Do you believe in God?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It rather depends on the God being floated. For most day-to-day gods that actual people believe in, I really do actively believe they do not exist. Most are like someone calling you to say there is a live dinosaur stomping around your garden right now. No, I believe that that is not true.

True there are SOME gods you can actively disbelieve in because some claim about them is actively falsifiable or self contradictory.

Like a "Married Bachelor" can not exist by definition, there are claims about gods you can say straight off do not exist.

For example if the god of the bible is claimed to be all powerful but ALSO it is claimed he was rendered ineffectual by chariots of iron....

In a debate between Dan Barker and the unfortunately but aptly named Kyle Butt.... Barker lays out many of these Biblical "Married Bachelor" moments.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because all the atheists end up down in Hell?

Yes, with the litterers and people who work in marketing

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Agnosticism is identical in every practical way to atheism except that agnostics think they get to look down on atheists.

Or

Agnostics aren't arsed with the whole thing, either way.

Religion or the existence or non-existence of God plays no part in my life. It just doesn't feature.

Like cricket.

Unless it pops up, such as this thread, or something stupid like the Angelus.

Yeah ..he's a really nice guy.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence.

The RC church knew exactly what was going on in its ranks. In mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries and industrial schools, suffering and abuse was policy. In relation to sex abuse, the church knew who the abusers were but just moved them around, shielded them from justice and enabled them to find more and more victims. In many cases, abusers were promoted within the church and/or given a cushy number in the Vatican, safe from extradition.

The church is absolutely responsible for the crimes it facilitated and covered up.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That sort of argument flies in the face of our judicial system where we hold individuals responsible for their crimes, rather than maintaining that a group of people are responsible for criminal acts committed by individuals.

They are responsible when they conspire to pervert the course of justice.
There's also the question of moral responsibility as well as legal responsibility.

Well, it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone. That’s exactly my point. Your perspective is “Reds under the bed” style stuff - fearmongering, suspicion and paranoid nonsense. I’m not going to go so far as to say you’re delusional though, I just don’t share your perspective is all.

So why did the church protect these few individuals, instead of rooting them out? To protect their power and income, "scandal" had to be hushed up at all costs - the welfare of children, laundry inmates etc. simply didn't merit consideration.

Graces7 wrote: »

PS the thread asks if you believe in God, not if you believe in religion... two very different questions.

Who do you think wrote the prayer you quoted above?
Who taught it to you?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Isn't it interesting how so many believers who totally believe in the correct god (or gods) just happen to have been born in a place where they were taught about the correct gods as children?

Versus all those foreign people who believe in false gods, just unlucky to be born in the wrong place, I suppose.

Its amazing that none of us in Ireland going to mass grew up Muslim or none of the people in Pakistan going to the mosque grew up Catholic.

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

My personal theory is, Probably not.
But something started this whole universe thingy we are part of? or was it a cosmic accident?

The thing that started this whole universe thingy - how was that created?

Graces7 wrote: »

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth...

And in Jesus Christ His only Son, Our Lord...

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life.

Amen.

Any chance you could ask him why he gives life to some and then takes it back in the form of childhood cancer, where parents what their child wasting away?

Unfortunately Terry that's not what religions do. They proselytise and try to influence the laws which everyone must live under. Segregate kids at age 4 or 5 and start indoctrinating them.

The RCC tried to stop the last three referendums we passed. They say they are speaking to their "flock" but when they go on TV, radio, newspapers they are speaking to everyone. If they really want to speak to their "flock" then they have churches for that purpose.

At least these days, most politicians have the sense to ignore them.

As if that organisation has any moral authority left after what it did and what it's still doing.

Someone posted ealier that they respect priests, I respect the priests who had the courage to get up and leave that sham of an organisation. Not the ones who stay and by inaction endorse the abuse cover-up.

terrydel wrote: »

I personally don't but if it works for others and they are not harming anyone else in the name of whatever God they believe in or forcing or imposing those views on others, or thinking their views make them superior to others with different views, knock yourself out people. Whatever gets your thru the day, live and let live.

I agree, and would happily defend someone's right to be religious. My mother is 85 and her faith is important to her, so I stay off the subject. Even if she expresses the occasional doubt, I prefer to let it pass rather than pounce on it as an opportunity to "convert her". Being right isn't always the most important thing.

However...when someone in a scenario more similar to a debate quotes the bible as if that somehow constitutes a reasoned argument, or when a religious person hallucinates that they're some how more intelligent or moral because they've "found" the answer, I'm less inclined to tiptoe.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I don't watch it but anytime I did, I didn't see any religious symbolism in it. If Catholics continue to see it as a call to prayer then so what if it isn't? Pause and reflect isn't a bad thing for people to do. If people are getting their knickers in a twist because a bell rings for 1 minute twice a day, then they have little to worry them.

It absolutely is a call to prayer. Its name is a catholic call to prayer. Its pattern of bell-ringing is a catholic call to prayer.
RTE have taken out the religious iconography in recent years and let on it's about "reflection" etc. but a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

Would you be happy to have e.g. a muslim call to prayer on our state broadcaster on a daily basis?

This is promotion of a specific religion at a peak viewing time and is entirely inappropriate.

Anyone who wants to listen to bells ringing at a specific time can easily do that themselves, same as there are prayer apps etc. for muslims living here, where calls to prayer from mosques are generally not allowed.

Now if we could only get the bloody annoying church bells slienced!

Yes, the Angelus is a call to prayer to say the prayer called the Angelus...