IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

Grueller · 13-09-2018 9:08pm

White Clover wrote: »

Was it Charlie or Albert that put him going again?

Did you even have to ask. Charlie of course.

Who2 · 13-09-2018 9:12pm

I’m I the only one here thinking this is more political and we’re giving Larry too much flak on this one. He’s in the business of buying and processing meat, he would be an absolute clown to pay more than he has to. The price across the world for beef and nearly any farm produce is being kept low. We can say it’s being made up with subs but the truth is that it isn’t. The retailers have the arse pulled out of it in regards to profit, they are going to have a fair share of waste as farm produce is mainly perishable, but they seem to have the main chunk. But is it any more of a profit margin than other industries such as a clothes shop or hardware store that needs to keep operating profitably. We are so far down the ladder that nobody gives a monkeys, we have no real voice and realistically there is going to be nothing done until we all stop producing and at that stage there is going to be a lack of will amongst the many but there will be a few who will push on. At that stage Larry will probably have bought up most of the ground more of a necessity to secure supply than just greed.

wrangler · 13-09-2018 9:22pm

Who2 wrote: »

I’m I the only one here thinking this is more political and we’re giving Larry too much flak on this one. He’s in the business of buying and processing meat, he would be an absolute clown to pay more than he has to. The price across the world for beef and nearly any farm produce is being kept low. We can say it’s being made up with subs but the truth is that it isn’t. The retailers have the arse pulled out of it in regards to profit, they are going to have a fair share of waste as farm produce is mainly perishable, but they seem to have the main chunk. But is it any more of a profit margin than other industries such as a clothes shop or hardware store that needs to keep operating profitably. We are so far down the ladder that nobody gives a monkeys, we have no real voice and realistically there is going to be nothing done until we all stop producing and at that stage there is going to be a lack of will amongst the many but there will be a few who will push on. At that stage Larry will probably have bought up most of the ground more of a necessity to secure supply than just greed.

Young people were never in as good a position to get away from farming, even the ones farming have third level education, I referred earlier to a wedding I was at last weekend, all professionals and if you saw and heard the lifestyle of the young people there you'd see the gap between farming and reality.
Thankfully the lack of young farmers available is reflecting the move away from farming

_Brian · 13-09-2018 9:26pm

Cattle are cheap because lads are way over producing.
Cut each farm production by 20-30%, prices would lift and lads would have profits from stock.

Continuing to oversupply makes beef cheap.

Beef needs a rethink, real markets are dwindling and so we need to produce less stock or it will just get cheaper and cheaper.

Who2 · 13-09-2018 9:31pm

_Brian wrote: »

Cattle are cheap because lads are way over producing.
Cut each farm production by 20-30%, prices would lift and lads would have profits from stock.

Continuing to oversupply makes beef cheap.

Beef needs a rethink, real markets are dwindling and so we need to produce less stock or it will just get cheaper and cheaper.

It’s not that simple. 20% cut here can easily be filled from some other country. A week with no food and all the revs and restrictions would soon disappear. If we got a 5% increase in a 20% cut in numbers we’d be doing well, and even at that beef production isn’t going to provide a decent return.

mahoney_j · 13-09-2018 9:32pm

_Brian wrote: »

Cattle are cheap because lads are way over producing.
Cut each farm production by 20-30%, prices would lift and lads would have profits from stock.

Continuing to oversupply makes beef cheap.

Beef needs a rethink, real markets are dwindling and so we need to produce less stock or it will just get cheaper and cheaper.

I only see the beef industry going one way ,one giant big cartel controlled by one man .its starting already ,factory feedlots ,these are getting more common with farmers been offered set figure for sheds ,extra if silage if included .farmer feeds ainmals etc I don’t like the idea but it’s about the only way I see beef men been able to secure a set margin or income from beef

wrangler · 13-09-2018 9:39pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

I only see the beef industry going one way ,one giant big cartel controlled by one man .its starting already ,factory feedlots ,these are getting more common with farmers been offered set figure for sheds ,extra if silage if included .farmer feeds ainmals etc I don’t like the idea but it’s about the only way I see beef men been able to secure a set margin or income from beef

Same as any industry, it has to move with the times, survival of the fittest.
Next CAP reform will be interesting

Say my name · 13-09-2018 9:54pm

Or go the Welsh route and fight to hold every independent abattoir and butchers shop and get government support for same.
https://www.globalmeatnews.com/Article/2018/05/16/UK-abattoirs-at-risk

It's too late for that here since "we've moved with the times" but that's what's currently happening over there now especially since Larry is pushing in there now too.
The Irish have this mentality that bigger is better. Probably comes from the dept only wanting a few factories to inspect and not multiple small ones.
Or maybe we've an inferiority complex to prove to the world, anyway it's a shortcoming.

