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10-02-2019, 17:11   #31
massy086
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Originally Posted by mr_cochise View Post
A colleague of mine said he also ignored it about 2 years ago and there was no further noise about it.

There are a few other minor items on the report that I don't mind doing, ie, window restrictors and putting the fire blanket in a more prominent place. These are clearly spelled out in the regs.
It was just that the regs are not so specific on the ventilation.
make Sure the window restrictor are the non locking with a key type as the won't accept these.
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10-02-2019, 19:18   #32
Old diesel
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Originally Posted by antoinolachtnai View Post
What are these special HAP rules? These are just the standards for renter dwellings surely?
The HAP inspectors seem according to people who have had inspections for HAP - insist on things like ventilation been up to 2018 building regs.

A key issue appears to be that HAP inspectors want wall ventilation in each room. So to comply - you'd have to spend a lot of money to drill holes for this ventilation.

Whats not clear is whether there are specific official guidelines or rules saying that all HAP properties must hit 2018 regs.

Or if this is inspectors going over the top in their application of the rules.

There is a 22 page checklist apparently.

Further clarification is needed as the justification for 2018 regs needs to be explained.
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10-02-2019, 19:47   #33
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Link here to the hap inspection guidelines https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/up...17_%281%29.pdf
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10-02-2019, 19:58   #34
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It’s laid down in legislation. It’s the same standard as for all accommodation. The requirement is for ‘adequate ventilation’.

They can’t hold you to a new building standard.
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10-02-2019, 20:01   #35
emeldc
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Originally Posted by Pkiernan View Post
With regards to ventilation there is no difference.

Minimum landlord obligations detailed here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...ds.html#l629ff
I’ve highlighted the bits I’m talking about.

Quote:
They must also provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, to include the following:

4-ring hob with oven and grill
Cooker hood or extractor fan
Fridge and freezer, or a fridge-freezer
Microwave oven
Kitchen cupboards that are suitable and adequate for storing food
Sink with mains water supply, hot water and draining area

For dwellings rented from local authorities and approved housing bodies, the relevant requirements are in Article 7 of the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 1993. This Article requires the landlord to provide facilities for:

Installation of cooking equipment with provision, where necessary, for the safe and effective removal of fumes
Hygienic storage of food
My appt has a cooker with filtered hood. It is not on an outside wall and so an expelair type fan cannot be fitted. But the kitchen/dining room is open plan and has plenty of other outside wall ventilation. Not good enough for the hap man unfortunately but as you can read for yourself, perfectly ok for a private tenant. By the way they also asked for an ‘ECTI’ cert and an equivalent gas cert. These alone can cost between €300-€500 each. Even my insurance company don’t look for them.
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10-02-2019, 20:16   #36
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He isn’t a HAP man. He’s an inspector for the local authority. He applies the same criteria to non-HAP accommodation.

What exactly did his report say? The exact words matter.
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10-02-2019, 20:33   #37
emeldc
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Originally Posted by antoinolachtnai View Post
He isn’t a HAP man. He’s an inspector for the local authority. He applies the same criteria to non-HAP accommodation.

What exactly did his report say? The exact words matter.
Ok, I’ll try again.
The minimum standards for rental accommodation state;
Cooker hood OR extractor fan. So a private tenant would have no issue with either of these.
In my appt The cooker hood and filter is not acceptable to the inspector (sorry if I offended you by calling him the HAP man) because technically the fumes are not being extracted by a fan. I can’t remember the exact wording and I don’t have the letter handy.
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10-02-2019, 21:07   #38
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There is nothing wrong with your setup. Did you ask the inspector where the legislation provided for this requirement?
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10-02-2019, 21:09   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old diesel View Post
The HAP inspectors seem according to people who have had inspections for HAP - insist on things like ventilation been up to 2018 building regs.

A key issue appears to be that HAP inspectors want wall ventilation in each room. So to comply - you'd have to spend a lot of money to drill holes for this ventilation.

Whats not clear is whether there are specific official guidelines or rules saying that all HAP properties must hit 2018 regs.

Or if this is inspectors going over the top in their application of the rules.

