Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

noodler · 31-01-2019 10:08pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

If you read the thread it has been said numerous times that average nurse pay is not 57k. Nurses have not accepted the recent PSSA because it does not address the staff retention problem .
Also there are only a certain amount of promotional jobs around, and less so around the country.

I've read nothing of the sort.

Some people don't want to accept allowances but tis sourced from the people who actually pay the salaries.

Goldengirl · 31-01-2019 10:08pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Aside from bitter posts its the sheer illogicality of some of it, the poster will want top class care for their child, parents, family members top class midwifery for themselves or their partner but still say F..them.

Yes, " when I was in Melbourne/ Toronto/ Chicago the nursing care was so much better" brigade...Nurses in those countries are paid vastly better, their qualifications are recognised and respected, and , crucially, staff patient ratios are two to three times better than in Ireland.

noodler · 31-01-2019 10:09pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So should we discriminate pay based on whether someone is in a relationship or not?

A single nurse is 100% not going to rent a room for €500 a month anywhere near Dublin.

Why?

Its absolutely possible, you'll get a nice double on for 650-700 too.

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:09pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So should we discriminate pay based on whether someone is in a relationship or not?

A single nurse is 100% not going to rent a room for €500 a month anywhere near Dublin.

Well don’t start saying a nurse has to pay the average rent of 1300 a month.

It’s complete fabrication.

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 10:10pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You are wilfully choosing to ignore the fact that it seems that by the INMO's own take on it that many were going in to nursing because of the opportunity it afforded them to travel.

Lots of jobs give you the ability to travel.
Teaching, engineering, languages, business.

Funny how none of these have had a decade of severe staff shortages at every level across the entire country.

Almost as if travel may only be a small factor in staff shortages, compared to the larger elements people are quick to ignore, namely cripplingly bad conditions, poor pay compared to the work done, severe stress, long hours, alternating weeks of day and night shifts and the plethora of reasons given on this thread.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Well don’t start saying a nurse has to pay the average rent of 1300 a month.

It’s complete fabrication.

So it's ok for you to fabricate number out your arse, (like the 100k education) but no one else can do it.. :rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:10pm

hawkelady wrote: »

What a bitter , bitter post .... amazing me how sour that comes across.
Let’s hope the nurses leave you a while when , one day , you are laying in a ward in need of pain relief. You might reflect on your words while you wait on those nurses to give you the pills

Like a lot of jobs in this country I’m thankful people do and they get paid for.

That’s life.

Why do they deserve more treatment than the Garda and fire brigade?

Or people who fix the broken machines in hospital?????

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:12pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Lots of jobs give you the ability to travel.
Teaching, engineering, languages, business.

Funny how none of these have had a decade of severe staff shortages at every level across the entire country.

Almost as if travel may only be a small factor in staff shortages, compared to the larger elements people are quick to ignore, namely cripplingly bad conditions, poor pay compared to the work done, severe stress, long hours, alternating weeks of day and night shifts and the plethora of reasons given on this thread.

All of the above I can relate to been self employed.

Who’s gonna come rescue me???

Miike · 31-01-2019 10:18pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You are wilfully choosing to ignore the fact that it seems that by the INMO's own take on it that many were going in to nursing because of the opportunity it afforded them to travel.

I choose to ignore it when it's 15 years old, yes. When it was published on the turn of the nursing degree program from a 'vocation' and 4 years after P2000. So yes, undoubtedly I willfully choose to ignore it. If you're so dead set on the INMO being right, how come you don't support them saying nurses are underpaid currently? Is it because it doesn't suit your current rhetoric?

Also,
Are you positing that an article wrote when the current iteration of standard applicant 1st year nurses were 2 or 3 years old holds water and represents them as of today? :eek:

Tell me how wrote: »

On your last point, would you like all those who disagree with the 12% claim to leave the thread so the experts can stay and discuss and then come to the opinion that the pay raise is warranted and everyone agrees with them?

No, I would like people to educate them selves on a topic before they try to pass comment on it and appear informed while doing so.

