Anti-vaxxers

Bobeagleburger · 25-08-2017 10:58pm

Social media is a breeding ground for these lunatics spreading their hear say and lies. Ignorant people then believing it

ancapailldorcha · 25-08-2017 11:07pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a matter of reading papers. There's certainly medics who knowingly prescribe useless antibiotics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11042482/Nearly-half-of-GPs-admit-prescribing-useless-antibiotics.html

It says fairly early on that it's to satisfy patients who insist on being given some sort of medication.

VinLieger · 25-08-2017 11:14pm

arayess wrote: »

It's kinda worrying that you think that....further worrying is your implication that the average person can;'t challenge medical opinion because they don't have the degree etc..
medical opinion isn't infallible at all.

Exvept you kinda need to have some kind of real medical knowledge to challenge medical opinion the makey up anti vaxxer fake science garbage doesnt count.

Its kind of worrying you cant aee that

ancapailldorcha · 25-08-2017 11:19pm

arayess wrote: »

It's kinda worrying that you think that....further worrying is your implication that the average person can;'t challenge medical opinion because they don't have the degree etc..
medical opinion isn't infallible at all.

Challenging medical opinion isn't an issue at all. Anti-vaxxers don't do that though. They just dismiss it outright so they can satisfy their inner crusaders to feed their perverse narcissism. They'll dismiss vaccines as means for Big Pharma to make profit while warmly embracing Dr. Andrew Wakefield who has only their best interests at heart despite living in a lavish mansion in Texas and who enjoys the support of the most powerful man in the world.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-08-2017 11:28pm

I know people who have lost most of their hearing because of preventable diseases, and another who lost their sight. I've had measles. It wasn't pleasant.

The difference between a cold and flu is that with proper flu at some point the thought that you might not make it will cross your mind.

The only possible times it could ever be safer not to vaccinate is when there is no threat or when the herd immunity protects you.

In Europe neither conditions apply any more.

Even worse there are some diseases that could be eradicated forever if one generation vaccinated. We were that close to wiping out polio, at best it'll take years more.

[Deleted User] · 25-08-2017 11:38pm

mezzz wrote: »

i was anti-vaxxer myself,

but when my daughter was born i decided to trust the hospital,
worked out well so far but if knew then what i know now i would have stuck with anti-vax

So you were against the science...but used the science...and the science worked out...but next time you're definitely against the science.

This needs a lot more explanation...because otherwise it runs against every idea of logic and rationality...

steddyeddy · 25-08-2017 11:58pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It says fairly early on that it's to satisfy patients who insist on being given some sort of medication.

But who cares what they insist on? It's too serious a problem to give into what patients want. Give them sugar pills if that's the case.

GritBiscuit · 26-08-2017 12:00am

What gets me on these FB anti-vax articles is the comments sections. In response to questions re if they're happy for their kid to be fighting off mumps, german-measles, rubella, small-pox, etc, etc. Anti-vaxxers will often answer no - and argue the odds against their kid catching such a disease...essentially relying on herd immunity and everyone else puting THEIR kids at whatever risks anti-vaxxers refuse to entertain to ensure their kid doesn't come into contact with these hideous diseases.

I have a sneaking suspicion if everyone ditched vaccinations tomorrow and the pediatric mortality rate was to sky-rocket thanks to whopping cough, polio and diphtheria making a huge resurgence, these anti-vaxxers would start chanting a different tune. It's just the epitome of self-interest.

ancapailldorcha · 26-08-2017 12:01am

steddyeddy wrote: »

But who cares what they insist on? It's too serious a problem to give into what patients want. Give thwm sugar pills if that's the case.

What an absurd thing to say. People have a right to know what's going into their bodies and they pay for GP appointments, meaning that the GP has a responsibility to them.

steddyeddy · 26-08-2017 12:38am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

What an absurd thing to say. People have a right to know what's going into their bodies and they pay for GP appointments, meaning that the GP has a responsibility to them.

Absurd as opposed to giving patients medication they don't need because they ask for it?

steddyeddy · 26-08-2017 12:45am

I might seem like I'm targetting doctors, but I think both the public and the experts have a role in vaccinations and antibiotic resistance.

