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US Presidential Election 2020

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  • Registered Users Posts: 81,114 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    blackwave wrote: »
    The live debates would be interesting anyway, Dwayne is a very charismatic speaker to be fair and would be well able for Donald's crap.

    I hadn't even though about that. Johnson's experience at WWF/WWE would suit him well there. I don't think he has to stoop to calling Trump a hermaphrodite mind you, but he knows how to respond to Trump's debate style.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Joe Kennedy III seems to be somewhat in the Democratic centre, and capable of reaching out to blue-collar voters, but is he too establishment to be a contender?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Biden should have ran last time and is probably too old now, he would have won and honesty I could have gotten behind it. The Democrats need to cut out the identity politics / back away from socialism extremities that exist in their party and get back to a basic message that appeals to the middle class voter. The reason I was happy Trump won was a) Clinton is horribly corrupt and has gotten away with so much and b) most importantly, from a culture standpoint he's the most anti PC candidate there's ever been. When you go too far left a populist candidate like Trump becomes very appealing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    What sort of qualities do you want a democratic candidate to have SNIP?

    Racism, Bigotry, Dishonesty, Transphobia & Stupidity ?

    I know these where the big pluses for you regarding Trump.

    edit: forgot about him being a sexist pig. I know from your comments on Beyonce, that's a major plus aswell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    What sort of qualities do you want a democratic candidate to have hank?

    Racism, Bigotry, Dishonesty, Transphobia & Stupidity ?

    I know these where the big pluses for you regarding Trump.

    edit: forgot about him being a sexist pig. I know from your comments on Beyonce, that's a major plus aswell.

    I have no idea why you're referencing Beyonce. One time I quoted him and agreed with him saying "We don't need Jay'z or Beyonce" ( to fill an area ). I don't think you should use celebrities to garner votes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    You called Beyonce a whore ...for one reason. She played a Clinton election. Kinda goes over your head that Trump used music acts as well.

    Do you want that sort of unpleasantness in a democratic candidate ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    You called Beyonce a whore ...for one reason. She played a Clinton election. Kinda goes over your head that Trump used music acts as well.

    Do you want that sort of unpleasantness in a democratic candidate ?

    I don't remember calling Beyonce a whore, and if i did I meant it in the terms of her whoring for the Democratic party.

    Got a link?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,320 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The standout candidate for me even though he will be young is Joe Kennedy. He has the name recognition to have a head start and I think he would win it by a landslide.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    You called Beyonce a whore ...for one reason. She played a Clinton election. Kinda goes over your head that Trump used music acts as well.

    Do you want that sort of unpleasantness in a democratic candidate ?

    I don't remember calling Beyonce a whore, and if i did I meant it in the terms of her whoring for the Democratic party.

    Got a link?

    Your the gift that keeps giving SNIP. I'll give you that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,114 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The standout candidate for me even though he will be young is Joe Kennedy. He has the name recognition to have a head start and I think he would win it by a landslide.

    The Kennedys have good name recognition but they are also one of those dynasties I discussed earlier. Any Kennedy running would run carrying the baggage of every modern Kennedy, good and bad. The Kennedy family is well liked in Democratic strongholds but I honestly feel he would have a difficult run of it in swing states and the south. He has insider status too.

    There is also the bigger issue that he is quite young by presidential standards, who though legally can be as young as 35 (Joe is 37), most Presidents have been at least into their 40s or more. Joe Kennedy just hasn’t had enough time in his own spotlight, and he will get gnawed at for his youth, framed as a lack of qualifying life experience. He’s served better by hanging back and considering a 2024 run at the earliest, I don’t think he could necessarily unseat Trump, assuming Trump hasn’t been impeached or something, and if he lost a presidential campaign in his late 30s/early 40s the trend has clearly been that it hurts his chances of securing a successful bid later. Successfully elected presidents tend not to be those who run repeatedly (sorry Cruz, Giuliani, and Vermin Supreme).


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What sort of qualities do you want a democratic candidate to have SNIP?

    Racism, Bigotry, Dishonesty, Transphobia & Stupidity ?

    I know these where the big pluses for you regarding Trump.

    edit: forgot about him being a sexist pig. I know from your comments on Beyonce, that's a major plus aswell.
    You called Beyonce a whore ...for one reason. She played a Clinton election. Kinda goes over your head that Trump used music acts as well.

