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Managment Companies

  • 01-12-2019 9:50pm
    #1
    Keller Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I have many, many question regarding management companies and how they operate. :confused: It would be super if anyone is able to help me out and provide any answers.

    Must the annual service charge budget be voted and agreed at each AGM? Or can the Directors agree a figure without the Members agreement? The MUD Act would say no, but the Memorandum of Association would imply otherwise. I would have thought the MUD Act takes precedence.

    Irrespective of the above, should details of the proposed service charge be provided in advance of the AGM?

    Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on how best to encourage people to pay? Has anyone come across a method of having two service charges e.g. one cost before a certain date and a higher cost after that date – this higher cost would be solely there to pay for the remuneration of any solicitor fees etc.

    What consequences are there, if any, if a member was not notified of an AGM?

    What consequences are there if an OMC failed to have an AGM within the last 15 months?

    Should the Management Agent be in attendance at the AGM?

    Must a Director retire after 3 years?

    How many members must agree for a Director to remain in place?

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read these! :)


Comments

  • #2
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    Keller Bear wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have many, many question regarding management companies and how they operate. :confused: It would be super if anyone is able to help me out and provide any answers.

    Must the annual service charge budget be voted and agreed at each AGM? Or can the Directors agree a figure without the Members agreement? The MUD Act would say no, but the Memorandum of Association would imply otherwise. I would have thought the MUD Act takes precedence.

    Irrespective of the above, should details of the proposed service charge be provided in advance of the AGM?

    Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on how best to encourage people to pay? Has anyone come across a method of having two service charges e.g. one cost before a certain date and a higher cost after that date – this higher cost would be solely there to pay for the remuneration of any solicitor fees etc.

    What consequences are there, if any, if a member was not notified of an AGM?

    What consequences are there if an OMC failed to have an AGM within the last 15 months?

    Should the Management Agent be in attendance at the AGM?

    Must a Director retire after 3 years?

    How many members must agree for a Director to remain in place?

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read these! :)

    I’d say you might want to enquire with a company law society who deals with management companies. Are you a member of a management company and trying to see how they work or involved in the running of one?

    Citizen info would have basic info on management companies worth checking out.


  • #3
    Apartment Owners Network
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2 ✭Apartment Owners Network


    The Housing Agency and the Apartment Owners' Network sites have a wealth of information, resources, FAQs, etc. on OMCs.


  • #4
    DublinCJM
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭DublinCJM


    I'll answer with what I think is correct having spent several years as a director of an OMC.
    Keller Bear wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have many, many question regarding management companies and how they operate. :confused: It would be super if anyone is able to help me out and provide any answers.

    Must the annual service charge budget be voted and agreed at each AGM? Or can the Directors agree a figure without the Members agreement? The MUD Act would say no, but the Memorandum of Association would imply otherwise. I would have thought the MUD Act takes precedence. OURS HAD TO BE AGREED BY THOSE IN ATTENDANCE AT THE AGM.

    Irrespective of the above, should details of the proposed service charge be provided in advance of the AGM? OURS WERE PROVIDED IN ADVANCE WITH THE NOTIFICATION OF THE AGM.

    Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on how best to encourage people to pay? Has anyone come across a method of having two service charges e.g. one cost before a certain date and a higher cost after that date – this higher cost would be solely there to pay for the remuneration of any solicitor fees etc. WE DIDN'T GIVE PARKING PERMITS TO THOSE WHO HAD NOT PAID THEIR SERVICE CHARGE. MOST WERE LANDLORDS, WHOSE TENANTS THEN GOT CLAMPED, SO THEY SOON PAID THEIR CHARGES.

    What consequences are there, if any, if a member was not notified of an AGM? DON'T KNOW.

    What consequences are there if an OMC failed to have an AGM within the last 15 months? NOT SURE, BUT I THINK THERE'S AN OBLIGATION TO HAVE AN AGM AND I THINK THE DIRECTORS NEED A QUARTERLY MEETING TOO TO COMPLY WITH COMPANY LAW.

    Should the Management Agent be in attendance at the AGM? I THINK SO. OURS ALWAYS WAS.

