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Tenant alleging discrimination as evicting

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    #32
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    I can't see why anyone would become a independent LL, from what I've seen, read and heard it's a gamble for the sole landlord., the independent LL will can pay over 50% tax on the rental income, yet Reit and their ilk are paying only 12% tax on their income... So unfair.


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    #33
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    how did you find the tennant did the rtb help with their new rtb registration or did you have to investigate yourself?


    your one of the lucky few to get the 10 year judgement.

    is that judgement untaxed now or do you have to declare it ?


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    #34
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Visconti wrote: »
    Prtb held the hearing in their office near oconnell street.
    I won the hearing and prtb gave a judgement for almost everything I had claimed for.
    Prtb at my request brought it to circuit court and the judge then sided with me also. (Tenant never turned up)
    I then got the official judgement and brought it to the sherrif and asked them to enforce the judgement and take goods etc to the value of my judgement.
    The tenant buckled and made an offer to pay all the money with a weekly payment it will take 10 years.
    I have been receiving the money every week by direct debit.
    I have the file put away but could get it out for technical terms if people need clarification.
    Prtb are impartial in my experience.

    Thanks for replying. You are the 1st landlord that I have heard having a good outcome from the RTB, that's why I asked you the question.


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    #35
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,121 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    That's really good to hear. I definitely think that entire process you have laid out should be expedited but it's good to hear that it can be followed successfully and justice done.


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    #36
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    followed successfully and justice done.

    Success and Justice- are subjective though.

    If someone owed you 5,000- would you be happy to collect a tenner a week for ten years? I know I wouldn't. The hassle and paperwork- would be a freaking nightmare. It sounds like the poster was satisfied that he caused the tenant who deliberately set out to destroy his property- as much grief as possible. Extracting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth though- while it may be biblical- isn't fair or reasonable in my books- even if it does seem to suit some people?

    There has to be a better way of doing things.


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    #37
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,121 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Success and Justice- are subjective though.

    If someone owed you 5,000- would you be happy to collect a tenner a week for ten years? I know I wouldn't. The hassle and paperwork- would be a freaking nightmare. It sounds like the poster was satisfied that he caused the tenant who deliberately set out to destroy his property- as much grief as possible. Extracting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth though- while it may be biblical- isn't fair or reasonable in my books- even if it does seem to suit some people?

    There has to be a better way of doing things.

    Presumably the sheriff came back with the offer from the tenant and the aggrieved party chose to accept that as opposed to other options (goods to value of).

    The more this type of process was followed to a conclusion and became a normal consequence of ****ing things up the better it would be. The only problem we have here is the time it takes to move through the stages. Ideally we would invest to clear down backlogs at each stage of the process. But this is justice off the back of due process.

    What else would you suggest? I'm not close minded to other suggestions once they can be considered fair and transparent.


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    #38
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    The_Conductor wrote: »

    There has to be a better way of doing things.


    Absolutely and a government willing to back a new way, there just doesn't seem to be the stomach for it. Landords = bad, is working for the narrative of the current housing issues.


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    #39
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Success and Justice- are subjective though.

    If someone owed you 5,000- would you be happy to collect a tenner a week for ten years? I know I wouldn't. .

    you cannot get money they dont have either. You have to be practical too.

    what's your suggestion - take their 1st born child?


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    #40
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Xterminator wrote: »
    you cannot get money they dont have either. You have to be practical too.

    what's your suggestion - take their 1st born child?

    If it was me, I'd write off the €3k to get her out at the end of notice period. If she overholds and stops paying rent, it could take 3 times that in legal fees/lost rent and a miserable year to evict her.


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    #41
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    How long have they been tenants,
    Are there children in the house.
    When is the contract up,
    Are they keeping up payments.
    Have you had any issues with them since they moved in.


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    #42
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    CollyFlower wrote: »
    I can't see why anyone would become a independent LL, from what I've seen, read and heard it's a gamble for the sole landlord., the independent LL will can pay over 50% tax on the rental income, yet Reit and their ilk are paying only 12% tax on their income... So unfair.

    How many actually really pay 50%? My landlord certainly doesn't.


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    #43
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    utmbuilder wrote: »
    how did you find the tennant did the rtb help with their new rtb registration or did you have to investigate yourself?


    your one of the lucky few to get the 10 year judgement.

    is that judgement untaxed now or do you have to declare it ?

