Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

davidjtaylor · 19-09-2018 12:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve also learned that the ignore option also takes away the oxygen.

Yes, it takes away unnecessary distractions. Use it, people, and get on with your lives.

19-09-2018 1:17am

Will be great to see new data on the amount of people switching to a plant based lifestyle in those movies.

Would be great if the data was broken down somewhat as in -

- how many are doing it for all the health benefits that come with not eating meat or dairy ?

- how many are doing it to abstain from the animal cruelty involved in the process

- how many are doing it to reduce their impact on the planet

Some of the figures I’ve been reading seem staggering so I’d love to see some up-to-date data laid out in an easy to read/see format.

gozunda · 19-09-2018 1:20am

Not at yourself btw -

'I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it...'

T'is a pity that some don't agree with that axiom for whatever reason.

Saying something 'can't' be criticised is a very slippery slope indeed. Plenty of examples of that in history

TheFortField wrote: »

...
Anyway, have you any WFPB documentaries that you are prepared to recommend?

And to answer your question directly - to date I have found that nearly all of the big production stuff like 'Forks over knives' which I've watched have significant issues with regards to the veracity of health claims and content etc as I have already detailed. That is as valuable an answer as I can give you. They are also best described as films and not documentaries imo. I would point out that most are not specifically WFPB but come with a big side order of sensationalism on other subjects etc. So it is quite difficult to recommend those films of that type tbh.

So this particular video I've picked out is not a slick or big budget film - rather it's a regular vegan youtuber video which comes across as honest, informative and thought provoking. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQtMnrV6oM

Tilikum17 · 19-09-2018 7:28am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s a few posters I have on ignore now so not sure what you guys are referring to but it’s always best to report a post rather than give oxygen.

I’ve also learned that the ignore option also takes away the oxygen.

The ‘report post’ button is there for a good reason.

+1.

I find the forum is much more enjoyable when you don’t have to see one particular posters wall upon wall of spiel in most threads.

19-09-2018 8:36am

Tilikum17 wrote: »

+1.

I find the forum is much more enjoyable when you don’t have to see one particular posters wall upon wall of spiel in most threads.

Have to agree with you 100%.

I had to take the time to login via my laptop to use the ignore button (haven’t worked out how to do it on my phone) but it was really worth the effort.

And if people ignore and don’t reply then soon enough he’ll be talking to just himself.

Not replying is key.

Tilikum17 · 19-09-2018 8:39am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have to agree with you 100%.

I had to take the time to login via my laptop to use the ignore button (haven’t worked out how to do it on my phone) but it was really worth the effort.

And if people ignore and don’t reply then soon enough he’ll be talking to just himself.

Not replying is key.

On your phone - go to the bottom of the screen & click on ‘full site’. Then control panel, edit ignore list & so on.

Then back to the bottom of the screen & click on ‘touch site’

gozunda · 19-09-2018 8:43am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have to agree with you 100%. I had to take the time to login via my laptop to use the ignore button (haven’t worked out how to do it on my phone) but it was really worth the effort. And if people ignore and don’t reply then soon enough he’ll be talking to just himself. Not replying is key.

Agree with this constant ignoring for sure

Afaik the ignore button works on both your phone and laptop. Does on mine anyway...

Edit: thanks Tilikum - you got there before me ...

davidjtaylor · 19-09-2018 9:40am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Will be great to see new data on the amount of people switching to a plant based lifestyle in those movies.

I don’t recall any figures in any of the docs. These things quickly ‘date’ so they’d have to state exactly what period they’re referring to.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some of the figures I’ve been reading seem staggering

Yes, I’ve heard some wild figures but I’m suspicious of them. More and more people are definitely becoming aware that veganism’s not scary, that’s for sure, but actual numbers following a plant-based lifestyle full-time is still low.

The most I’ve ever seen at a Galway potluck, for instance, is around 80. That in itself is brilliant but not great in a city full of intelligent people.

We have to work on eliminating unfounded negativity - remember, there isn’t a single reason on the planet to knock a proper plant-based diet, but people still do for their own selfish and unempathetic reasons - as well as support any business or venture that actually understands and uses the word ‘vegan’ in an honest way.

19-09-2018 10:20am

davidjtaylor wrote: »

I don’t recall any figures in any of the docs. These things quickly ‘date’ so they’d have to state exactly what period they’re referring to.

Yes, I’ve heard some wild figures but I’m suspicious of them. More and more people are definitely becoming aware that veganism’s not scary, that’s for sure, but actual numbers following a plant-based lifestyle full-time is still low.

The most I’ve ever seen at a Galway potluck, for instance, is around 80. That in itself is brilliant but not great in a city full of intelligent people.

We have to work on eliminating unfounded negativity - remember, there isn’t a single reason on the planet to knock a proper plant-based diet, but people still do for their own selfish and unempathetic reasons - as well as support any business or venture that actually understands and uses the word ‘vegan’ in an honest way.

