Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

Manic Moran · 08-12-2009 6:50pm

McArmalite wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing, for a daft post it's run 6 pages in 2 days, not bad going Paddy.

Actually, I've got half a mind to 'Sticky' it. Even with the WM forum, there's one of these pretty routinely, I wonder if there's some consideration to simply chucking this up here and say 'If you think Ireland is under-defended, post in here'

While there is merit in separating the US from Europe, there isn't much chance of Russia or China getting enough aircraft to Ireland with the rest of NATO having a whack at them.

But where? How many aircraft would NATO have to spare to defend Ireland from a flank attack when everything in the Red Army's arsenal is blowing at best speed to Warsaw?

NTM

troubleshooter · 08-12-2009 6:50pm

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

I don't think we can ignore the fact that Irish territorial waters are defenceless against submarine attack. A rogue Islamic state could position a submarine with medium range ballistic missiles capable of hitting European cities off the west coast of Ireland. What are the chances of Nato forces detecting and distroying it in time. Very slight. We should at least ensure that the Irish navy has some sort of anti submarine capability.

Now I know your a wind up

concussion · 08-12-2009 7:09pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

But where? How many aircraft would NATO have to spare to defend Ireland from a flank attack when everything in the Red Army's arsenal is blowing at best speed to Warsaw?

NTM

I thought we were dealing with a foreign power invading Ireland (due to the inclusion of China as a possible belligerant power), not Russia taking over Europe. Quite rightly, if the Russians were coming in from the East, things would be a bit sticky.

mrmanire · 08-12-2009 7:39pm

troubleshooter wrote: »

Now I know your a wind up

A windup but a funny windup at that.

What would it take to give us NATO style capabilities (fighter jets, modern naval warfare capable, etc)? It would probably take quadrupling the defence budget to maintain such infrastructure. This of course discounts the lack of 50 years capital expenditure to build up such infrastructure. Thus, no fighter planes or shiny missile launching Naval ships for us any time soon.

McArmalite wrote: »

And the 100th brit this year wasn't whacked in Afghanistan yesterday... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Not very nice...
Brit = Person, Whacked = Killed.

chem · 08-12-2009 7:53pm

So why dont we face the fact our army is useless against attack, and go like the Swiss militia? Spend the money that the army get at present on upgrading our hardware and after that every man from 18-50 is trained and ready for call up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army

mrmanire · 08-12-2009 7:55pm

chem wrote: »

So why dont we face the fact our army is useless against attack, and go like the Swiss militia? Spend the money that the army get at present on upgrading our hardware and after that every man from 18-60 is trained and ready for call up?

Would certainly keep us out of the pub

Poccington · 08-12-2009 9:32pm

I love this thread.

Poccington · 08-12-2009 9:33pm

McArm and Fred, cop on.

OS119 · 08-12-2009 9:45pm

concussion wrote: »

I thought we were dealing with a foreign power invading Ireland (due to the inclusion of China as a possible belligerant power), not Russia taking over Europe. Quite rightly, if the Russians were coming in from the East, things would be a bit sticky.

i would suggest that the only 'realistic' scenario in which Irish territorial integrity is threatened is one in which controlling/denying the Atlantic is critical to either side in a much larger conflict - the only likely non-NATO power for whom closing the Atlantic to NATO shipping (or at least putting a dent in it) would be a requirement for a successful campaign is Russia.

NATO currently has an airpower 'ring' around the north Atlantic, (Greenland, Icelad, Norway, Faroes, Scotland, Bay of Biscay, Portugal, Azores, Bermuda and the Continental US and Canada) precisely because the Atlantic SLOC's are the be-all and end-all of NATO - a runway on the west/south-west coast of Ireland would a nice addition to that ring, or conversely would punch a hole in it. its for that reason that Ireland - purely by dint of its geographic position - is of interest to anyone who needs to control the Atlantic.

concussion · 08-12-2009 10:38pm

Don't forget the sonar belts!

Husqvarna · 08-12-2009 10:52pm

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

I don't think we can ignore the fact that Irish territorial waters are defenceless against submarine attack. A rogue Islamic state could position a submarine with medium range ballistic missiles capable of hitting European cities off the west coast of Ireland. What are the chances of Nato forces detecting and distroying it in time. Very slight. We should at least ensure that the Irish navy has some sort of anti submarine capability.

Yesterday I suggested that this was a piss take post. However, on mature reflection I think ShotgunPaddy has a very valid point here. I'm currently engaged in research in anti-Taliban trained dolphins as part of a top secret Irish Navy project. This is exactly the kind of thing we're investigating.

If anyone else has any other brilliant ideas on our national strategic defence can you please post here. Especially if they are cost-efficient ideas such as using dolphins rather than big old costly submarines.

And as mentioned earlier, this is top secret stuff, so can we keep it confined to these boards please? Shhhh....

concussion · 08-12-2009 10:55pm

I reckon we could use dogs. The Soviets trained dogs to run under enemy tanks with explosives attached to their back in order to blow them up - we could teach dogs how to to use SCUBA equipment strap limpet mines to them.

