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Are single sex schools the dream to teach in or is it just limited to all girls ?

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  • #32
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭Treppen


    shesty wrote: »
    I was in an all-girls convent secondary, and I wanted to be an engineer from about age 14.I felt when I got to college I had missed out a bit though - the lads had all done Applied Maths, Tech drawing and the like in school, and I never had the opportunity.There were 3 girls in our physics class and I was the only girl in the whole year to want to do engineering.That being said I made it through 4 years of the degree alright.

    That being said, I think I will most likely send my girls to a girl's secondary and my boy to a mixed, I think.I don't like the undercurrent in some boy's schools, that I have heard of.I admit first year engineering was a shock to me - the immaturity of 200+ 18 & 19 year old boys all in a lecture theatre together was eye-opening, having come from an all-girls school where the majority of staff treated you as an adult and classroom behaviour tended to reflect that at senior cycle (tended - not always).Sitting through lectures with lads flinging paper planes and balls of paper around, sniggering and making stupid noises just made me want to bang my head against a wall.It eased off when exams loomed but it was a complete pain the first few months.

    I remember talking to a neighbor's daughter about what she wanted to do after leaving cert... Architecture ! I don't know how she's getting on but she went to all girl's and never held a T-square before. She had a connection in the business so that probably helped.

    Out of interest, is it a level playing field in the Engineering world, or is there a boys club?


  • #33
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I once subbed for a week in an all girl primary school. Treated like a celebrity for the week. Seemingly I was the first male, apart from the caretaker, to have been in their staffroom in 23yrs. Found the attitude very strange. Treated like I was from Mars.

    Exactly the same here! I went to the staffroom once or twice and ended up eating in my car/classroom. Wasnt sad fo leave it. On the first day, the principal was showing me around and told me I was the third Male on staff. She then told me that the male toilets were out of use .... filled with cleaning supplies. I don't know if the situation changed, but school didn't do favourably in WSE as the girls had no male role models.


  • #34
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Ehh...sorry dragging the thread off-topic here now....I would say in 15 years in the civil engineering field I have not experienced any problems.Engineering is a funny one, you tend to be viewed almost as "the engineer" rather than man or woman, once you are decent at your job.There is however a low number of women, probably for traditional reasons - it is often viewed as "too difficult" by many - and then as people get older and want families, issues arise around maternity leave benefits and the like, no different to many other fields.It can be exarcebated by the fact that there is a small number of women in the field anyway, then throw in women all leaving due to wanting families or whatever, makes the pool even smaller.It can be hard to be say, the only female engineer on a team and to be working short weeks or running out early every day for family commitments, when the rest of a team are all men and generally do not work like that.Obviously that can be a problem anywhere, it just makes a small number of women in engineering even smaller.

    In my experience and from what I have heard though, it isn't really a profession known for discriminating against women.It is just traditionally very male-dominated, and it seems to be hard to attract women to it for other reasons around how it is perceived, not so much because there is a bias against women in it.It is an extremely versatile degree though, it is an entry way into many professions, as it is generally perceived to be one that trains you to problem-solve and think outside the box.Always a useful skill.


  • #35
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    Alex86Eire wrote: »
    I went to an all girls convent school myself and don't think I would send a child of mine to one.
    I'd be much happier if they went to a mixed school. Single sex girls schools can have very toxic environments and bullying can be rife (obviously school dependent - this is just my own experience).
    I would have less qualms in sending a boy to an all boys school.

    Teaching wise - the 'easiest' school I've taught in was an all girls convent school but I found the staff very clique-y. There was one man on a staff out of 40.
    This may be controversial but I find a good gender balance on a staff to be a lot more pleasant. My current school is about 60:40 which is great.

    In your opinion what makes these convent girls schools "easier" to teach in? I also find that, and to be honest im not exactly sure what it is. Sure there are some girls who need to be told to focus a bit more than others but the passive aggression definitley is not there. I think girls seem to give a lot of respect to male teachers, i have found that anyway. Its strange but if you say thank you to students in an all girls school on way out of classes almost 100% will say thank you too and everyday after that up to 90% would smile and say thank you leaving the class in a mixed school i found tat down around 40%. these little things i find leave your mental state in a lovely place when teaching up to 6 hour long classes a day.


  • #36
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    it is fascinating though the dynamic in different schools and most definitley shows that teachers in different schools are working under hugely contrasting conditions. I went to an all boys school from first to third year and 5th and 6th went to a mixed school. i was blown away by the difference in atmosphere, te biys school was about 700 the mixed school about 430.

    the aggression in the boys school was a bit unhealthy, you were constantly alert to physical intimidation of all sorts, fights at lunch time etc. when i went to the mixed school i couldnt get over the chilled out vibes. it seemed the girls made the lads a lot more sedate, there were never fights really at lunch time, you were allowed out down the town for lunch but again it was sedate,lads standing round trying to impress the girls by being oh so nice. however sport was particpated just for the laugh and a day out in the mixed school, no pride really involved. no after school practice or anything. there was little if any sport played at lunchtime. usually the cool kids off smoking the other less rebels sitting around on grass on good days with the girls as if they were at a festival, all very hippy ish but led to a lovely chilled atmosphere. i loved that school but didnt do great academically. i think i was a bit like a tourist in New York spent my two years looking around and smiling and kissing girls and feeling basically in an American high school movie, before i knew it the leaving cert was over and we were done. biggest regret is not repeating my leaving though i probably would need to repeat 5th and 6th.
    I would have loved every minute of the extra two years id say too.