    Do you want that sort of unpleasantness in a democratic candidate ?
    Your the gift that keeps giving SNIP. I'll give you that.

    This isn't serious debate so cut it out please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    I'd like to see Avenatti, the Stormy Daniels lawyer throw his hat in the ring. He's already said, and he's right, that whoever goes up against Trump in 2020 has to be a bruiser who thrives on conflict and won't diminish or allow themselves to be labelled and belittled by Trump. Aside from Putin, Avenatti is about the only public figure I haven't heard Trump taking a pot shot at. The guy is a consummate media performer and is equally if not more adept at controlling the narrative via twitter than the president himself.

    I think he'd have a far better shot than any of these establishment figures and media personalities that Trump could easily knock down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    Agricola wrote: »
    I'd like to see Avenatti, the Stormy Daniels lawyer throw his hat in the ring. He's already said, and he's right, that whoever goes up against Trump in 2020 has to be a bruiser who thrives on conflict and won't diminish or allow themselves to be labelled and belittled by Trump. Aside from Putin, Avenatti is about the only public figure I haven't heard Trump taking a pot shot at. The guy is a consummate media performer and is equally if not more adept at controlling the narrative via twitter than the president himself.

    I think he'd have a far better shot than any of these establishment figures and media personalities that Trump could easily knock down.

    The problem with Avenatti (and any non-political candidate) is that we don't really know his political views on a lot of issues and of course he has zero experience and has never held office. I agree he seems very shrewd and strategic. He would be best suited as a campaign manager than an actual candidate


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Harris would be my top pick at the moment however I think it's pretty probable we'll see a bunch of entirely unexpected names towards the end of next year. Focus at moment is midterms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    He would be best suited as a campaign manager than an actual candidate

    Yep he definitely would be a very shrewd campaign manager but I just think a large section of America has gone down an "anti establishment, anti millionaire celebrity" rabbit hole and if the Dems put one of these people up against Trump in 2020, it will be grist to his mill. Maybe they need a showman to unseat a showman.

    I don't know Avenatti's politics but he seems a typical democrat, centre left type. I imagine for many voting in two years time, his politics will be secondary to seeing an end to this freakshow.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Misael Bewildered Sobriety


    Way too early to call yet, Mr Facepages has (had) a slight chance, and his marketing spend would be very little, having deep reach to 1bn+ people.
    No to mention huge wealth and vast metric profiling of the general public (globally). Likely too some deep AI-VR projects up his sleeve for later release.

    Think he was considering it previously, perhaps encouraged now as shares are tanking (20% wipeout in 1 day).
    Some analysts reckon FB/stock (as it stands) is in a death spiral, and at the end of a natural product lifecyle etc.

    However he is severely lacking in any personality/charisma, and privacy issues will be even more of an issue by 2020.

    Musk might be a better option, free space travel and hyperloop coast to coast would see him in.
    Highly creative, he is also now showing a similar Tw' style to Donald, the new normal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Way too early to call yet, Mr Facepages has (had) a slight chance, and his marketing spend would be very little, having deep reach to 1bn+ people.
    No to mention huge wealth and vast metric profiling of the general public (globally). Likely too some deep AI-VR projects up his sleeve for later release.

    Think he was considering it previously, perhaps encouraged now as shares are tanking (20% wipeout in 1 day).
    Some analysts reckon FB/stock (as it stands) is in a death spiral, and at the end of a natural product lifecyle etc.

    However is severely lacking in any charisma, and privacy issues will be even more of an issue by 2020.

    Musk might be a better option, free space travel and hyperloop coast to coast would see it.
    Highly creative, he is also now showing a similar Tw' style to Donald, the new normal.

    Musk was born in South Africa so he can't run(thankfully not tbh). Zuckerberg killed any chance of himself running given all his scandals as of late.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Misael Bewildered Sobriety


    batgoat wrote: »
    Musk was born in South Africa so he can't run(thankfully not tbh). Zuckerberg killed any chance of himself running given all his scandals as of late.

    Didn't prevent HC, and that small matter of a missing email server. :pac:

    Indeed unless Zuckerberg re-invents himself as a Gates Foundation type, up to his arms in 'chardy work' he currently has a limited chance.