Husqvarna · 08-12-2009 10:58pm

Have you been reading our files? ****e, I think we've got a mole in our outfit. How did you know about the dogs?

concussion · 08-12-2009 11:13pm

I also know about the early-warning herring....

OS119 · 08-12-2009 11:45pm

and the ASW Sea Gulls. decent idea, needs a bit of work though....

troubleshooter · 09-12-2009 12:12am

chem wrote: »

So why dont we face the fact our army is useless against attack, and go like the Swiss militia? Spend the money that the army get at present on upgrading our hardware and after that every man from 18-50 is trained and ready for call up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army

Switzerland is a landlocked country whos access is by mountain passes and tunnels, Ireland is an island.

"Moreover, tunnels and key bridges are built with tank traps. Tunnels are also primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces. Permanent fortifications are established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. "

Grudaire · 09-12-2009 12:42am

troubleshooter wrote: »

Switzerland is a landlocked country whos access is by mountain passes and tunnels, Ireland is an island.

"Moreover, tunnels and key bridges are built with tank traps. Tunnels are also primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces. Permanent fortifications are established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. "

Hmmmm, there are various reasons why this exact plan will always be a non-runner for Ireland. (Mainly revolving around not wanting to arm our entire population, lest a minority decide to declare war... again, Also it rings too much of that dreaded 'conscription' :-o)

However the overall idea should be looked at, current Irish military policy seems to be based around the assumption that noone will attack us. There is no provision with supllies and bunkers etc. No protection for joe (non military) Soap...

chem · 09-12-2009 1:34am

troubleshooter wrote: »

Switzerland is a landlocked country whos access is by mountain passes and tunnels, Ireland is an island.

"Moreover, tunnels and key bridges are built with tank traps. Tunnels are also primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces. Permanent fortifications are established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. "

The only way we would win an invation, is buy arming the nation and using flying colum tatics. Hit hard and run away. No point in permanent fortifications here! As the UK recruited local pouchers(local knowalage of the area)
to wage a local war against a german attack. If they had invaded. The locual recruites had more advance weapons at the time,then the regular army at the time........

cyrusdvirus · 09-12-2009 9:36am

McArmalite wrote: »

And the 100th brit this year wasn't whacked in Afghanistan yesterday... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

You are one sick FCUK to be getting giggles out of a man being killed. I've reported your post and don't really care if i get infracted for my comments about you.

getz · 09-12-2009 9:44am

gatecrash wrote: »

You are one sick FCUK to be getting giggles out of a man being killed. I've reported your post and don't really care if i get infracted for my comments about you.

you have beat me to it

McArmalite · 09-12-2009 10:24am

Manic Moran wrote: »

Actually, I've got half a mind to 'Sticky' it. Even with the WM forum, there's one of these pretty routinely, I wonder if there's some consideration to simply chucking this up here and say 'If you think Ireland is under-defended, post in here'

Mightn't be a bad idea a sticky - " you think Ireland is under-defended, post in here ". Reckon the country is economically fecked to be spending much on teh military, but still kicking a few ideas around would be interesting. After all, that's what discussion boards are for.

Morpheus · 09-12-2009 10:30am

ASW Seagulls

You are soooo far behind the times, the navy are now using The Albatross B Long Range Reconnaissance model for Anti Submarine Patrols out into the atlantic.

These newer units are self sufficent and have an incredible loiter time, not to mention can carry a much heavier depth charge load.

These units are launched from various secret locations including a completely autonomous navalised version trained for launch and recovery off the deck of our "aircraft carrier" LE Eithne, we also have new land based areas namely, NestPad1 on the inaccessible (except to american tourists) Cliffs Of Moher, NestPad2 at Achill Island and NestPad3 based around Fort Davis in Cork, giving the republics forces coverage of most of the western approaches in the atlantic.

Over land, the army has stepped up its use of Aerial Assets too and having abandoned the outdated use of the unmanned orbiter UAV drones for forward reconnaissance they have now begun to train units in falconry.

To equip these units, newly imported Golden Eagles (currently being "bred" in kerry) these are being outfitted with the latest equipment for tracking enemy movement over land using the mark1 eagle eye system and a new Golden Eagle B version with the ability to carry munitions in two "Talon ™" hard points is under development and has been unofficially dubbed Strike Eagle.

More information on new systems as we get it!

I LOVE THIS THREAD

McArmalite · 09-12-2009 10:33am

gatecrash wrote: »

You are one sick FCUK to be getting giggles out of a man being killed. I've reported your post and don't really care if i get infracted for my comments about you.

I just stated a fact to Mr. Fratton in reply to him. It's just an actual fact, how you feel about it is up to you. Personnally I think some brits coming onto an Irish military forum continually sniping at the country deserves a responce. Fighting fire with fire etc

getz · 09-12-2009 10:39am

Morphéus wrote: »

You are soooo far behind the times, the navy are now using The Albatross B Long Range Reconnaissance model for Anti Submarine Patrols out into the atlantic.