I'm entirely open to logical debate but at least make the effort to have a cursory understanding on the material before you engage in debate on it.

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:21pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Lots of jobs give you the ability to travel.
Teaching, engineering, languages, business.

Funny how none of these have had a decade of severe staff shortages at every level across the entire country.

Almost as if travel may only be a small factor in staff shortages, compared to the larger elements people are quick to ignore, namely cripplingly bad conditions, poor pay compared to the work done, severe stress, long hours, alternating weeks of day and night shifts and the plethora of reasons given on this thread.

So it's ok for you to fabricate number out your arse, (like the 100k education) but no one else can do it.. :rolleyes:

5 year degree.

How much do you think it costs per person normally without been subsidized.

I’ll give you a hint, think America.

Goldengirl · 31-01-2019 10:22pm

salonfire wrote: »

Nobody is arguing against improving the work conditions.

Pay rises does not equate to better work conditions.

Maybe not in some jobs that have difficulty attracting people to the profession. Nursing is an interesting satisfying job, if the conditions are right , which in some countries they are.
Not here though because it is retention that is the issue , so the main working condition nurses complain about is being understaffed and having to work extra long stressful shifts because of that understaffing. Are you not keeping up with this debate? Noone is complaining about the heating or the size of their desk here!

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 10:25pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

All of the above I can relate to been self employed.

Who’s gonna come rescue me???

Well you can only blame yourself for that then surely?

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

5 year degree.

How much do you think it costs per person normally without been subsidized.

I’ll give you a hint, think America.

Why don't you tell me, and provide a link to back it up? Otherwise you're talking out your arse.

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:27pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Well you can only blame yourself for that then surely?

Well the nurses can only blame themselves for entering into a profession they knew everything about including pay conditions?

Miike · 31-01-2019 10:27pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

5 year degree.

How much do you think it costs per person normally without been subsidized.

I’ll give you a hint, think America.

So your problem is with the Free Fees initiative but the nurses are the problem. Fúckin nurses at it again :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:29pm

Miike wrote: »

So your problem is with the Free Fees initiative but the nurses are the problem. Fúckin nurses at it again :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Nurses are completing degrees here at the expense of the tax payer and swanning off to oz and New Zealand.

They should be made stay for a few years and give back to the tax payer.

Goldengirl · 31-01-2019 10:30pm

noodler wrote: »

Alot of new entrants are getting an extra 3k or so on top of their increment and PSSA pay rise.

No. Pay restoration for new entrants, not pay rise.

Miike · 31-01-2019 10:30pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nurses are completing degrees here at the expense of the tax payer and swanning off to oz and New Zealand.

They should be made stay for a few years and give back to the tax payer.

So is every other graduate under the free fees initiative. Do you understand the system operated in this country, at all?

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:34pm

Miike wrote: »

So is every other graduate under the free fees initiative. Do you understand the system operated in this country, at all?

And I think it’s time for change, don’t you?

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2016/07/18/paying-the-price-for-free-education/

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 10:35pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Well the nurses can only blame themselves for entering into a profession they knew everything about including pay conditions?

And how in your eyes does the government solve the problem of a nursing shortage with that kind of attitude?

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nurses are completing degrees here at the expense of the tax payer and swanning off to oz and New Zealand.

They should be made stay for a few years and give back to the tax payer.

Never gonna happen. Should we do the same for everyone who get a degree and a trade?

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And I think it’s time for change, don’t you?

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2016/07/18/paying-the-price-for-free-education/

Nope. I'm quite happy living in a country of skilled graduates, and not some backwards place like the US where every grad is saddled with huge student debt, which BTW is a huge crisis over there.

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:35pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Well you can only blame yourself for that then surely?

Why don't you tell me, and provide a link to back it up? Otherwise you're talking out your arse.

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2016/07/18/paying-the-price-for-free-education/

“You might not know much about the HEA. It has three main jobs. It disburses about €1 billion in funding to the higher education institutions of this State”

bcklschaps · 31-01-2019 10:36pm

Back in the day Civil servants (including Members of Parliament/Ministers etc.) were very well looked after (Salary + extras) in Ireland compared to Civil Servants in other countries...is that no longer the case ?

