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26-10-2020, 18:15   #1
Bluefoam
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Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

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Well the housing minister said in July: “You’ll know that for 2020, the target was to deliver 11,167 social homes through the Build, Acquisitions and Leasing programmes combined,” O’Brien said.“

That’s a lot of government purchases/leases in the private market, directly competing with first time buyers, especially given how little dedicated social housing they’re building.

Basically, the government is the housing market now and they’re taxing/ will be taxing younger workers more and more to continue outbidding them for housing in the marketplace. Basically younger workers are funding their main competitor in the marketplace i.e. the government. Hard to win a bidding war against them IMO.

Link here: https://www.thejournal.ie/housing-mi...55602-Jul2020/
Oh, I thought we were discussing the *imminent crash... It seems what we are actally discussing is how unfair it is on first time buyers...

And while I do feel bad for first time buyers allot of the time... It has always been difficult to get on the property ladder... However, as I said earlier, there are some people wishing us into a property crash, because they think it's an opportunity for them... That's a short sighted view.

I do wonder to myself, when I hear coworkers complaining about no being able to afford their first house at the age of 35+, and then a minute later telling you how they are replacing their two year old car with the newer version that costs 35k each time... While they're playing on their latest model iPhone...

Yes it's difficult, but it can be done... Is it fair? Probably not... But if it's what you want, get on with it... Just get it done, however long it takes. If you want other things, then put resources into them.
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26-10-2020, 18:32   #2
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Oh, I thought we were discussing the *imminent crash... It seems what we are actally discussing is how unfair it is on first time buyers...

And while I do feel bad for first time buyers allot of the time... It has always been difficult to get on the property ladder... However, as I said earlier, there are some people wishing us into a property crash, because they think it's an opportunity for them... That's a short sighted view.

I do wonder to myself, when I hear coworkers complaining about no being able to afford their first house at the age of 35+, and then a minute later telling you how they are replacing their two year old car with the newer version that costs 35k each time... While they're playing on their latest model iPhone...

Yes it's difficult, but it can be done... Is it fair? Probably not... But if it's what you want, get on with it... Just get it done, however long it takes. If you want other things, then put resources into them.
Well they work hard and deserve their high salaries. There’s this nonsense in the country at the moment that just because they earn high salaries they should then pay more than market price i.e. the price they would be paying if the government wasn’t continuously outbidding them for a home to either buy or rent.

I think you’ll agree that it’s the government purchases/leases (paid with borrowed money) that is keeping house prices/rents high.

This will stop sooner than many people realise and that’s probably when the real major crash will happen. The governments removal from the market through either not being able to borrow any more or not needing social housing anymore (that’s very possible in my opinion and may happen sooner than many people realise) will be equivalent (probably worse) to the banking bust over 10 years ago.
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26-10-2020, 18:41   #3
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Oh, I thought we were discussing the *imminent crash... It seems what we are actally discussing is how unfair it is on first time buyers...

And while I do feel bad for first time buyers allot of the time... It has always been difficult to get on the property ladder... However, as I said earlier, there are some people wishing us into a property crash, because they think it's an opportunity for them... That's a short sighted view.

I do wonder to myself, when I hear coworkers complaining about no being able to afford their first house at the age of 35+, and then a minute later telling you how they are replacing their two year old car with the newer version that costs 35k each time... While they're playing on their latest model iPhone...

Yes it's difficult, but it can be done... Is it fair? Probably not... But if it's what you want, get on with it... Just get it done, however long it takes. If you want other things, then put resources into them.
I assume they're eating avocado toast as they tell you all this?
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26-10-2020, 18:48   #4
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Sure you can buy a house for 350 iPhones.
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26-10-2020, 18:57   #5
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I do wonder to myself, when I hear coworkers complaining about no being able to afford their first house at the age of 35+, and then a minute later telling you how they are replacing their two year old car with the newer version that costs 35k each time... While they're playing on their latest model iPhone...
I literally don't know a single person who has ever bought a car new, but iPhones come as part of contracts.

Giving you benefit of the doubt though - being able to get either of these things would have effectively no implications for your mortgage facilitated buying power anyway, which is almost completely dictated by the salary cap. You would be saving your entire career and not make up the difference in buying power the salary cap has hobbled you with.
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26-10-2020, 19:09   #6
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I'd hazzard a guess he was referencing the lack of financial discipline exhibited by the 'I'm worth it' crowd.

I never took an overseas holiday while saving for my deposit and I drove the same used car for 12 years and did my own maintaince on it. There weren't any mobile phones then, but had there been, no way would I get one on contract. A used phone, PAYG, no data and watch the calls.
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26-10-2020, 19:15   #7
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Jaysus calm down everyone, I'm not the enemy... I've just spent ten years getting back on my feet. Sold my home in the last recession and had to pay off that debt before competing with the government to buy a tiny house.... I'm not a high earner, just an average buyer.

