
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    klopparama wrote: »
    It’s hilarious.
    Ireland exports a lot of meat. Probably the ‘good stuff’ for top dollar.
    It also imports a lot of meat from places like Brazil, Thailand and East Europe. Yum.
    Doubt your average high street consumer is aware of this. A good idea for a thread would be to show how much meat is exported, to where and why. How much meat is imported, from where and why. The anti vegans on this forum are obsessed with what happens in Ireland for some reason. Maybe they’ve never been out of the country. So how much beef, pork and whatever else is exported ? To where ? And why ? How much is imported ? From where ? And why ? Is it right that people in Ireland are eating meat from abroad but don’t realise it ?
    What subsidies are received by farmers to allow them to export their meat ? Who pays those subsidies ? Why are they exporting meat while meat is being imported ? If anyone has the time and ability to start such a thread it might make for good reading    .

    ~ It's hillarious all right ...

    Ireland exports a lot of agricultural produce. Probably the ‘good stuff’ for top dollar.

    It also imports a lot of vegetable produce from places like Brazil, Thailand and East Europe. Yum.

    Doubt your average high street consumer is aware of this?

    A good idea for a thread would be to show how much is vegetable produce is imported, to where and why.

    How much vegetable produce is imported, from where and why?

    The vegans on this forum are obsessed with what happens with meat for some reason. Maybe they’ve never been out of the country.?

    So how much vegetables, fruit and whatever else is imported ? From where ? And why ?

    How much is exported ? From where ? And why?

    Is it right that people in Ireland are eating vegetable produce from abroad but don’t realise it?

    What subsidies are received by vegans and others to allow them to import their vegetable and foreign fruit? Who pays those subsidies ? Why are they importing vegetable produce and fruit while the same is being exported ?

    If anyone has the time and ability to start such a thread it might make for good reading.     ~

    The above has been transcribed to make you actually think about what you are saying

    So Why do you care what people chose to eat? You supposedly don't even eat meat....


  • #71
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    atticu wrote: »
    Very good modding.
    If you don’t agree with me, I won’t be tolerating much more of this kind of post.


    Well done you.

    You are great at being impartial.

    Keep up the good work.

    Do not discuss moderation on thread, PM for that. The moderation comment was not discussing agreement or disagreement of any opinion.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    klopparama wrote: »
    You raise a very very good point here.

    I’m not sure why this is a vegetarian and vegan forum.

    I think vegetarians have more in common with carnists than vegans.

    I’m not sure how you go about making a request for a forum but I think there needs to be a vegan forum.

    Read the charter, this has already been decided upon a decade ago:
    Be supportive

    This is a supportive community. Boards is a unique online resource in that it is one of the only places online where vegetarians and vegans are not segregated. This is a good thing. We share the same goals, so let's not alienate each other by shaming or assuming elitism. At the same time, please be accepting of our differences and don't be insulted by the truth.

    Most people are vegetarian before they go vegan and most eat meat before that, any move at reduction of harm is a good thing and we should not seek to alienate others no matter who they are. In fact most people I know on this forum from years ago were vegetarian, barely any vegans and most are vegan now, a supportive community is important for everybody and bandying about terms like carnist without explaining what you mean, which clearly aggravates others and ignores that it's main use is academic, or seeking to segregate others is not a way to go about things. This goes for everybody here, not being personal, it is just a good time to say it.

    The person who came up with this term carnism has a new book (Beyond Beliefs: A Guide to Improving Relationships and Communication for Vegans, Vegetarians, and Meat Eaters), that I believe would be useful for anybody posting here to read.


  • #73
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    I've used the term carnist before now, usually in irritated response the negativity that they like to generate.

    I'll be a good boy and try not to use it again. There are alternatives, though I'm not saying which I'd prefer. :rolleyes:


  • #74
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,664 ✭✭✭Worztron


    emaherx wrote: »
    That article while shocking cotains some inaccuracies and also has no relevance to the source of the eggs in my particular omelette.

    What are the 'inaccuracies'? Where do you get your eggs from?

    Also -- do you buy foods that contain eggs?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #75
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    I've used the term carnist before now, usually in irritated response the negativity that they like to generate.

    I'll be a good boy and try not to use it again. There are alternatives, though I'm not saying which I'd prefer. :rolleyes:

    Most people do not know what it means, even those that use it, it's got no negative connotations (and is just a description of the prevailing ideology in the world today) but is thrown around as such a lot, so can be taken poorly. Anyway lets try to talk about billboards.


  • #76
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    I've used the term carnist before now, usually in irritated response the negativity that they like to generate.

    I'll be a good boy and try not to use it again. There are alternatives, though I'm not saying which I'd prefer.