Hellywelly · 26-08-2017 12:56am

My son caught whooping cough despite being vaccinated. Doctor said this can happen & that he had a mild dose of it. He was frighteningly sick with it. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if he had gotten a not so mild dose and after seeing and hearing how awful it is as a disease I can't comprehend anyone not vaccinating their child against it.
I'm alll for choice but not when ill informed decisions can compromise public health.

Mardy Bum · 26-08-2017 1:02am

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."

Anti vaccination advocates are victims of poor educations. The ultimate result being profound ignorance.

They seem to be linked with pro life groups in Ireland ironically.

mikeecho · 26-08-2017 1:02am

I know a few anti vaxers, the same few have views on Monsanto /coca cola etc

A few of them have what I consider poor levels of education, ie home schooled (their parents were hippies)

The others. ... I honestly believe that they have either mental deficiencies or are easily lead by the fantastic.

steddyeddy · 26-08-2017 1:08am

Mardy Bum wrote: »

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."

Anti vaccination advocates are victims of poor educations. The ultimate result being profound ignorance.

They seem to be linked with pro life groups in Ireland ironically.

I wish that were the case. Andrew Wakefield, privately educated, medically trained but thick as two short planks is behind the anti-vaccination movement. I would put it down to stupidity rather than education.

Canis Lupus · 26-08-2017 3:58am

Down with vaccines!

Junkyard Tom · 26-08-2017 4:47am

I refuse to have my dogs vaccinated because I don't want them to be autistic.

FACT.

arayess · 26-08-2017 9:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on, they are in a far better position to process and understand the information about the research and implications than the average Google expert.

It's kinda worrying that you don't appreciate that. Further worrying is that you equate the abilities of both. Expertise acquire by Google with no ability to really understand the information is incredibly fallible.

are they?
They get their degree spend a few years jobbing about and maybe upskill.
After that unless you are driven there is no obligation for refreshing your knowledge.
They consult the latest edition of MIMS to determine the medication and "next patient!"

Oddly you leave out the fact that some of the initial sources of the anti vax arguments found on google is made by well ....other doctors
They may be quacks or not....but they are doctors some of them with degrees and qualification galore...

VinLieger wrote: »

Exvept you kinda need to have some kind of real medical knowledge to challenge medical opinion the makey up anti vaxxer fake science garbage doesnt count.

Its kind of worrying you cant aee that

This isn't true. There is some makey up anti vax stuff by blow hards I'll grant you that. But equally you have many people with no science background defending vaccinations to the hilt raging online about anti vaxxers and in reality they themselves haven't a rashers...

sometimes common sense should prevail - take for example.
The bird flu vaccinate that was issues out.. I had an opinion that it was developed and tested in too short a space of time.
Medical opinion told me it was safe. But how do they know? How does the people in the school telling me it's safe know? They are only getting teh details of other...repeating the mantra. Sometimes this mantra comes directly from the manufacturers themselves...like ffs.
I had doubts.....out of good conscience I refused permission for my son to get it.

sometimes keeping your eyes open can serve you well

btw i'm not anti-vaxx Im a skeptic moreso.
my son has had most vaccinations

I am wary of the whole process and the demand no to over ride consent and parental consent is very worrying indeed.
It makes me question it more.

[Deleted User] · 26-08-2017 9:26am

arayess wrote: »

are they?
They get their degree spend a few years jobbing about and maybe upskill.
After that unless you are driven there is no obligation for refreshing your knowledge.
They consult the latest edition of MIMS to determine the medication and "next patient!"

Well don't rely on ignorance and stereotyping anyway. Obviously you don't know anyone who has gone to med school and qualified as a GP, if you think it's just "a degree and a bit of jobbing and upskilling".

Again, your inability to grasp why doctors, even if they don't spend years researching vaccinations, but are simply in a better position to assess and process the information, is remarkable.

branie2 · 26-08-2017 9:27am

I was vaccinated as a child, and I came out fine.

arayess · 26-08-2017 9:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well don't rely on ignorance and stereotyping anyway. Obviously you don't know anyone who has gone to med school and qualified as a GP, if you think it's just "a degree and a bit of jobbing and upskilling".