That’s a good point.

The idea of a vegan being a tree hugging and dreadlocked idealist hasn’t been accepted for a while now.

The image is changing. Social media is helping. Movies and documentaries are helping. Literature is helping. The medical proof of the benefits helps.

Athletes performing at the top of their disciplines also helps.

Actors, musicians and sports stars impact the decisions of younger people.

All that tied in with the fact that most people love animals and are now starting to understand the cruelty involved in their cultural choices helps.

We also have to thank the people that have risked their own liberty to expose the true barbarity of the meat and diary industries. There is nothing better than seeing it with your own eyes.

I hear what you’re saying about the gathering in Galway but if you look into the social changes and choices and options in a city like Melbourne you can see what is possible.

gozunda · 19-09-2018 12:40pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

I don’t recall any figures in any of the docs. These things quickly ‘date’ so they’d have to state exactly what period they’re referring to.

Yes, I’ve heard some wild figures but I’m suspicious of them. More and more people are definitely becoming aware that veganism’s not scary, that’s for sure, but actual numbers following a plant-based lifestyle full-time is still low.

The most I’ve ever seen at a Galway potluck, for instance, is around 80. That in itself is brilliant but not great in a city full of intelligent people.

We have to work on eliminating unfounded negativity - remember, there isn’t a single reason on the planet to knock a proper plant-based diet, but people still do for their own selfish and unempathetic reasons - as well as support any business or venture that actually understands and uses the word ‘vegan’ in an honest way.

I agree with a lot you say there. However at the piece highlighted - imo it is a fallacy to state that something 'can't or shouldn't be criticised. That is a slippery slope of which there are plenty of examples in history.

And in truth no-one here afaik is 'knocking a plant based diet'. Rather the issues highlighted concern those films which appear to be using the subtext to serve up a big side order of sensationalism on other subjects.

Having an opinion or being objective regarding such films is therefore neither 'selfish or 'unempathetic' regardless of any hyperbole. No one needs to be told what or how to think ...

As stated in the video I posted - many such films seem to alienate more than they educate or inform.

19-09-2018 1:25pm

Not sure if any of you are based in England but this is happening in London -

https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/vegan-2018-documentary-premiere-london-leicester-square

davidjtaylor · 19-09-2018 1:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure if any of you are based in England but this is happening in London -

https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/vegan-2018-documentary-premiere-london-leicester-square

Looks good. There was a Vegan 2016 and a Vegan 2017 too. Fair play to 'em.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-09-2018 2:34pm

I'm in London often and it's crazy how much veganism has increased in presence there. If I'm back when this is on I'll check it out, cheers!

TheFortField · 25-09-2018 6:30pm

gozunda wrote: »

So this particular video I've picked out is not a slick or big budget film - rather it's a regular vegan youtuber video which comes across as honest, informative and thought provoking. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQtMnrV6oM

I watched this video and the only thing I agree with her on, is her point that it's okay for a vegan or those following a plant-based diet to be critical of some of the pro-vegan articles and documentaries'.

However, I think she has a bit of cheek to find fault with the work/research of qualified and some (very experienced) medical practitioners. She may be vegan but what qualifications does she have? I have had my clashes with traditional medical practitioners in the past and I'm not afraid to question them if I've concerns about the advice/treatment they're prescribing etc. However, in this case I would place much more weight on the opinions and testimony of Dr. Michael Greger and his colleagues than some random You Tuber.

jh79 · 25-09-2018 6:50pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I watched this video and the only thing I agree with is her on, is her point that it's okay for a vegan or those following a plant-based diet to be critical of some of the pro-vegan articles and documentaries'.

However, I think she has a bit of cheek to find fault with the work/research of qualified and some (very experienced) medical practitioners. She may be vegan but what qualifications doe she have? I have had my clashes with traditional medical practitioners in the past and I'm not afraid to question them if I've concerns about the advice/treatment they're prescribing etc. However, in this case I would place much more weight on the opinions and testimony of Dr. Michael Greger and his colleagues than some random You Tuber.

Here's a review by science based medicine.

There are undisputed health advantages to a plant-based diet, but the evidence is insufficient to recommend that everyone adopt a vegan diet. The What the Health movie is not a balanced documentary, but an alarmist, biased polemic. It cherry-picks scientific studies, exaggerates, makes claims that are untrue, relies on testimonials and interviews with questionable “experts,” and fails to put the evidence into perspective. It presents no evidence to support the claim that a vegan diet can prevent and cure all the major diseases. It is simply not a reliable source of health information.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-the-health-a-movie-with-an-agenda/

davidjtaylor · 25-09-2018 8:50pm

jh79 wrote: »

It cherry-picks scientific studies, exaggerates, makes claims that are untrue, relies on testimonials and interviews with questionable “experts,” and fails to put the evidence into perspective.