    Imo it is this type of comment that truely alienates others.


  • #77
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Worztron wrote: »
    What are the 'inaccuracies'? Where do you get your eggs from?

    Also -- do you buy foods that contain eggs?

    1. Just because the legal definition of free range only gives 1m2 dose no imply all free range birds are permenantly housed with this little floor space.

    2. Not all male chicks are useless for meat, this is only true of the type of bird used in factory egg production. Smaller scale producers using more traditional breeds the male chicks are more valuable for meat than the females as they gain more weight. (Still not a vegan friendly ideal admittedly)

    As for hens that may sometimes eat their eggs ,this is true, but a person feeding them will provide them with more protein than they will ever get from the eggs (they can't survive on their own eggs). They also won't survive if left unattended as foxes will get them. As for hens who morn the loss of their eggs a few golf balls in a nest sorts that issue. Many others simply lay their eggs as the go about their business not even looking back to notice it.

    As for them not having a say? Same is true of any vegan who keeps a pet and has control over it.


  • #78
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Most people do not know what it means, even those that use it, it's got no negative connotations (and is just a description of the prevailing ideology in the world today) but is thrown around as such a lot, so can be taken poorly. Anyway lets try to talk about billboards.

    I strongly disagree with that tbh. The word 'carnist'- is primarily found in vegan commentary directed at anyone who is not a 'vegan' in context such as:

    bloodmouth carnist scum
    bloodwhore carnist
    Carnist murderer 

    Ms Joy herself in a commercial publication a number of years back variously claims that:
    'carnism' (sic) is a violent ideology that enables humane people to participate in inhumane practices without realizing what they’re doing.

    How is that without 'negative connotations' to those whom it describes? The most noticeable thing here - is that this made up word is frequently used to slander anyone whose diet and lifestyle varies from strict veganism and is nearly always used in context with passive - aggresive type language as in the example above.

    Of note the word 'carnist' etc did not exist before c. 1991. Even today the word itself does not exist in any real dictionaries such as Collins - although you'll find any amount of online pushing of the phrase in vegan websites as if it is an actual recognised word - which it is not.

    This describitive term is also variously described as an "invisible belief system, or ideology" (sic). Did this 'invisible belief system or ideology suddenly wink into existence in a blink of an eye or was it coined to deliberatly to denigrate others?

    The most important aspect of this phrase imo - is that the word was coined by a member of a group defined by a specific belief system / lifestyle , who use the phrase to discribe and frequently disparge those who are different.

    Go back a millennia or two when the use of derogratory language was used to describe anyone of a different race or beliefs was a common occurrence. There is an evident parallel with the word 'carnist' where it is used as a means of disparagement and group directed hatred as frequently exhibited in online commentary.

    'Vegans' have defined themselves by the word 'vegan. Those described by the term 'carnist' do not. I can think of many such terms which are no longer permitted to be used by one group to denigrate or attack another...


  • #79
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    A word describing a word does not change the meaning of the described word. Apply the logic to a word you already knew:

    bloodmouth male scum
    bloodwhore male
    male murderer


    Does somebody saying that mean that male now has a different meaning?


    Also somebodies opinions of said ideology cast by a word (violent) does not change the meaning of it either, it is merely an opinion of somebody about something.

    Males are violent.


    One can even try and call somebody a male to disparage them, that does not mean the word male is at fault or the definition of male has changed or that they are using male correctly. Some people see a word like carnist and just think it's a nice sounding word to try and abuse somebody with, or to take offense from, wouldn't blame the word.

    Imagine a world where everybody believes in the same god, so much so that there does not even need to be a name for the religion, after all there is only one and everybody agrees. Now somebody is born that does not believe in any God, at first they do not even know how to even discuss this with other people effectively because there is no word to describe the group of people collectively that believe in this god. How can they challenge the belief system effectively or even talk about it if it is widespread that it doesn't even have a name?

    So this person coins the word Christian to describe them and their beliefs. That's all it is, a word to describe what the people believe in, and to discuss the ideology. If this person then takes offense at something the Christians do or believe in and starts calling them bloodmouth Christian scum that doesn't mean that the world Christian is different, in fact the Christians are most likely proud that they are Christian and disagree with the persons thoughts about their beliefs.
    Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat.[n 1] Carnism is presented as a dominant belief system supported by a variety of defense mechanisms and mostly unchallenged assumptions.[1][2][3][4] The term carnism was coined by social psychologist and vegan activist Melanie Joy in 2001 and popularized by her book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows (2009).[5][6][7]