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  • #37
    Alex86Eire
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭Alex86Eire


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    In your opinion what makes these convent girls schools "easier" to teach in? I also find that, and to be honest im not exactly sure what it is. Sure there are some girls who need to be told to focus a bit more than others but the passive aggression definitley is not there. I think girls seem to give a lot of respect to male teachers, i have found that anyway. Its strange but if you say thank you to students in an all girls school on way out of classes almost 100% will say thank you too and everyday after that up to 90% would smile and say thank you leaving the class in a mixed school i found tat down around 40%. these little things i find leave your mental state in a lovely place when teaching up to 6 hour long classes a day.

    Very little behavioural issues I suppose. I was in an all girls for my year of teaching practice and found it very straightforward. I've since taught in mixed and all boys and have encountered more behavioural issues in them. The girls all wanted to learn and were very exam focused. I didn't need to motivate them because they already were highly motivated.

    The behaviour of the boys I teach now is very good in general but I do find that a few of the older lads try and suss out how far they can push you. I am a young female which may have something to do with it. I never found this with girls.


  • #38
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Alex86Eire wrote: »
    Very little behavioural issues I suppose. I was in an all girls for my year of teaching practice and found it very straightforward. I've since taught in mixed and all boys and have encountered more behavioural issues in them. The girls all wanted to learn and were very exam focused. I didn't need to motivate them because they already were highly motivated.

    The behaviour of the boys I teach now is very good in general but I do find that a few of the older lads try and suss out how far they can push you. I am a young female which may have something to do with it. I never found this with girls.

    What I would look at here is management - if they are on the ball and students have a fear of them - the kids will be motivated and will be eager to learn.

    I've worked in a number of school settings but I will compare the boys schools. The first had a principal who was more interested in spying/bullying their staff that the boys were boisterous but were somewhat motivated. The second school which had a poor reputation a few years ago got a new principal and there were a few that would push the buttons as always but the students were highly motivated and a pleasure to teach. Principal and an excellent deputy presence in the corridor and an experienced senior management team made sure that the school was effective and you did the job you were paid to do - teach. I would go back to that school anyday. I loved the challenge!


  • #39
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    i have a feeling that one of the main reasons for some of these single sex schools being handy to teach in particularly girls schools is that about 60-70% of the students bypass their local school to go to tem, this is driven by parents who want better for thier cildren, for better or worse, so you ave a larger cohort of students who have parents taking an active interest in their childs education and some even pushing them on to do well. This is one of the biggest strengths to academic achievement in a school as well as usually being mannerly etc.

    However i would agree a huge amount of it is down to management. i was in a school which was fairly tough, mixed with a few students with home and bae ckround problems and management seemed genuinely afraid to intervene in some cases. I remember catching a few girls and boys smoking and told them they were going to be called out for this, one just rolled their eyes and said "we will ye", might as well have told me to f**k off. Reported to management nothing happened regarding the comment, principal just said he denied it and smiled and said what can you do.

    i was local too and made up my mind not to bother catching anyone again. dont think anything happened the smokers wither as it was let drag on a few days.


  • #40
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    i have a feeling that one of the main reasons for some of these single sex schools being handy to teach in particularly girls schools is that about 60-70% of the students bypass their local school to go to tem,

    .

    Not true. Lots of small towns in Ireland only have one school, a community school/college or perhaps two schools typically a convent and a CBS or similar.

    Girls on their own tend not to be disruptive and boisterous and easier to discipline, but bitchiness can be a factor in some schools. Go to a large city (parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway) and you will see a difference in single sex schools depending on their catchment.


  • #41
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Not true. Lots of small towns in Ireland only have one school, a community school/college or perhaps two schools typically a convent and a CBS or similar.

    Girls on their own tend not to be disruptive and boisterous and easier to discipline, but bitchiness can be a factor in some schools. Go to a large city (parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway) and you will see a difference in single sex schools depending on their catchment.

    yes the school im talking about are losing students from their own small town mixed community school, to two very acadmic all girls schools and an all boys school. I would say a good 25% of each 6th class from the towns primary school, bypass the secondary in the town.


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  • #42
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    yes the school im talking about are losing students from their own small town mixed community school, to two very acadmic all girls schools and an all boys school. I would say a good 25% of each 6th class from the towns primary school, bypass the secondary in the town.

    That's only one example. There are plenty of community schools which are thriving.


  • #43
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    id say its down to management in most schools is it? are most schools able to be saved with the right management?


  • #44
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    I think management is important but I'd always stress to new staff in my school for instance that you will be told for f off at some point. Not because of you or even anything you did but because of something happening in that kid's life. They will generally be very remorseful after, life just got the better of them. I think in some, more middle-class schools I've been in a decent code of behaviour and half decent management were enough to keep everything pretty positive. In an inner city school the kids will bring their issues with them, they can't help it so there are a lot of feelings circling in rooms. I try and insist on sticking with behavioural management terminology as opposed to discipline in this environment. You are helping the kids to learn to control their emotions and behavior in social environments, that means taking the high road, always giving second, third, even fourth chances. The student is allowed scream, you are not. I'm not sure whether single sex or mixed matters in these schools as the primary goal is to make them feel safe so they can learn. The best management in the world can't stop these flair ups. But a bad management in a school like that will lead to absolute chaos. A bad management in a nice middle class country school will be annoying but less likely to destroy anyone's future.


  • #45
    Dickie10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    its amazing the differences teachers suppose to be in same jobs face daily, totally different types of environments.


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