I think the example of Nurses going to the Middle East or Austrailia for big salaries etc. is fallacious....these are private sector contracts and do not come wth the host of extras that working for the Irish state gives. If I am a Civil Engineer working for the state here I do NOT expect the same Salary as I would if I was working in an Austrailian Lithium Mine.

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:37pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

And how in your eyes does the government solve the problem of a nursing shortage with that kind of attitude?

Never gonna happen. Should we do the same for everyone who get a degree and a trade?

We jave the highest nurses ratio in the OECD.

Yes I know crazy for me to suggest that.

But it’s true, if you want a link I’ll give it.

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 10:37pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2016/07/18/paying-the-price-for-free-education/

“You might not know much about the HEA. It has three main jobs. It disburses about €1 billion in funding to the higher education institutions of this State”

I know a lot about it. How much does it cost to train a nurse in Ireland?

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We jave the highest nurses ratio in the OECD.

Yes I know crazy for me to suggest that.

But it’s true, if you want a link I’ll give it.

Is that a link to the OECD report that's bollocks?

Wheeliebin30 · 31-01-2019 10:39pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

And how in your eyes does the government solve the problem of a nursing shortage with that kind of attitude?

Never gonna happen. Should we do the same for everyone who get a degree and a trade?

Nope. I'm quite happy living in a country of skilled graduates, and not some backwards place like the US where every grad is saddled with huge student debt, which BTW is a huge crisis over there.

So we should subsidize nurses training then once they finish they get to fly off into the sun???

jay0109 · 31-01-2019 10:39pm

Goldengirl wrote: »

No. Pay restoration for new entrants, not pay rise.

Ah, Pay Restoration. Back to 2008 when the country went bankrupt and had to be bailed out.
The good old days

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 10:41pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So we should subsidize nurses training then once they finish they get to fly off into the sun???

Should we stop subsidizing everyones education on the off-chance they leave?
From creche upwards?

Inspector Coptoor · 31-01-2019 10:42pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Ah, Pay Restoration. Back to 2008 when the country went bankrupt and had to be bailed out.
The good old days

Which had NOTHING to do with nurses or other public sector workers and all to do with bankers and politicians and regulators who let them lend €9 for every €1 on deposit and then let them just make up figures on a screen.

wrangler · 31-01-2019 10:43pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Ah, Pay Restoration. Back to 2008 when the country went bankrupt and had to be bailed out.
The good old days

Shure we might as well try bankrupt it again, put future generations into even more debt, we owe it to our children

Goldengirl · 31-01-2019 10:43pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Repost from yesterday.

Of course it is one of the reasons , duh...why would they want to spend the best years of their lives here in the rain, with yellowpack pay and conditions when they can be surfing in Bondi, and working with a 1 to 4 maximum staff patient ratio!
But normally people return after a year or two, with a dunton, a great outlook and buckets of valuable experience. But not in the last 10 years. They are staying there and settling.
So the cyclical refreshing of new returnees is not happening, and we are all getting more stressed and burnt out here. Hence senior staff nurses ,leaving early, either on early retirement ( the lucky ones) or with injuries , or just leaving full stop.

Miike · 31-01-2019 10:44pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Ah, Pay Restoration. Back to 2008 when the country went bankrupt and had to be bailed out.
The good old days

Reversing austerity measures introduced under FEMPI. I think it's important the correct terminology is used to describe these "pay increases" people are on about.

Miike · 31-01-2019 10:46pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We jave the highest nurses ratio in the OECD.

Yes I know crazy for me to suggest that.

But it’s true, if you want a link I’ll give it.

I'd love if you would.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And I think it’s time for change, don’t you?
http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2016/07/18/paying-the-price-for-free-education/

Reiterating this:

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Nope. I'm quite happy living in a country of skilled graduates, and not some backwards place like the US where every grad is saddled with huge student debt, which BTW is a huge crisis over there.

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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