Educate Together schools

WannabeBuyer · 14-02-2019 8:19pm #1

My child has been accepted to the local ET school. Not our first choice as we aren’t familiar with the ET ethos. Any advice or concerns?

eviltwin · 14-02-2019 8:24pm

WannabeBuyer wrote: »

My child has been accepted to the local ET school. Not our first choice as we aren’t familiar with the ET ethos. Any advice or concerns?

My child is in 3rd class in an ET. What are you concerned about specifically? Might be able to address your worries

The ET ethos is everyone is equal. The main difference is there are no uniforms, teachers are called by their first name, no religious ethos.

WannabeBuyer · 14-02-2019 8:31pm

eviltwin wrote: »

My child is in 3rd class in an ET. What are you concerned about specifically? Might be able to address your worries

The ET ethos is everyone is equal. The main difference is there are no uniforms, teachers are called by their first name, no religious ethos.

Thanks for the feedback. No concerns as such, we are just clueless as to how it differs from Catholic schools, which we would have attended as kids. This is our first child to go to school so we have no experience!
I presume they don’t make their First Communication and we would need to arrange that if that’s what we wanted?

eviltwin · 15-02-2019 5:10pm

WannabeBuyer wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. No concerns as such, we are just clueless as to how it differs from Catholic schools, which we would have attended as kids. This is our first child to go to school so we have no experience!
I presume they don’t make their First Communication and we would need to arrange that if that’s what we wanted?

It will depend on the school. In our case the communion children do preparation after school. Someone from the parish runs it. Check with the school, if they don't run anything themselves they should be able to direct you.

Pissartist · 15-02-2019 5:12pm

are these schools full of foreign children with poor english ?
They call teachers by their first name ? that's weird

Mod Note
Not helpful.

jopax · 15-02-2019 5:17pm

From my experience the school do not facilitate any details of religion. In our et is usually one of the parents that volunteers to take over the organisation of it, like the previous post said they contact the parish & organise out of school.
If the parents have a Facebook group it's very good also for finding out that kind of information.

Boom_Bap · 15-02-2019 5:20pm

I've my 2 in an Educate Together and I couldn't be happier. I think that they are coming out with a broader outlook on life.
There is no religious ethos, but they learn about all religions and what they celebrate.

In relation to communion, it's optional, there is a class that is done out of school hours generally that the kids attend.

byhookorbycrook · 15-02-2019 10:13pm

There is no typical ET school, in the same way that there is no typical Catholic or COI school. Yes, there will be similarities between school, but the best way to get an idea of a school is to visit it and meet with the principal. They will be trying to "sell" the school,of course, but you will get a proper feel for the school all the same.
If you google the school name and "WSE" it will bring you to any inspection reports that exist on the school.

judeboy101 · 15-02-2019 10:21pm

Statistically ET are less socially diverse and have less kids with special needs than catholic schools. The % of migrant children is virtually the same in ET and catholic.

https://www.thejournal.ie/catholic-primary-schools-diversity-divestment-facts-ireland-3252590-Mar2017/

[Deleted User] · 20-05-2021 11:06am

I would like to bump this thread if I may.

I am considering sending my children to an ET school when we move back to Ireland (we are currently abroad in the middle east and frankly, an ET school might be more similar than dissimilar to the current school than a rural national school).

I've studied the ET ethos on their website and I can't help but detect an element of identity-politics-driven political activism in the literature, e.g. asking young children to actively notice skin color, a romanticization / celebration of "nomadic lifestyles", respect for different religions (but not much mention of the validity of non-belief and robust critiquing of religious beliefs, as that would presumably be disrespectful), and other tell-tale signs that these are schools for the children of, for want of a better word, politically correct liberals, geared towards instilling the seeds of a certain type of activism in their students.

I would like to ask parents who have kids in these schools if I'm reading too much into what's written in their ethos; if the school instils respect for genuine authority figures; how they approach discipline; and whether they equip people to deal with defeat and set-back?
Do they encourage students to treat each other as individuals first and foremost, or do they elevate characteristics such as skin color and religion such that they come to define people?

Moonbeam · 21-05-2021 7:32am

Pissartist wrote: »

are these schools full of foreign children with poor english ?
They call teachers by their first name ? that's weird

Mod Note
Not helpful.

in a lot of cases less so than the local national school .
Even if they are , i do not see the issue with it? except maybe the education does not properly facilitate these kids with appropriate language education but that would not be limited to ET or national schools.

tHE vAGGABOND · 21-05-2021 12:34pm

I know of folks with kids going to two ET schools [one in Dublin South, one Dublin North] and in both cases, virtually every single kid is the child of middle-class white folks - as the name had to be down the *second* it was born to get high enough on the waiting list - and only middle-class folks thinking about school before the kid was born had the act together to do that.