Sheep breeder · 13-09-2018 11:28pm

Say my name wrote: »

Or go the Welsh route and fight to hold every independent abattoir and butchers shop and get government support for same.
https://www.globalmeatnews.com/Article/2018/05/16/UK-abattoirs-at-risk

It's too late for that here since "we've moved with the times" but that's what's currently happening over there now especially since Larry is pushing in there now too.
The Irish have this mentality that bigger is better. Probably comes from the dept only wanting a few factories to inspect and not multiple small ones.
Or maybe we've an inferiority complex to prove to the world, anyway it's a shortcoming.

A lot of the local small abattoirs were closed by the local authorities vets who made it so hard to comply, in our locality 5 were closed by the council vet and stopped a little industry for local farmers who supplied them with stock, now the stock goes to the next county to be slaughtered and lorry back to the local butcher.

54and56 · 13-09-2018 11:53pm

Say my name wrote: »

The Irish have this mentality that bigger is better.

If your strategy is to export then being "competitive" is key and that means being cost competitive which in turn means economies of scale and big factories etc.

IIRC we produce way more than we could ever consume domestically so we have to export which means we have to be competitive. That doesn't mean there isn't room for some farmers to club together to produce a higher cost but higher quality product, locally butchered etc for local consumption.

greysides · 13-09-2018 11:55pm

Part of the problem with the local abattoirs was the disposal of SRM (waste material) which was expensive, that and complying with other new hygiene regulations. All these regs were brought in with the intention of having food safer to eat.

54and56 · 13-09-2018 11:55pm

Sheep breeder wrote: »

A lot of the local small abattoirs were closed by the local authorities vets who made it so hard to comply

Why couldn't they comply with the standards? Was it too expensive or didn't they have the ability to comply?

Is it possible they used the inspections as an excuse to close what were inefficient operations anyway?

freedominacup · 14-09-2018 6:26am

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why couldn't they comply with the standards? Was it too expensive or didn't they have the ability to comply?

Is it possible they used the inspections as an excuse to close what were inefficient operations anyway?

If by "they" you mean the dept and by "inefficient operations " you mean not controlled by the right people then yes.

Sheep breeder · 14-09-2018 7:39am

greysides wrote: »

Part of the problem with the local abattoirs was the disposal of SRM (waste material) which was expensive, that and complying with other new hygiene regulations. All these regs were brought in with the intention of having food safer to eat.

They were all dealing with SRM the same as the big Factory, the regs were the problem and how they were being inforced by the local authority vet, one example was the shooting box for sheep and cattle and line need to be 3 foot more apart and would result in the building needing to have one side knocked out and rebuilt. The cattle were killed one day and the next day the sheep were done and never on the same day. The small local man was killing top quality and the hygiene was second to none as he was selling local and that was in his interest to do it right or go out of business.

Sheep breeder · 14-09-2018 7:45am

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why couldn't they comply with the standards? Was it too expensive or didn't they have the ability to comply?

Is it possible they used the inspections as an excuse to close what were inefficient operations anyway?

Inefficient no, it was making the over heads to high and cheaper to buy from the likes of uncle Larry and the big factory, the amount of work that was created in the local community for part time farmers who worked as butchers and the suppliers who were local. We used to only travel 6miles with lambs and no travel 40 miles, another big loss was getting your own animal slaughtered for the freezer has died and was a big tradition.

Upstream · 14-09-2018 12:07pm

greysides wrote: »

Part of the problem with the local abattoirs was the disposal of SRM (waste material) which was expensive, that and complying with other new hygiene regulations. All these regs were brought in with the intention of having food safer to eat.

Just wondering, what happened to the SRM in the days before it was ground up and fed to animals as meat and bone meal?

kk.man · 14-09-2018 12:18pm

I see supervalue offers for this week..Hereford steak @ 15e per kg and mince @ 10 per kg. These are 'offers'.
We selling beef at sub 3.80 next week. Something seriously broken and no IFA action.

alps · 14-09-2018 1:08pm

kk.man wrote: »

I see supervalue offers for this week..Hereford steak @ 15e per kg and mince @ 10 per kg. These are 'offers'.
We selling beef at sub 3.80 next week. Something seriously broken and no IFA action.

https://shop.supervalu.ie/shopping/meat-poultry/c-150100015

Mince is at €5/kg.....not much in the value chain there..

Your competitor just may be other meats...pork, chicken etc...While they consistently sell for €5 per kg, are you confident that the consumers has the willingness or the pocket to give you what you require?

Can I ask, how much do you require to make a satisfactory margin, and do you think there exists a route to market that could capture that margin for all of the meat from all of our animals?

kk.man · 14-09-2018 1:40pm

alps wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

I see supervalue offers for this week..Hereford steak @ 15e per kg and mince @ 10 per kg. These are 'offers'.
We selling beef at sub 3.80 next week. Something seriously broken and no IFA action.

https://shop.supervalu.ie/shopping/meat-poultry/c-150100015

Mince is at €5/kg.....not much in the value chain there..