    Central to the ideology, according to the theory, is the acceptance of meat-eating as "natural", "normal", "necessary", and (sometimes) "nice".[n 2] An important feature of carnism is the classification of only particular species of animal as food, and the acceptance of practices toward those animals that would be rejected as unacceptable cruelty if applied to other species. This classification is culturally relative, so that, for example, dogs are eaten by some people in Korea but may be pets in the West, while cows are eaten in the West but protected in much of India.[1]


  • #80
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,950 ✭✭✭emaherx


    "Central to the ideology, according to the theory, is the acceptance of meat-eating as "natural", "normal", "necessary", and (sometimes) "nice".[n 2] An important feature of carnism is the classification of only particular species of animal as food, and the acceptance of practices toward those animals that would be rejected as unacceptable cruelty if applied to other species. This classification is culturally relative, so that, for example, dogs are eaten by some people in Korea but may be pets in the West, while cows are eaten in the West but protected in much of India.[1]"

    But none of us actually believe in the above and have stated that many times.

    The word Christian is used and excepted by Christians. Go and create a new word for a religion and give it a definition based on how you believe they are and see how excepting they are of it.


  • #81
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Cow's in India are considered sacred to Hindus due to the fact they believe cow's provide life sustaining milk. Other religions in india do eat beef. India is actually the largest producer of milk in the world only its own population is so vast they consume the majority of it. Hindu is religion based on do no harm yet they have no issue milking cows


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    A word describing a word does not change the meaning of the described word. Apply the logic to a word you already knew:....

    The word 'Christian' and the word 'male' are real words used and accepted by those who belong to those groups. 'Carnist' is not. Ms 'Joy' deliberatly conflates 'carnist' and 'violence' in her own writings and therefore it is not just "an opinion of somebody about something'

    It remains The word 'carnist' is not a word found in any of the official dictionaries - it is an insult used only by one group and was made up by an individual in order to disparage those with different beliefs and / or lifestyles.

    Try doing that elsewhere and see where it gets you. ...


  • #83
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Melbourne


  • #84
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tilikum17 wrote: »
    Another few...
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=462696&d=1538333049

    Ironic that groups like Peta put up billboards like that tbh

    http://message.snopes.com/critters/graphics/petaex.jpg https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_us_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711


  • #85
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    Waiting for the Dublin bus in Ennis last December.


  • #86
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    gozunda wrote: »
    Ironic that groups like Peta put up billboards like that tbh

    http://message.snopes.com/critters/graphics/petaex.jpg https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_us_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711
    Groups like peta only do damage to how people view vegans, i had a meeting the other day with a vegan guy from the uk who despises them. He is vegan for his own reasons and is not judgmental or pushy with his beliefs. He is the exception to the rule as far as my experience with vegans goes


  • #87
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,664 ✭✭✭Worztron


    emaherx wrote: »
    1. Just because the legal definition of free range only gives 1m2 dose no imply all free range birds are permenantly housed with this little floor space.

    2. Not all male chicks are useless for meat, this is only true of the type of bird used in factory egg production. Smaller scale producers using more traditional breeds the male chicks are more valuable for meat than the females as they gain more weight. (Still not a vegan friendly ideal admittedly)

    As for hens that may sometimes eat their eggs ,this is true, but a person feeding them will provide them with more protein than they will ever get from the eggs (they can't survive on their own eggs). They also won't survive if left unattended as foxes will get them. As for hens who morn the loss of their eggs a few golf balls in a nest sorts that issue. Many others simply lay their eggs as the go about their business not even looking back to notice it.

    As for them not having a say? Same is true of any vegan who keeps a pet and has control over it.

    No doubt, the vast majority of "free range" birds are housed in tiny quarters. Why is this ok with you? It's clearly animal abuse.

    The vast majority of male chicks in the egg industry are ground up alive/gassed. Why even try to defend this horrific activity?

    You never answered my questions:
    • Where do you get your eggs from?
    • Do you buy foods that contain eggs?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • #88
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    Waiting for the Dublin bus in Ennis last December.


    Looks like that whole Goveganworld billboard campaign and website vanished. That billboard campaign backfired on its organisers afaics. No loss imo.


  • #89
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    gozunda wrote: »
    Looks like that whole Goveganworld billboard campaign and website vanished. That billboard campaign backfired on its organisers afaics. No loss imo.

    That may be overblowing it a bit, It was simply redesigned and put back up https://goveganworld.com/


  • #90
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    That may be overblowing it a bit, It was simply redesigned and put back up https://goveganworld.com/

    It was down for a fairly long time tbh. I note the owner details some of the mistakes / issues of that campaign in the blog. At first glance parts of the 'new' website would also appear at best to being somewhat economical with the truth ...


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Copenhagen


Advertisement