In the one local to me; one of our mates is from India - and their kid is the only non-Irish person in the class.

Worth noting, in both schools, virtually everyone does their communion and confirmation; as its a party/right of passage type thing - where our little fella goes to the local school which ones upon a time was very catholic, and less than half of kids do the communion - as it has that diversity that ET had once upon a time [and I'm sure some of them do]

spurious · 21-05-2021 12:37pm

When I was teaching (inner city VEC/ETB school), the children from the ET schools were the ones we never had any issues with - discipline, attendance, participation wise. Their parents tended to be very engaged too. If I had children, that's where mine would be going.

**Yikes, just realised this is an old thread. Apologies.

eviltwin · 21-05-2021 12:46pm

Tomalak wrote: »

I would like to bump this thread if I may.

I am considering sending my children to an ET school when we move back to Ireland (we are currently abroad in the middle east and frankly, an ET school might be more similar than dissimilar to the current school than a rural national school).

I've studied the ET ethos on their website and I can't help but detect an element of identity-politics-driven political activism in the literature, e.g. asking young children to actively notice skin color, a romanticization / celebration of "nomadic lifestyles", respect for different religions (but not much mention of the validity of non-belief and robust critiquing of religious beliefs, as that would presumably be disrespectful), and other tell-tale signs that these are schools for the children of, for want of a better word, politically correct liberals, geared towards instilling the seeds of a certain type of activism in their students.

I would like to ask parents who have kids in these schools if I'm reading too much into what's written in their ethos; if the school instils respect for genuine authority figures; how they approach discipline; and whether they equip people to deal with defeat and set-back?
Do they encourage students to treat each other as individuals first and foremost, or do they elevate characteristics such as skin color and religion such that they come to define people?

Our ET is in a part of Dublin that would be very ethnically diverse, I think the school is actually the most diverse primary school in the country with over 100 countries represented in the student body. That wouldn't be typical for all of course but how the above manifests itself in our school is simply about respect: respect for other cultures, creeds etc. I suppose that's partly because with a no uniform policy it tends to be more obvious who is not typically Irish. A lot of the kids in our school would wear traditional clothing and hairstyles etc but first and foremost they are themselves and not their background.

Respect for everyone is encouraged, I don't see the lack of uniform or first names thing as a sign of lack of respect although it seems to ruffle some feathers. Teachers are in charge but rather than a blanket "do this or else" any objections by students are explored and discussed so the child knows why they are being asked to do something. Children are encouraged to use their voice but I see that as a good thing.

Look, it all depends on how you think a school should be. The ethos suits me because its mirrors how we are with our kids at home, we are not authoritarian parents so we didn't want an authoritarian school. My son is in 5th class now and in my experience the children are just as polite and well rounded as those in the local Catholic school.

JPup · 21-05-2021 12:48pm

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I know of folks with kids going to two ET schools [one in Dublin South, one Dublin North] and in both cases, virtually every single kid is the child of middle-class white folks - as the name had to be down the *second* it was born to get high enough on the waiting list - and only middle-class folks thinking about school before the kid was born had the act together to do that.

In the one local to me; one of our mates is from India - and their kid is the only non-Irish person in the class.

Worth noting, in both schools, virtually everyone does their communion and confirmation; as its a party/right of passage type thing - where our little fella goes to the local school which ones upon a time was very catholic, and less than half of kids do the communion - as it has that diversity that ET had once upon a time [and I'm sure some of them do]

I've my child in a south Dublin ET and have a very different experience to that. Good mix of kids from different backgrounds. One with Indian parents, a few from muslim families, eastern europe etc. It's not first come first served allocation of places either - they run a lottery system which is fairer in my opinion.

They learn about all major religions in a respectful manner. A few will make their communions, but by no means the large majority - maybe less than half some years.

As for Tomolak's query, I think you are reading way too much into that. The general ET ethos you would read online is very high level and will have a relatively small influence on the ground in the schools themselves which vary considerably as you can see. The notion that they romanticise nomadic lifestyles for example is bizarre! In 8 years at an ET, I'd be surprised if discussion of nomads comes up more than once, if ever.