Your competitor just may be other meats...pork, chicken etc...While they consistently sell for €5 per kg, are you confident that the consumers has the willingness or the pocket to give you what you require?

Can I ask, how much do you require to make a satisfactory margin, and do you think there exists a route to market that could capture that margin for all of the meat from all of our animals?

I think it reads 5euro for 500gms..thus 10euro. They have stopped the price per kg on the adds.

When it comes to fresh meat supermarkets do not do a lost leader!

Never wrestle with pigs · 14-09-2018 2:54pm

In oz it's law that everything is labelled with a price per kg. All ways thought that was good and very clear.

Panch18 · 14-09-2018 3:36pm

alps wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

I see supervalue offers for this week..Hereford steak @ 15e per kg and mince @ 10 per kg. These are 'offers'.
We selling beef at sub 3.80 next week. Something seriously broken and no IFA action.

https://shop.supervalu.ie/shopping/meat-poultry/c-150100015

Mince is at €5/kg.....not much in the value chain there..

Your competitor just may be other meats...pork, chicken etc...While they consistently sell for €5 per kg, are you confident that the consumers has the willingness or the pocket to give you what you require?

Can I ask, how much do you require to make a satisfactory margin, and do you think there exists a route to market that could capture that margin for all of the meat from all of our animals?

Beef would want to be staying above 4.00 to keep any kind of margin
You could equate 4.00 to 30 cent for milk
Beef should really be making in the 4.2 to 4.50 bracket year round to have any chance of everybody making a few quid along the way

wrangler · 15-09-2018 7:04pm

Panch18 wrote: »

Beef would want to be staying above 4.00 to keep any kind of margin
You could equate 4.00 to 30 cent for milk
Beef should really be making in the 4.2 to 4.50 bracket year round to have any chance of everybody making a few quid along the way

I'd imagine if beef cattle increased in price by €100, calves and stores would increase by €150

Base price · 29-11-2018 3:42pm

I wonder has the new beef plan movement lite a fire up the arse of the IFA :rolleyes:.

We (most of us) have know/shouted for years that there has been excessive carcass trimming going on, yet this is the first time that I'm aware that it has been mentioned in the IFJ.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/healy-jail-factories-who-rob-farmers-422995

Willfarman · 29-11-2018 3:46pm

Base price wrote: »

I wonder has the new beef plan movement lite a fire up the arse of the IFA :rolleyes:.

We (most of us) have know/shouted for years that there has been excessive carcass trimming going on, yet this is the first time that I'm aware that it has been mentioned in the IFJ.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/healy-jail-factories-who-rob-farmers-422995

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/department-of-agriculture-inspectors-to-monitor-carcase-trim-in-meat-factories-ifa-37034399.html

Base price · 29-11-2018 4:52pm

Willfarman wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/department-of-agriculture-inspectors-to-monitor-carcase-trim-in-meat-factories-ifa-37034399.html

I read that at the time, no mention of DAFM catching factories excessively trimming.

"IFA National Livestock Chairman Angus Woods said this is a positive move, which IFA welcomes, but it must also extend to cover monitoring and closer controls on carcase classification, weights and the provision of an independent appeals system" - ironic considering IFA initially agreed to all.

Willfarman · 29-11-2018 6:48pm

To claim this a victory for ifa lobbying is indeed amusing. The knights watch will be galloping on horseback to this thread to defend them I’m sure but what this agreement has cost farmers since 2009 should be assessed and we should put it on a badge and pin it on Justin McCarthy and Michael Doran as it isn’t acceptable that they should walk from such a blunder without a mark on their character.

wrangler · 29-11-2018 9:16pm

Willfarman wrote: »

To claim this a victory for ifa lobbying is indeed amusing. The knights watch will be galloping on horseback to this thread to defend them I’m sure but what this agreement has cost farmers since 2009 should be assessed and we should put it on a badge and pin it on Justin McCarthy and Michael Doran as it isn’t acceptable that they should walk from such a blunder without a mark on their character.

What agreement are you referring to, I can't
find any evidence,
put it up and we'll discuss it

Willfarman · 29-11-2018 9:43pm

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef-grading-grid-in-place-by-january-26576796.html

Wasn’t hard to find.

Base price · 29-11-2018 9:56pm

wrangler wrote: »

What agreement are you referring to, I can't
find any evidence,
put it up and we'll discuss it

This one https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef-grading-grid-in-place-by-january-26576796.html

* Will beat me too it.

Willfarman · 29-11-2018 10:02pm

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-03-11.856.0

IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

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