    Prtb found them. Social welfare had to pass on the tenants details to them from what I can remember but I cant be 100% sure. I was not furnished with this till either the court judgement or the file I brought to the sheriff but I knew their address only in the very end, all paperwork had their details blacked out.
    I also had them blacklisted as part of the procedure.
    My judgement is over 5k and will take years to clear but I got the best result I possibly could I recon.
    99% of the time these types of people walk away scott free but they did it too dirty for me to walk away.
    I have a few properties and have had bits of damage done and lost the odd months rent here and there it goes with the territory, I never once went to prtb just got on with it.
    This time it was different the way it was done was too filthy to let go. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did not at least try.
    I get the points people are making here and I suppose if its a 50/50 and the landlord is whingeing about a stain on the carpet and the tenant says it was there when they moved in etc etc prtb might side with the tenant.
    I would like to point out the day my case came up the solicitor representing prtb did great and I witnessed the lady win several cases for prtb.
    My experience with prtb was fair they did what they could with the parameters they have to deal with. I would have liked the money in a lump sum but that was never going to happen. A few people much more intelligent than me recon my case would have approx 10k ! I am out well over 5k and I have to write the final bit in capital letters.
    AFTER ALL THIS THE FAMILY WERE GIVEN A NICE FREE HOUSE FROM TUATH HOUSING.
    Makes me wonder how the system works.........
    I offered my story to several politicians and housing campaigners but nobody wanted to know.


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    #44
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Presumably the sheriff came back with the offer from the tenant and the aggrieved party chose to accept that as opposed to other options (goods to value of).

    The more this type of process was followed to a conclusion and became a normal consequence of ****ing things up the better it would be. The only problem we have here is the time it takes to move through the stages. Ideally we would invest to clear down backlogs at each stage of the process. But this is justice off the back of due process.

    What else would you suggest? I'm not close minded to other suggestions once they can be considered fair and transparent.


    Totally agree. A neighbour had a house trashed and told me the prtb were no use so we compared stories and he thought they should have just handed him a cheque lol
    He was left his house in a will I worked for everything I have maybe thats where my tenacity came from.


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    #45
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Success and Justice- are subjective though.

    If someone owed you 5,000- would you be happy to collect a tenner a week for ten years? I know I wouldn't. The hassle and paperwork- would be a freaking nightmare. It sounds like the poster was satisfied that he caused the tenant who deliberately set out to destroy his property- as much grief as possible. Extracting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth though- while it may be biblical- isn't fair or reasonable in my books- even if it does seem to suit some people?

    There has to be a better way of doing things.

    I take your point its not for everyone. But any man or woman can only say what they will do after it happens.
    To do nothing would have been more stress for me than going through the process if I remember it took over two years.
    I have closure now. I think the system is a disgrace and there is very little justice for lanlords but thats down to the law not prtb.
    I have nothing but good luck since it happened, I have wonderful tenants who never bother me . It even spurred me on to get another little property as many would have sold up after my experience but it drove me to do the opposite. Strange but true.


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    #46
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    CollyFlower wrote: »
    I can't see why anyone would become a independent LL, from what I've seen, read and heard it's a gamble for the sole landlord., the independent LL will can pay over 50% tax on the rental income, yet Reit and their ilk are paying only 12% tax on their income... So unfair.

    So they pay 12% more tax on the rental income than a private landlord? And as Lux inferred to, there are plenty of Private Landlords who don't pay what they should be. What exactly are you complaining about?


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    #47
    Corb_lund
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Corb_lund


    Lux23 wrote: »
    How many actually really pay 50%? My landlord certainly doesn't.

    I looked at renting my house before. I'm on higher tax band at around 60k so not like I'm making 150k a year and my estimated tax bill was far in excess of 50% it was farcically high.


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    #48
    ondafly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,162 ✭✭✭ondafly


    Lux23 wrote: »
    How many actually really pay 50%? My landlord certainly doesn't.

    If more crazy - if the Landlord doesn't live in Ireland ; the tennant is supposed to pay.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tenants-paying-rent-to-the-revenue-1.3149410


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    #49
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    ondafly wrote: »
    If more crazy - if the Landlord doesn't live in Ireland ; the tennant is supposed to pay.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tenants-paying-rent-to-the-revenue-1.3149410

    Its always been this way- and its not unique to the residential sector- anyone who buys a good or service from another person or company not located in Ireland- once it goes over a certain threshold- is supposed to deduct witholding tax and forward it to the Revenue Commissioners.

    The 20% that a tenant is supposed to deduct from their rent for the Revenue Commissioners- is a deduction from their gross rent- and not in addition to it.