    Must a Director retire after 3 years? I THINK THAT'S LAW. WE HAD TO RESIGN, BUT IF NO NOMINATIONS FOR NEW DIRECTORS HAD BEEN MADE, THEN YOU COULD AUTOMATICALLY BE RE-ELECTED FOR ANOTHER 3 YEARS

    How many members must agree for a Director to remain in place? I THINK IF THERE'S MORE NOMINATIONS THAT DIRECTORS THEN IT'S A VOTE.

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read these! :)


  • #5
    bluelamp
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭bluelamp


    It's also common enough to put a code lock on the bin shed or bike shed if the block has one, and change the code every x amount of months and only provide the code to those who have paid management fees.


  • #6
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    In this situation now. There is a landlord that has a number of properties in the estate and has not paid services charges on any for years. The money owed is mounting up so making it hard to sell.
    Only if the buyers solicitor is good they will make sure the owner has fees outstanding paid. Some new owners refused to pay passed service fees but the fees are tied to the house and not the owner as far as I know. In the end the management company agreed to write off so the sinking fund is small due to this. This particular landlord turned up to an agm and said as he had not paid his fees he really should not be talking and spouted off why he as not paying his fees!! 20minutes later he was still talking. Money still not in and that was years ago.

    Management engaged in a solicitor that charged for letters being set out. In the deeds it says if fees are not paid they interest will be charged. It has not made a difference to that landlord that owns about 10 properties. The Management company cannot get the money from him. Fees are being paid only when the property is up for sale and he is forced to pay. He has tried to sell a few and had no bites so far so have put them back up for rent so no money in.


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  • #7
    bluelamp
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭bluelamp


    tvjunki wrote: »
    new owners refused to pay passed service fees but the fees are tied to the house and not the owner as far as I know.

    That's a failure on the part of the buyers solicitor to make sure that wasnt sorted - although I would imagine 99% of people would refuse to pay a previous owners unpaid management fees.

    I would think the only option there would be to either forgive the debt or go down the legal route with the previous owner.


  • #8
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,000 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    bluelamp wrote: »
    That's a failure on the part of the buyers solicitor to make sure that wasnt sorted - although I would imagine 99% of people would refuse to pay a previous owners unpaid management fees.

    I would think the only option there would be to either forgive the debt or go down the legal route with the previous owner.

    It's actually a management company failure. The documents required to facilitate the sale should not have been released to the owner without payment of outstanding fees.


  • #9
    Anjunadeep
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Anjunadeep


    Is there any 3rd party body that property owners can go to, if the property management company isn't doing its job?
    Sick to the death of kpm


  • #10
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Keller Bear wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have many, many question regarding management companies and how they operate. :confused: It would be super if anyone is able to help me out and provide any answers.

    Must the annual service charge budget be voted and agreed at each AGM? Or can the Directors agree a figure without the Members agreement? The MUD Act would say no, but the Memorandum of Association would imply otherwise. I would have thought the MUD Act takes precedence. We do

    Irrespective of the above, should details of the proposed service charge be provided in advance of the AGM? They can I suppose. They shouldn't jump much from year to year anyway.

    Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on how best to encourage people to pay? Has anyone come across a method of having two service charges e.g. one cost before a certain date and a higher cost after that date – this higher cost would be solely there to pay for the remuneration of any solicitor fees etc.

    Set up monthly DD, a number of reminder letters, each one more threatening, get in contact with solicitor and see what sum they are prepared to engage on and go to court.

    What consequences are there, if any, if a member was not notified of an AGM?
    None, if the OMC has delivered them it's the owner's problem.
    What consequences are there if an OMC failed to have an AGM within the last 15 months?
    There could be legal issues, talk to Accountant or solicitor.

    Should the Management Agent be in attendance at the AGM? No idea but I guess they could be proxies of an owner.

    Must a Director retire after 3 years? Not aware of that.

    How many members must agree for a Director to remain in place?
    Nominate, seconded, majority vote at AGM.
    Thanks very much for taking the time to read these! :)
    Some answers in there.