[Deleted User] · 24-05-2021 6:23am

JPup wrote: »

As for Tomolak's query, I think you are reading way too much into that. The general ET ethos you would read online is very high level and will have a relatively small influence on the ground in the schools themselves which vary considerably as you can see. The notion that they romanticise nomadic lifestyles for example is bizarre! In 8 years at an ET, I'd be surprised if discussion of nomads comes up more than once, if ever.

From their "Learn Together" booklet:

Based on the above, does this sound like it would, in the interests of balance, also discuss the more negative elements of Traveler culture? When (if?) the curriculum points out the negative statistics around alcoholism, domestic abuse, criminality, do you think it would solely paint Travelers as victims of discrimination or would it also require students to consider whether the Traveler lifestyle is compatible with high levels of human development?

Then there is this:

Focusing on equality to some extent is fine -- but there is a subtext of identitarian, social justice activism, which is all but confirmed here:

I'm an atheist. I'm married to a woman from SE Asia. Our children are obviously bi-racial. My eldest attends school in the UAE with a very eclectic group of students -- Indians, Emiratis, Chinese, Nigerians, Mauritanians, Filipinos. The teaching staff for his class alone are from England, Korea and Algeria.

Not once has race ever been mentioned and I've never seen a child even notice it here. They just play together and it's wonderful to see.

But I've attended enough Humanities courses taught by activist academics in my day to know a social justice activist / victimology / oppression narrative when I see one. And by golly I see one in ET.

Now, if you're going to tell me that it's not actually like that on the ground, then I'd be delighted as in theory I'd much prefer a secular, humanist milieu for my kids' education than a Catholic one. But not if the ET agenda is to indoctrinate my children into becoming identity-politics-obsessed activists who see racism everywhere; into seeing themselves as downtrodden "people of color" and me, their Dad, as a dreaded White Male.
So if I send them to Catholic national school, I'll need to shore up their critical thinking skills against mythology posing as fact; if they go to ET, I may well have to defend my family's cohesion against the divisive forces of identity politics, which is buttressed by the poison of critical race theory.

fits · 24-05-2021 6:39am

I think you are reading far too much into things tbh.

[Deleted User] · 24-05-2021 6:46am

fits wrote: »

I think you are reading far too much into things tbh.

OK, great, why do you think that? Please elaborate.
I'm not out to hate on ET -- I am just disturbed by the subtext I detect in their literature and want to know more about what it's like on the ground.

Blush_01 · 24-05-2021 5:40pm

Tomalak wrote: »

OK, great, why do you think that? Please elaborate.
I'm not out to hate on ET -- I am just disturbed by the subtext I detect in their literature and want to know more about what it's like on the ground.

I think your pointed reference to nomadic and Traveller identities, and what you perceive to be their negative traits, demonstrates a disturbing lean towards discrimination. Why not homeschool if you're afraid your kids will meet people from other socio-economic demographics? They're going to meet a wide range of people throughout their lives, why would spending time with people from a variety of backgrounds in school disadvantage them?

You seem hell-bent on finding fault with ET. You're not mandated to send your kids there. Have you read the DES SPHE curriculum? You'll find a lot of the same content.

[Deleted User] · 24-05-2021 6:25pm

Blush_01 wrote: »

I think your pointed reference to nomadic and Traveller identities, and what you perceive to be their negative traits, demonstrates a disturbing lean towards discrimination. Why not homeschool if you're afraid your kids will meet people from other socio-economic demographics? They're going to meet a wide range of people throughout their lives, why would spending time with people from a variety of backgrounds in school disadvantage them?

You have misunderstood my concerns. I have no concerns about them meeting and engaging with anyone from any background whatsoever. They are living a far more diverse life than anyone you know. I’d bet money all day on that. In our apartment, we have five people (including me) — one atheist from Ireland, one Catholic from the Philippines and one Muslim from Eritrea, plus the kids themselves. They meet people from all walks each and every day and it’s great. One of the things that makes it great is that we and they don’t focus on difference — we don’t focus on race for example. We focus on people’s individual personalities. During Ramadan their current school explains what Ramadan is. Ditto for Diwali and Christmas. Tomorrow they will wear white for Africa day. But they are not taught any oppression narrative and certainly not asked to describe their friends by skin color.

My concern is for the identitarian ideology they would potentially be exposed to based on the text I’ve highlighted. It’s the political narrative subtext I’m concerned about.

You seem hell-bent on finding fault with ET. You're not mandated to send your kids there. Have you read the DES SPHE curriculum? You'll find a lot of the same content.