    Renting a property in the private sector- is a business transaction- and really should be treated as such by everyone- half the problems in the sector are because landlords and tenants are not being professional towards one another.


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    #50
    utmbuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    there's no way of dodging the tax, revenue go to electric gas company's everything now when your caught so you end up with a bill for tens of thousands , a lean on your house cos you don't have 30grand in cash, credit ****ed

    rent a room is 12500 tax free build an extension with a door

    or invest in an reit, the amount of marketing telling tennents their rights they are ****en geniuses at screwing a land Lord

    I heard of one case tennant went to collector general landlord got done for 10 years tax as gas company gave 2 previous tennents

    landlord can't sell now, a bill for 78k along with the outstanding mortgage


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    #51
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    utmbuilder wrote: »

    rent a room is 12500 tax free build an extension with a door

    €14,000 for several years now


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    #52
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Caranica wrote: »
    €14,000 for several years now

    2017 budget actually (aka Oct 2016)

    Also point to note- its a gross 14,000- inclusive of absolutely everything- bill shares, internet, tv, heating, parking charges etc etc etc- you do not get to add anything onto the 14k.

    Also- you don't have to be the owner of the property to avail of the rent-a-room scheme- a qualified tenant, with the permission of their landlord, can licence a room to a third party under the rent-a-room scheme (which seems like a nice way to subsidise your rent- if the landlord agrees, and you have a spare bedroom..........


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    #53
    YakerK
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭YakerK


    The_Conductor wrote: »

    Also point to note- its a gross 14,000- inclusive of absolutely everything- bill shares, internet, tv, heating, parking charges etc etc etc- you do not get to add anything onto the 14k.

    That’s not the case, even splitting of bills for services provided by 3rd party are excluded.

    If the landlord provides a service e.g. cleaning or meals, then that would be included in the €14k.


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    #54
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    YakerK wrote: »
    That’s not the case, even splitting of bills for services provided by 3rd party are excluded.

    If the landlord provides a service e.g. cleaning or meals, then that would be included in the €14k.

    Thats what I said?
    Also point to note- its a gross 14,000- inclusive of absolutely everything- bill shares, internet, tv, heating, parking charges etc etc etc- you do not get to add anything onto the 14k.


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    #55
    YakerK
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭YakerK


    I'd read your post as saying that landlord had to include bill shares in the €14k allowance ("inclusive of absolutely everything"), i.e. if they rented two rooms at €6k each, but then passed on bills they'd be above €14k, which would make the whole amount taxable.

    For clarity, bill sharing is not counted as part of your €14k, nor is the receipt of the licencee's portion of the bills considered taxable income. If that's what you meant, apologises for misrepresenting!


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    #56
    Purple Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Purple Sheep


    YakerK wrote: »
    I'd read your post as saying that landlord had to include bill shares in the €14k allowance ("inclusive of absolutely everything"), i.e. if they rented two rooms at €6k each, but then passed on bills they'd be above €14k, which would make the whole amount taxable.

    For clarity, bill sharing is not counted as part of your €14k, nor is the receipt of the licencee's portion of the bills considered taxable income. If that's what you meant, apologises for misrepresenting!

    My understanding also was that the bills are included in that €14 000 limit, looking at citizens information:
    Currently, the total (gross) rent that you get, which includes sums that the tenant pays for food, utilities, laundry or similar goods and services, cannot exceed €14,000 in the tax year
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

    I guess you wouldn't get taxed on the bills in that case though, just on the rent you get even if it turns out to be under €14000 on its own. :confused:


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    #57
    YakerK
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭YakerK


    I'd noticed that there was conflicting information out there - Revenue's own guidance has no mention of bills, but to be sure I'd contacted Revenue to clarify this and they had confirmed to me that bill sharing was not counted when working out if your income was above/below €14k


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    #58
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Then the tenants will accuse the OP of not allowing them quiet enjoyment of their home. Better send it registered and if not accepted then do a hand delivery.
    Once it's signed and ready get the solicitor to organise a courier to deliver it to the address and you have a record of delivery from an independant party. The courier is the equivelant of the positie let them argue that.


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    #59
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    YakerK wrote: »
    I'd noticed that there was conflicting information out there - Revenue's own guidance has no mention of bills, but to be sure I'd contacted Revenue to clarify this and they had confirmed to me that bill sharing was not counted when working out if your income was above/below €14k

    Correct as you are not receiving the money for the bills the utility company are so it is not your income. There could be an argument that you are liable for the benefit of the standing charge (eg you are only paying half and your licensee is paying the other half) but I am just being pedantic.


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