That applies to more than just documentaries. Pick any 'study' by Monsanto, for instance, or the dairy industry.

jh79 · 25-09-2018 9:00pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

That applies to more than just documentaries. Pick any 'study' by Monsanto, for instance, or the dairy industry.

Big difference between a documentary misrepresenting scientific data and studies that provide methodologies that allow the reader to asses for any bias or flaws.

If you know they are essentially works of fiction why bother with them?

gozunda · 25-09-2018 9:30pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

That applies to more than just documentaries. Pick any 'study' by Monsanto, for instance, or the dairy industry.

It remains that the veracity or otherwise of whoever neither excuses or justifies the misuse of information and the making of fabulous claims based on specific scientific studies.

In fact in doing so to promote veganism - such 'documentaries' become little more than propaganda type films

gozunda · 25-09-2018 9:49pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I watched this video and the only thing I agree with her on, is her point that it's okay for a vegan or those following a plant-based diet to be critical of some of the pro-vegan articles and documentaries'.
However, I think she has a bit of cheek to find fault with the work/research of qualified and some (very experienced) medical practitioners. She may be vegan but what qualifications doe she have?
I have had my clashes with traditional medical practitioners in the past and I'm not afraid to question them if I've concerns about the advice/treatment they're prescribing etc. However, in this case I would place much more weight on the opinions and testimony of Dr. Michael Greger and his colleagues than some random You Tuber.

I believe you will find that she is being critical of much of the presentation and interpretation of the work/research of various medical practitioners and scientists used in the "What the Health" video.

In this she needs no relevant medical qualifications - just an enquiring and objective assesment of the video. As detailed previously there a number of other vegans who have already detailed the misuse of such research and scientific data as being detrimental to veganism overall.

With regards to Dr Greger - he remains a controversial figure who has been criticised by other medical professionals for his extreme stance on the promotion of a vegan lifestyle. It has been said that "Greger often overstates the known benefits of such a (vegan) diet as well as the harm caused by eating animal products (for example, in a talk, he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries), and he sometimes does not discuss evidence that contradicts his strong claims."

I find her views to be fairly balanced tbh.

See:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/

davidjtaylor · 26-09-2018 1:55pm

jh79 wrote: »

Big difference between a documentary misrepresenting scientific data and studies that provide methodologies that allow the reader to asses for any bias or flaws.

If you know they are essentially works of fiction why bother with them?

A misrepresentation is a misrepresentation, however you present it.

jh79 · 26-09-2018 3:16pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

A misrepresentation is a misrepresentation, however you present it.

Doesn't excuse the lies peddled by this movie.

So why do you watch movies like this knowing that the majority of the claims made in them are false?

davidjtaylor · 26-09-2018 4:31pm

jh79 wrote: »

Doesn't excuse the lies peddled by this movie.

So why do you watch movies like this knowing that the majority of the claims made in them are false?

There's never an excuse for lies, whether by Bayer or Tony Blair.

I watch whatever I want and make up my own mind, just the same as you.

gozunda · 26-09-2018 4:51pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

There's never an excuse for lies, whether by Bayer or Tony Blair. I watch whatever I want and make up my own mind, just the same as you.

Well if you've watched them fair enough and if you wish to ignore the evidence otherwise.
However actively promoting and pushing such films purely on the basis that they are pro-vegan where it's impossible to make that type of judgement makes no sense whatsover

For example from the blog posted previously...

Documentaries worth seeing...

I haven’t watched all of these and some I’ve only seen a half or so.

https://www.livingvegan.ie/documentaries-worth-seeing/

jh79 · 26-09-2018 5:26pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

There's never an excuse for lies, whether by Bayer or Tony Blair.

I watch whatever I want and make up my own mind, just the same as you.

Now you know that the claims made in the film are not evidence based what's your opinion of the film?

davidjtaylor · 27-09-2018 11:55am

jh79 wrote: »

Now you know that the claims made in the film are not evidence based what's your opinion of the film?

I'll watch it sometime and let you know.

davidjtaylor · 27-09-2018 11:59am

This is probably the most useful starting point if you're worried about What the Health?

jh79 · 27-09-2018 1:36pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

This is probably the most useful starting point if you're worried about What the Health?

So in summary the film is a load of nonsense.

gozunda · 27-09-2018 5:34pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

This is probably the most useful starting point if you're worried about What the Health?

And yet when posted that exact review of 'What the Health' linked above I was ignored and later made out as derailing the thread ???

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057902074/1/#post107998033

As someone said previously - it can be a bit of an echo chamber here at times ...

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

Tar.Aldarion · 04-10-2018 1:21pm

Diminion will be made free soon to stream

Tilikum17 · 06-10-2018 9:02pm

https://vimeo.com/293352305/2e938735db

Beef farmer that struggles with his conscience

Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

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