There is a 22 page checklist apparently.

Further clarification is needed as the justification for 2018 regs needs to be explained.
Drilling holes in a wall for ventilation is not expensive, I own a century old stone built house which I have leased to the council for ten years, I was not going to drill through stone so fitted trickle vents on the windows, council inspector would not accept trickle vents so I fitted vented slates on the roof and piped in through the attic with Duct pipe into the bedrooms, eventually the cold outside air will result in a damp attic but the council have no common sense

Council had no choice but accept trickle vents down stairs
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10-02-2019, 21:16   #40
emeldc
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Originally Posted by antoinolachtnai View Post
There is nothing wrong with your setup. Did you ask the inspector where the legislation provided for this requirement?
Nope. I didn’t have the funds to carry out any work at the time as I had lost out on nearly 3 months rent while waiting for the application to go through, so I said I’d wait until I got a follow up letter. It hasn’t arrived yet. The appt was inspected in June '17, and I was notified around November '17.
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10-02-2019, 21:21   #41
_Brian
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You can pop off the inner cover on the trickle vents and remove the damper, refit the cover and there you go, ventilation permanently open.
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10-02-2019, 21:23   #42
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Sounds like you have received the Notice of Works.

You are supposed to remedy the situation in x number of weeks.

If they reinspect and the defect is not repaired, you might get a Notification Letter (gentle reminder) or an Improvement Notice (a bit more stern).

Then it depends on the Council's resources and if the tenant complains. Most Councils don't have the manpower to keep on inspecting over and over again. You can play the long game.

However, it won't be forgotten about.

You will probably have to fix it eventually.

A Prohibtion Notice would be the ultimate sanction. You wouldn't be able to let again under HAP.
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10-02-2019, 21:34   #43
emeldc
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Originally Posted by Jimbob1977 View Post
Sounds like you have received the Notice of Works.

You are supposed to remedy the situation in x number of weeks.

If they reinspect and the defect is not repaired, you might get a Notification Letter (gentle reminder) or an Improvement Notice (a bit more stern).

Then it depends on the Council's resources and if the tenant complains. Most Councils don't have the manpower to keep on inspecting over and over again. You can play the long game.

However, it won't be forgotten about.

You will probably have to fix it eventually.

A Prohibtion Notice would be the ultimate sanction. You wouldn't be able to let again under HAP.
Yea, I’ve no doubt they’ll come back to me on it. I deal with it when they do. My understanding of the prohibition notice was that it was across the board, not just for a Hap rental although you’d wonder how they would enforce it on a private rental.
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12-02-2019, 10:17   #44
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Originally Posted by emeldc View Post
Ok, I’ll try again.
The minimum standards for rental accommodation state;
Cooker hood OR extractor fan. So a private tenant would have no issue with either of these.
In my appt The cooker hood and filter is not acceptable to the inspector (sorry if I offended you by calling him the HAP man) because technically the fumes are not being extracted by a fan. I can’t remember the exact wording and I don’t have the letter handy.
Hi I can offer clarification. The need for it to go to external air IS in fact from the private rented regulations. Not some mystical HAP standards. Thr wording from The Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017 is:
Suitable facilities for the effective and safe removal of fumes TO THE EXTERNAL AIR by means of a cooker hood or extractor fan.

There is only one set of regulations regarding housing standards. The crap that people spout about special rules for HAP tenants is misleading, wrong and possibly harmful. The issue is that a HAP property has to be inspected within a certain time frame and is therefore prioritised.
With current resources and the amount of HAP coming online, it makes it less and less likely that a non HAP property will be inspected.
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12-02-2019, 10:50   #45
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Originally Posted by emeldc View Post
Ok, I’ll try again.
The minimum standards for rental accommodation state;
Cooker hood OR extractor fan. So a private tenant would have no issue with either of these.
In my appt The cooker hood and filter is not acceptable to the inspector (sorry if I offended you by calling him the HAP man) because technically the fumes are not being extracted by a fan. I can’t remember the exact wording and I don’t have the letter handy.
The filter in the hood just needs to be changed, costs about 3-4 euro and takes about 2 minutes.
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