Again, your inability to grasp why doctors, even if they don't spend years researching vaccinations, but are simply in a better position to assess and process the information, is remarkable.

oddly i do. I suggest your are talking out your hole.
given the fact I referenced "mims" might be an indicator that I do know a little. you think?

unless they are involved in that area research they are just taking the offical line , they are reading the same sh8te we all are.
If you actually read what I wrote ,,,I mean read it properly you will recall I said

arayess wrote: »

they may understand the topic better than the average punter but please don't claim they know whether a vaccine is safe any better than anybody else.

.

[Deleted User] · 26-08-2017 9:42am

arayess wrote: »

oddly i do. I suggest your are talking out your hole...

There endeth the "debate". Don't get too wound up at it all. I'm just laughing at your whole "sure medicine is just a bit of jobbing...but I said MIMS so I know this stuff" shtick.

arayess · 26-08-2017 9:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

There endeth the "debate". Don't get too wound up at it all. I'm just laughing at your whole "sure medicine is just a bit of jobbing...but I said MIMS so I know this stuff" shtick.

could be worse....
you could write a post about "How I stood up to a man on the internet " and stick it beside the one of how you lost a friend

steddyeddy · 26-08-2017 9:50am

You two get a room!

[Deleted User] · 26-08-2017 9:51am

arayess wrote: »

could be worse....
you could write another post about "How I stood up to a man on the internet and lost a friend"

More and more wound up...it's delightful!

Count to ten...and relax...breath...is this the usual level of anti vaxx debate? Do they all fly off the handle about it because people laugh at the naivety of someone saying "I know as much as a doctor because I Googled some article"?

ancapailldorcha · 26-08-2017 10:07am

arayess wrote: »

Oddly you leave out the fact that some of the initial sources of the anti vax arguments found on google is made by well ....other doctors
They may be quacks or not....but they are doctors some of them with degrees and qualification galore...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

arayess wrote: »

This isn't true. There is some makey up anti vax stuff by blow hards I'll grant you that. But equally you have many people with no science background defending vaccinations to the hilt raging online about anti vaxxers and in reality they themselves haven't a rashers...

Clinical trials. You can't just package a vaccine or any other medical intervention and sell it. It has to be tested for safety and efficacy. People defend vaccinations to the hilt because they're almost universally safe and effective. Granted, there are a few isolated incidents but there's no such thing as a 100% safe and effective medical product or procedure.

arayess wrote: »

I am wary of the whole process and the demand no to over ride consent and parental consent is very worrying indeed.
It makes me question it more.

Given that pig ignorant, narcissistic parents who have no better source to derive self-worth from than feeding their own anti-corporation crusader fantasies stand to undo some of the greatest advances in medical history, no I am not one bit worried about overriding their consent. Frankly, if I had my way, every school in the country would be obligated to verify immunisaton records before admitting children.

TGJD · 26-08-2017 11:01am

arayess wrote: »

are they?
They get their degree spend a few years jobbing about and maybe upskill.
After that unless you are driven there is no obligation for refreshing your knowledge.
They consult the latest edition of MIMS to determine the medication and "next patient!"

.

There is an obligation to refresh your knowledge. Minimum 50 hours a year continuous medical education in order to keep your license.

Samaris · 26-08-2017 11:31am

My job requires me to be vaccinated against certain really nasty illnesses. Believe me, I take the vaccines over the risk of Hep B.

One of the biggest problems in all this is that it covers up actual potential problems with sheer hysteria. It is very difficult to investigate vaccines now because if one vaccine, no matter how little it is used, proves to actually be dangerous, it will be taken up gleefully by a horde of anti-vaxxers who will use it as a weapon to insist that no vaccines are safe.

No vaccines is not safe. God, we are not so far from the days when epidemics would sweep through a population and kill huge portions of it. Smallpox, eliminated in 1979 (more or less) due to vaccination, had already killed 300-500 million people in the 20th century. 80% of children who contracted it died. There is still no cure. That is sort of the risk that people want to take and worse, want to enforce on everyone else, despite the whole debate being very easily tracked back to a set of absolute lies.

Whooping cough, chickenpox, measles, mumps, German measles all did grave damage before being driven back by protecting individuals against contracting them as early as possible. They all sound like harmless little childhood illnesses. They're not.