    Musk would've been a better option, more practical, yet outside of the box solution driven.

    Afterall, if he starts to get people in e-cars, 1200kmph pheunnamic vacum tube transport systems, and space flight, what else can he do?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Didn't prevent HC, and that small matter of a missing email server. :pac:

    Indeed unless Zuckerberg re-invents himself as a Gates Foundation type, up to his arms in 'chardy work' he currently has a limited chance.

    Musk would've been a better option, more practical, yet outside of the box solution driven.

    Afterall, if he starts to get people in e-cars, 1200kmph pheunnamic vacum tube transport systems, and space flight, what else can he do?

    Don't particularly want to go down that line of discussion but pretty comfortable in fact Zuckerberg won't run. Musk in technology does not mean he's a capable politician. I personally don't think anyone with zero political experience should run.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Misael Bewildered Sobriety


    batgoat wrote: »
    Don't particularly want to go down that line of discussion but pretty comfortable in fact Zuckerberg won't run. Musk in technology does not mean he's a capable politician. I personally don't think anyone with zero political experience should run.

    That's what everyone thought about DT when he was 125/1.

    You should read the old thread called Trump POTUS 25/1 from 2016. One mad lad said he spent the day driving around bookies wads at for HC @1.2 he was so sure of her win.

    On actual election night I got some Trump at 9/1. Expect the unexpected.

    If Musk is unable due to place of birth, he's out. Zuckerberg will only not run if he chooses not to, and if FB shares collapse, he'll need a new hobby. Oprah said she won't, but it only takes 1second to have a change of mind.

    A non-politican can be a breath of fresh air in many cases, rather than a default option of wives of former presidents. Wasn't Barry a Chicago law lecturer or something before running?

    Again all too early to discuss, best to waiting until mid 2019.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Not just here, but seen it elsewhere too and just can't work out the repeated mention of Zuckerberg as a political candidate. The whole thing seems patently absurd. He has no credentials and AFAIK no outspoken political beliefs that might mark him for future political activity. Most crucially though, he has a personality that'd make Ted Cruz appear charismatic and personable. Zuckerberg is a charisma vacuum.

    Trump tapped into a resting discontentment with the political establishment, the coast-inland, urban-rural divide already bisecting America; a discontentment that then slowly translated into a sober realisation that electing someone neither experienced or interested in even the most basic of political norms can backfire spectacularly. I'd be a little surprised if voters went back to that particular well of the Stunt Candidate. President Trump is the Trickle-down theory finally mutating into the swollen behemoth already lurking in the wings: the lingering belief that the bigshot Tycoon-CEO would run a country better than those wasteful Political Elites (parking the cognitive dissonance over the fact Trump was not only a chaotic and intermittently disastrous business leader - but one of those very wealthy, coastal Elites supposedly being punished in 2016)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,357 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Not just here, but seen it elsewhere too and just can't work out the repeated mention of Zuckerberg as a political candidate. The whole thing seems patently absurd. He has no credentials and AFAIK no outspoken political beliefs that might mark him for future political activity. Most crucially though, he has a personality that'd make Ted Cruz appear charismatic and personable. Zuckerberg is a charisma vacuum.

    Trump tapped into a resting discontentment with the political establishment, the coast-inland, urban-rural divide already bisecting America; a discontentment that then slowly translated into a sober realisation that electing someone neither experienced or interested in even the most basic of political norms can backfire spectacularly. I'd be a little surprised if voters went back to that particular well of the Stunt Candidate. President Trump is the Trickle-down theory finally mutating into the swollen behemoth already lurking in the wings: the lingering belief that the bigshot Tycoon-CEO would run a country better than those wasteful Political Elites (parking the cognitive dissonance over the fact Trump was not only a chaotic and intermittently disastrous business leader - but one of those very wealthy, coastal Elites supposedly being punished in 2016)

    Think of it this way. If an Obama, Bill Clinton or GW Bush were found and ran against Trump in 2020, how would they do?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Misael Bewildered Sobriety


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Not just here, but seen it elsewhere too and just can't work out the repeated mention of Zuckerberg as a political candidate. The whole thing seems patently absurd. He has no credentials and AFAIK no outspoken political beliefs that might mark him for future political activity. Most crucially though, he has a personality that'd make Ted Cruz appear charismatic and personable. Zuckerberg is a charisma vacuum.