  • #11
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    bluelamp wrote: »
    That's a failure on the part of the buyers solicitor to make sure that wasnt sorted - although I would imagine 99% of people would refuse to pay a previous owners unpaid management fees.

    I would think the only option there would be to either forgive the debt or go down the legal route with the previous owner.
    Management company needs to hunt them down in court and get a lien to the property. Our own is mustard keen on that but we're good boys and girls!


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  • #12
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Anjunadeep wrote: »
    Is there any 3rd party body that property owners can go to, if the property management company isn't doing its job?
    Sick to the death of kpm

    Sounds like you're confusing an agent with the management company.

    Not having a go at you, and if I'm mistaken forgive me, but it never fails to flabbergast me how people can pay hundreds of thousands of euro to become part of a managed development and not even have a cursory grasp of how they operate.


  • #13
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Keller Bear wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have many, many question regarding management companies and how they operate. :confused: It would be super if anyone is able to help me out and provide any answers.

    Must the annual service charge budget be voted and agreed at each AGM? Or can the Directors agree a figure without the Members agreement? The MUD Act would say no, but the Memorandum of Association would imply otherwise. I would have thought the MUD Act takes precedence.

    AW - We always work out a budget with the agent and then present it to the members for vote at the AGM

    Irrespective of the above, should details of the proposed service charge be provided in advance of the AGM?

    AW - We don't. We just present it at the AGM

    Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on how best to encourage people to pay? Has anyone come across a method of having two service charges e.g. one cost before a certain date and a higher cost after that date – this higher cost would be solely there to pay for the remuneration of any solicitor fees etc.

    AW - we have brought in locked bin sheds and clamping at various stages to try and impel debtors to pay arrears as well as the usual legal proceedings

    What consequences are there, if any, if a member was not notified of an AGM?

    AW - it's never happened to my knowledge. We usually do a mail drop to ensure everybody gets notice of the AGM. Our average attendances are absolutely chronic. Most residents simply don't care about the running of the OMC - despite repeated attempts to make them engage - unless it's an EGM or something that might hit them in the pocket.

    What consequences are there if an OMC failed to have an AGM within the last 15 months?

    AW - I honestly have no idea. I was under the impression it had to be every 12 months which is what we - give or take a few weeks - try to adhere to

    Should the Management Agent be in attendance at the AGM?

    AW - Sure they don't have to but I think they should. Ours presents and runs the AGM on our behalf even though we will speak if required

    Must a Director retire after 3 years?

    AW - Wasn't aware of this. We put ourselves up for election every year. I would assume that most OMCs suffer from our problem - virtually nobody wants to do it so the same people are forced to keep putting themselves forward

    How many members must agree for a Director to remain in place?

    AW - Proposed, seconded, majority vote

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read these! :)


    Not an expert by any means but answered as best I could based on being a serving resident director of a OMC.


  • #14
    DublinCJM
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭DublinCJM


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Not an expert by any means but answered as best I could based on being a serving resident director of a OMC.

    Just on the retirement question. I think it's part of the MUD act that you must resign / step down as a director after 3 years, if nobody else is going forward, then you can just be re-elected for another 3 years.

    We were in the same boat as you, had the same board of 3 owners for about 8 or 9 years before I sold up and resigned.

    Same as you also, maybe about 4 or 5 owners each year turned up out of 51 units....

    Unless there was something that was going to cost them money, like mandatory works to fix fire stopping issues from dodgy building practises :D


  • #15
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    DublinCJM wrote: »
    Just on the retirement question. I think it's part of the MUD act that you must resign / step down as a director after 3 years, if nobody else is going forward, then you can just be re-elected for another 3 years.

    We were in the same boat as you, had the same board of 3 owners for about 8 or 9 years before I sold up and resigned.

    Same as you also, maybe about 4 or 5 owners each year turned up out of 51 units....

    Unless there was something that was going to cost them money, like mandatory works to fix fire stopping issues from dodgy building practises :D

    Try 2 directors and about 10-12 attendees from 4 times that amount of units :(


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