Whooping cough - Extremely contagious, can last for up to ten weeks ("hundred day cough"), during which whoops can break ribs, cause breathlessness (even stop breathing temporarily in babies), rupture internal organs (seriously.) can cause fainting, vomiting and sometimes death. Vaccination is imperfect for this disease - people who are vaccinated can contract it (albeit it is more rare), but tend to get a milder dose.

Chickenpox - Extremely infectious, and more dangerous for new babies and for adults, in whom it can kill (associated risks in adults - encephalitis, pneumonia, bronchitis and hepatitis). Extremely dangerous in hospitals, so if you were too lazy to get vaccinated against it, be bloody careful about hospitals.

German measles - considered one of the lesser childhood illnesses. But it is very infectious and has a long incubation period. It was a devil in boarding schools as it could rip through the population in weeks. Rarely causes deaths, but if a pregnant woman gets exposed, the results can be devastating to her child.

We've forgotten what having these diseases endemic in our societies was like. We've forgotten that past generations rarely had a childhood in which one of their friends didn't die at some point in school years from an "innocent" childhood illness.

judeboy101 · 26-08-2017 11:40am

Samaris wrote: »

My job requires me to be vaccinated against certain really nasty illnesses. Believe me, I take the vaccines over the risk of Hep B.

One of the biggest problems in all this is that it covers up actual potential problems with sheer hysteria. It is very difficult to investigate vaccines now because if one vaccine, no matter how little it is used, proves to actually be dangerous, it will be taken up gleefully by a horde of anti-vaxxers who will use it as a weapon to insist that no vaccines are safe.

No vaccines is not safe. God, we are not so far from the days when epidemics would sweep through a population and kill huge portions of it. Smallpox, eliminated in 1979 (more or less) due to vaccination, had already killed 300-500 million people in the 20th century. 80% of children who contracted it died. There is still no cure. That is sort of the risk that people want to take and worse, want to enforce on everyone else, despite the whole debate being very easily tracked back to a set of absolute lies.

Whooping cough, chickenpox, measles, mumps, German measles all did grave damage before being driven back by protecting individuals against contracting them as early as possible. They all sound like harmless little childhood illnesses. They're not.

Whooping cough - Extremely contagious, can last for up to ten weeks ("hundred day cough"), during which whoops can break ribs, cause breathlessness (even stop breathing temporarily in babies), rupture internal organs (seriously.) can cause fainting, vomiting and sometimes death. Vaccination is imperfect for this disease - people who are vaccinated can contract it (albeit it is more rare), but tend to get a milder dose.

Chickenpox - Extremely infectious, and more dangerous for new babies and for adults, in whom it can kill (associated risks in adults - encephalitis, pneumonia, bronchitis and hepatitis). Extremely dangerous in hospitals, so if you were too lazy to get vaccinated against it, be bloody careful about hospitals.

German measles - considered one of the lesser childhood illnesses. But it is very infectious and has a long incubation period. It was a devil in boarding schools as it could rip through the population in weeks. Rarely causes deaths, but if a pregnant woman gets exposed, the results can be devastating to her child.

We've forgotten what having these diseases endemic in our societies was like. We've forgotten that past generations rarely had a childhood in which one of their friends didn't die at some point in school years from an "innocent" childhood illness.

Grew up in 70's/80's no such thing as mmr, 7 in 1 etc, neither myself or my friends died from contracting these diseases which were still endemic in Ireland.when my eldest brought home chicken pox. I made sure the rest of the kids shared their cups/baths etc. Certain diseases need to be eradicated due to globalization but not all.they act to weef out the weak and stupid.

ancapailldorcha · 26-08-2017 11:42am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Grew up in 70's/80's no such thing as mmr, 7 in 1 etc, neither myself or my friends died from contracting these diseases which were still endemic in Ireland.when my eldest brought home chicken pox. I made sure the rest of the kids shared their cups/baths etc. Certain diseases need to be eradicated due to globalization but not all.they act to weef out the weak and stupid.

As long as you and your mates are fine, screw everyone else. Is that it? It is nice to actually see the nastiness behind the anti-vax movement at least instead of the faux-concern which is usually on display.

Anti-vaxxers

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