    Agree on this, very dull. However he is very much goal orientated:

    2009 - wear a tie everyday (wtf?)
    2010 - learn Chinese
    2011 - only eat animals he kills himself (wtf?)
    2012 - code everyday
    2013 - meet someone everday who's not on fb (hello there!)
    2014 - write a thanks note everyday
    2015 - read a new book every 2wks
    2016 - code a new AI assistant
    2017 - Visit all 50 states, meet community leaders
    2018 - 'fix' facebook
    2019?
    2020? - Will become 36, thus allowed to run for POTUS

    Has also recently hired a load of political goons (officials and ex-campaign managers) to run his foundation. He also gave away stocks/shares of fb (a new stock class), but is still in full control of fb - handy that if you were to, say 'resign due to aquiring a goverment position'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    batgoat wrote: »
    Harris would be my top pick at the moment however I think it's pretty probable we'll see a bunch of entirely unexpected names towards the end of next year. Focus at moment is midterms.

    Ya an awful lot will depend on how the so called new "progressives" preform in the mid terms presuming they actually run a decent number of them. And even then simply winning solidly democratic seats will not be enough they will have to flip and preform well in swing seats presuming they even get the nominations for those seats, and of they do they will not have quite the same reception as in solid Democrat areas in fact some polls suggest they could have quite a hostil reception.

    All that said if they do well then the candidates for 2020 will surly be more reflective of that grouping.


  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭O'Neill


    Surprised at the low number for Bernie to be honest


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    Elizabeth Warren is a fine Senator. I watched her lectures on the middle-class from 2008 before I knew who she was.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

    She just understands exactly where the US is going wrong, ripping off the middle classes, and is the very one who would actually help them.

    Of course she won't be elected, but she is the only person who can reform America to grant universal health care and to grant free education.

    Corporate America will hate her, hence any efforts to elect her will be thwarted, but the irony is because she understands exactly what is happening in the US, she will be nulled at the first hurdle.

    Her lecture on YouTube lasts 57 minutes. Within 10 minutes, you will understand what she is trying to rectify. Sadly 10 minutes is 9.5 minutes more than voters have.

    I will tell you this: if Elizabeth Warren was President, life would be a lot better for the vast majority of Americans.

    PS: If you live in Dublin with your partner, are both working, and wondering why you are living hand-to-mouth, watch the link above. It explains everything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    O'Neill wrote: »
    Surprised at the low number for Bernie to be honest

    Not when you consider his age.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Elizabeth Warren is a fine Senator.

    Trump ( if he runs ) will rip her apart. Someone "strong" and articulate like Harris would be a much better choice imo.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Overheal makes a reasonable point on a primary challenge. It is not beyond possibility that a different person will be running against the Democrat. There is precedent, President Pierce was not nominated for a second term by his own party, granted, in the 19th Century, but as we all know, in Trump USA, nothing can be taken for granted. Then again, I don’t believe that the Ds should run on “who can beat Trump” but “who will win the most EC Votes, no matter the opponent”

    There is certainly an argument that Harris will be the D nominee, she is very popular with the folks who will select the nominee. However, she is also a San Francisco liberal, such as Pelosi. We have evidence from recent special elections that success is coming from candidates who are disassociating themselves from the coastal democrats, meaning that there is an inherent uphill battle for Harris in the various swing states. They should be nominating a Democrat from a more centrally viewed State. It’s not as if Democrats don’t exist in Montana, Pennsylvania, Colorado or the like, but the D party is beholden to the coastal states for their election funding. To that end, the Ds have an internal discongruence which inhibits them. Absolutely not beyond the ability to surmount, but a handicap nevertheless.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,930 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    As some have already stated they need someone who will appeal to the swing States rather than the Democratic strongholds of MA or CA

    Warren is comfortable in liberal MA, Harris in CA, but take them out of there and they lose a lot of their appeal.

    The American voting population remains predominalty white, straight, law abiding and christian with a small c.

    Appleal to others at the expense of the above and they are on a hiding to nowhere


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