These newer units are self sufficent and have an incredible loiter time, not to mention can carry a much heavier depth charge load.

These units are launched from various secret locations including a completely autonomous navalised version trained for launch and recovery off the deck of our "aircraft carrier" LE Eithne, we also have new land based areas namely, NestPad1 on the inaccessible (except to american tourists) Cliffs Of Moher, NestPad2 at Achill Island and NestPad3 based around Fort Davis in Cork, giving the republics forces coverage of most of the western approaches in the atlantic.

Over land, the army has stepped up its use of Aerial Assets too and having abandoned the outdated use of the unmanned orbiter UAV drones for forward reconnaissance they have now begun to train units in falconry.

To equip these units, newly imported Golden Eagles (currently being "bred" in kerry) these are being outfitted with the latest equipment for tracking enemy movement over land using the mark1 eagle eye system and a new Golden Eagle B version with the ability to carry munitions in two "Talon ™" hard points is under development and has been unofficially dubbed Strike Eagle.

More information on new systems as we get it!

I LOVE THIS THREAD

and you are missing[its still top secret] the navies underwater porpoise fleet, they have a range of over 1000 nautical miles

Tabnabs · 09-12-2009 10:45am

Morphéus wrote: »

You are soooo far behind the times, the navy are now using The Albatross B Long Range Reconnaissance model for Anti Submarine Patrols out into the atlantic.

These newer units are self sufficent and have an incredible loiter time, not to mention can carry a much heavier depth charge load.

These units are launched from various secret locations including a completely autonomous navalised version trained for launch and recovery off the deck of our "aircraft carrier" LE Eithne, we also have new land based areas namely, NestPad1 on the inaccessible (except to american tourists) Cliffs Of Moher, NestPad2 at Achill Island and NestPad3 based around Fort Davis in Cork, giving the republics forces coverage of most of the western approaches in the atlantic.

Over land, the army has stepped up its use of Aerial Assets too and having abandoned the outdated use of the unmanned orbiter UAV drones for forward reconnaissance they have now begun to train units in falconry.

To equip these units, newly imported Golden Eagles (currently being "bred" in kerry) these are being outfitted with the latest equipment for tracking enemy movement over land using the mark1 eagle eye system and a new Golden Eagle B version with the ability to carry munitions in two "Talon ™" hard points is under development and has been unofficially dubbed Strike Eagle.

More information on new systems as we get it!

I LOVE THIS THREAD

Pff, all amateur stuff, we all know that Sea Lions are the future of anti terrorism :pac:

(pssst, Funghi is really a GRU agent!)

Morpheus · 09-12-2009 10:47am

Thats "Rear Admiral" Funghi

to YOU sir!

BigDuffman · 09-12-2009 10:54am

Ironic that some muppet armchair republican quips about sniping and fighting fire with fire......Your type are the scourge of this country. Any life lost is surely worth more than a zzzzzzz. I'd prefer if more provo scum and their sympathizers got whacked than some "brit".

Need I remind you that yes you are on an Irish Military forum. And our cap badge does represent the Free state. So I'm surprised that a green blood like yourself can stomach being surrounded by traitors.

On a side note...can you imagine all the little knackers around the place being given free riddlers by the govt.!?!??! This place would resemble Liberia in about 48 Hrs.

Assault rifle toting muppets with their trousers tucked into their socks capping each other every 10 mins!

Dublin_Gunner · 09-12-2009 11:00am

BigDuffman wrote: »

Ironic that some muppet armchair republican quips about sniping and fighting fire with fire......Your type are the scourge of this country. Any life lost is surely worth more than a zzzzzzz. I'd prefer if more provo scum and their sympathizers got whacked than some "brit".

Need I remind you that yes you are on an Irish Military forum. And our cap badge does represent the Free state. So I'm surprised that a green blood like yourself can stomach being surrounded by traitors.

On a side note...can you imagine all the little knackers around the place being given free riddlers by the govt.!?!??! This place would resemble Liberia in about 48 Hrs.

Assault rifle toting muppets with their trousers tucked into their socks capping each other every 10 mins!

Although, maybe if they form a queue, arm them, and put them all into Croker or something - problem would be solved fairly quickly I'd imagine.

concussion · 09-12-2009 11:05am

Great work there Morpheus!

concussion · 09-12-2009 11:18am

chem wrote: »

The only way we would win an invation, is buy arming the nation and using flying colum tatics. Hit hard and run away. No point in permanent fortifications here! As the UK recruited local pouchers(local knowalage of the area)
to wage a local war against a german attack. If they had invaded. The locual recruites had more advance weapons at the time,then the regular army at the time........

The Defence Forces, on an individual level, were equipped with the same weapons as the British Army. There were also Mobile Columns in operation which were based on the Flying Columns of previous years. How were these British-organized local poachers better armed than the average Irish soldier? How many poachers were recruited? And can you answer my question to you about Ireland being the calibration point for nuclear weapons please?

Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

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