My point is that it is possible. I gave up literally everything to get here, but that was my priority.
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26-10-2020, 19:59   #8
Dwarf.Shortage
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I'd hazzard a guess he was referencing the lack of financial discipline exhibited by the 'I'm worth it' crowd.

I never took an overseas holiday while saving for my deposit and I drove the same used car for 12 years and did my own maintaince on it. There weren't any mobile phones then, but had there been, no way would I get one on contract. A used phone, PAYG, no data and watch the calls.
Is there a parcel motel near you? there's a medal here burning a hole in my pocket.

You can get a plan with unlimited calls and data for €7.99 a month so the concept of going without data in 2020 to try buy a house is just austerity porn. It's an irrelevant level of expense for something most people get enormous value from.

FTB's will be told to start going splits with a mate on a pair of shoes and both hop around the place next.
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26-10-2020, 20:28   #9
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Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
I'd hazzard a guess he was referencing the lack of financial discipline exhibited by the 'I'm worth it' crowd.

I never took an overseas holiday while saving for my deposit and I drove the same used car for 12 years and did my own maintaince on it. There weren't any mobile phones then, but had there been, no way would I get one on contract. A used phone, PAYG, no data and watch the calls.
No mobile phones. Right I'll go with he 80s:

Average wage of £8,000-15,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about £30,000.


Now:

Average wage of €30,000-50,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about €400,000.
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26-10-2020, 20:54   #10
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No mobile phones. Right I'll go with he 80s:

Average wage of £8,000-15,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about £30,000.


Now:

Average wage of €30,000-50,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about €400,000.



You would also have to adjust for tax rates there as well. It might not make a huge difference, but it might make a bit of a difference!
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26-10-2020, 20:54   #11
Dwarf.Shortage
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No mobile phones. Right I'll go with he 80s:

Average wage of £8,000-15,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about £30,000.


Now:

Average wage of €30,000-50,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about €400,000.
This is the bit the austerity porn crowd refuse to engage with. That if you're on the average industrial wage in 2020 you can save what you want, you won't be able to buy a house.
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26-10-2020, 20:57   #12
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This is the bit the austerity porn crowd refuse to engage with. That if you're on the average industrial wage in 2020 you can save what you want, you won't be able to buy a house.



There are limits though. There are a lot of people who fritter away money on shite. Real disposable income is a far higher proportion of peoples gross income these days.
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26-10-2020, 21:15   #13
Dwarf.Shortage
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There are limits though. There are a lot of people who fritter away money on shite. Real disposable income is a far higher proportion of peoples gross income these days.
If you are on the average industrial wage in this country you can get a maximum mortgage of €133k, the average house price is €267,000.

Can you imagine how frustrating it is to need a €134,000 deposit to buy the average house, despite being on the average industrial wage, and to have people who bought in the 80s and pulled the ladder up after them tell you that your problem is that you have an iPhone?

It's f**king nonsense.
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26-10-2020, 21:16   #14
cnocbui
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Is there a parcel motel near you? there's a medal here burning a hole in my pocket.

You can get a plan with unlimited calls and data for €7.99 a month so the concept of going without data in 2020 to try buy a house is just austerity porn. It's an irrelevant level of expense for something most people get enormous value from.

FTB's will be told to start going splits with a mate on a pair of shoes and both hop around the place next.
Is the medal worth much? If so, I'll happily take it and sell it and add the proceeds to my next house to buy fund. Avocados are 69c in Lidl and a slice of toast would hardly be 3c, i'd imagine, so cheap snack/meal. That 48.ie plan is really good value, thanks, I'll probably subscibe.
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26-10-2020, 21:27   #15
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I'd hazzard a guess he was referencing the lack of financial discipline exhibited by the 'I'm worth it' crowd.

I never took an overseas holiday while saving for my deposit and I drove the same used car for 12 years and did my own maintaince on it. There weren't any mobile phones then, but had there been, no way would I get one on contract. A used phone, PAYG, no data and watch the calls.
I'm laughing at this post because I can't recall the last time I left the province, never mind the country, and I don't own a car. My phone is used for work, so contract works out significantly cheaper.

These posts are mad, it's like the Torys in the UK asking why people won't just sell their pearls, just completely unmoored from the fundamental economics of 2020 -

No amount of saving on the average wage will put you in reach of a mortgage that will buy you the average house. If you never bought another phone or filled a petrol tank, you still won't be able to change the salary cap.

The median private sector wage of about 31k can get a mortgage topping out at about 110k. Even if you didn't buy food, pay rent or use a single bus, you will not save the difference between your available mortgage and what a house would actually cost. No amount of packed lunches are going to save 150k.
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