I am not hell bent on finding fault. I am however evaluating different options and critically querying whatever I find concerning or unclear. I have not read the DES SPHE curriculum. I’ve been outside of Ireland for 11 years and am only now starting to look at the contemporary state of primary schooling in Ireland. I will look at DES SPHE.

eviltwin · 24-05-2021 6:32pm

Your focusing on a few pages that don't really represent the lived experience in the schools. I've had a child in ET since JI, he's now nearly 12 and I can't say I have seen or heard anything from him that would make me think he's being indoctrinated into any kind of ideology. I'm sure if you took a look at the kind of things being taught in religious schools it could look quite narrow minded and discriminatory but again, that's not how it plays out in the day to day learning.

ballynag · 21-08-2021 1:17am

Thanks to all a very interesting thread as thinking of sending our first to the secondary school in Limerick

ballynag · 21-08-2021 1:21am

My wondering is would those with experience consider it less “driven” than more mainstream secondary schools?

I really think a school that didn’t focus so much on “points points points” in Leaving Cert but more on the real potential of my anxious- prone perfectionist intelligent child would suit him so much more.

but I was a little underwhelmed by the blurb in the website, yes social inclusivity but is that the main message?

tscul32 · 25-09-2021 9:29am

Hi ballynag. I have a 2nd year and a 4th year in our local ET secondary school and I think it's great for my kids. My two have been assessed as exceptionally able so the local community school which has a strong academic ethos may have been a more likely choice, but mine also have their own extra challenges so we chose the ET. So far they are not overly academics driven. In fact my eldest is vastly underachieving. But he hated primary school (had a bad start in one school, moved for 2nd class and while it was a great move he still saw school as the enemy) and didn't really have any friends. Now I see a happy 15yr old coming home with friends to dump his bag and head to the cinema, or to someone else's house. He has friends and is happy and is developing nicely as a young adult. He's quite quirky but they all seem to accept each other. There is a very holistic approach to their education, it's not just about points and league tables, but about producing well rounded members of society being the best that they can be. I figure he's bright enough to up his game when he reaches the point where he knows he needs to do it, and if that's not until he's 20 then so be it. I have a smiling child for now. My second fella is doing great academically, but he has DCD which can cause him some stress and frustration. But he loves the restorative practice for dispute resolution (caught him trying it with the dog😂) as he feels he is listened to which greatly reduced the frustration. In the other school it would be much more authoritarian which would frustrate him no end.

Obviously not all ET schools will be like this, it depends on the principal and staff but just wanted to share our experience as there aren't too many secondaries out there to get reviews on.

As a quick note on diversity, there are around 200 students and they have representation from 35 countries.

[Deleted User] · 25-09-2021 9:46am

@Tomalak have you looked at the alternative?

It's hard to judge something on its own.

Consider what a typical religion class in a traditional Catholic national school would be:

https://www.growinlove.ie/en/

byhookorbycrook · 28-09-2021 5:58pm

To be fair, restorative justice isn't exclusive to ET schools. We have been using it for almost 16 years! I'm delighted for your EA pair, though, I've worked with lots of children with EA and school can definitely be a challenge.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2021 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117225378#Comment_117225378

I know of folks with kids going to two ET schools [one in Dublin South, one Dublin North] and in both cases, virtually every single kid is the child of middle-class white folks - as the name had to be down the *second* it was born to get high enough on the waiting list - and only middle-class folks thinking about school before the kid was born had the act together to do that.

All that indicates is that we need a lot more ET schools.

TBH about 25% (instead of the current 90%!) of schools being catholic would be about in line with demand these days. Maybe less! Non-religious marriages now outnumber catholic marriages yet in most cases these future parents have no option but to send their kids to a catholic school when the time comes.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2021 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117222958#Comment_117222958

ET schools are national schools.

[Deleted User] · 07-01-2022 9:18am

Well here it is: https://www.educatetogether.ie/news/anti-racism-in-our-schools/

White privilege, privilege checklists, "anti-racism" dogma, and so forth.

AndrewJRenko · 07-01-2022 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431428#Comment_118431428

Great to see it.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-01-2022 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431428#Comment_118431428

Are you actually looking for an ET place (and if so, why, when you seem to dislike them so much? there are thousands of parents who'd bite your hand off for an ET place) or just conducting a bashing exercise?

But yes every school should have an anti-racism policy. The oh-so-white Ireland of the 20th century is dead and gone.

Educate Together schools

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