How to get published

pickarooney · 08-07-2010 10:19am

steveoracle wrote: »

I recommend writing the first three chapters of your book and a summary. Then submit to publishers. If you're unsuccessful then you don't need to waste the time finishing the book, if you are successful then you'll be motivated to get it finished. You can even let publishers know you done this.

S

Any harm to ask what your professional experience is? This advice seems to go against conventional wisdom.

desolate sun · 08-07-2010 10:36am

pickarooney wrote: »

Any harm to ask what your professional experience is? This advice seems to go against conventional wisdom.

Yes, how would you know the summary of a book that you hadn't written yet? Books tend to change when you write them even if you know what they're about.

Eoin thanks so much for all these brilliant answers. I am reading them with great interest!

Eoinp · 08-07-2010 10:42am

steveoracle wrote: »

I recommend writing the first three chapters of your book and a summary. Then submit to publishers. If you're unsuccessful then you don't need to waste the time finishing the book, if you are successful then you'll be motivated to get it finished. You can even let publishers know you done this.

S

This is an awful plan for fiction. Agents and Publishers who like the first three chapters will want to read the rest quickly. DO NOT DISAPPOINT them, have a full manuscript ready to send to them if requested. Trying to shortcut the process will only end in you missing opportunities.

For non-fiction this is not always possible for a variety of reasons, and agents and publishers can understand that sop this may be appropriate, however for straight forward narrative fiction, of possible, I'd only submit having completed the text, but as I say, case by case is the best way to approach a non-fiction submission

Eoin

desolate sun · 08-07-2010 11:16am

Hi Eoin

I've written two manuscripts - a children's book and a literary/general fiction for adults.

At the moment I am very happy with the editing of my children's book so I would like to approach agents about this book.

What do I do about my adult's book? Should I approach another agent or wait and try and get my children's book published first? Would a publisher think I am being schizophrenic by not sticking to one category?
(The next book I am planning to write is young adult!)

Thank you

Eoinp · 08-07-2010 2:49pm

desolate sun wrote: »

Hi Eoin

I've written two manuscripts - a children's book and a literary/general fiction for adults.

At the moment I am very happy with the editing of my children's book so I would like to approach agents about this book.

What do I do about my adult's book? Should I approach another agent or wait and try and get my children's book published first? Would a publisher think I am being schizophrenic by not sticking to one category?
(The next book I am planning to write is young adult!)

Thank you

This isn't easy to answer so I'd suggest the following as the best course of action.

Most agents will want to represent all your work, so really research your agent. Make sure they have a speciality in children's and young adult fiction, but also have some sales in general/adult fiction. In your cover letter to the agent, make clear that this book is your first completed title and you have an interest in other niches and genres.

A publisher won't mind of you write more than one genre, there are ways to get around that (Hello Ian [M] Banks). However, be aware that if you get a deal in one genre they may well want another book in that genre (success allowing that is). so you may end up writing in the genre where you have first success.

But don't let that get in the way of submitting, just be aware of the possible issues!
Eoin

SamB64 · 12-07-2010 9:51am

This discussion, especuially the specific tips on structure and approaching publishers is very useful Personally I'd been considering self-publishing with Lulu.com, anyone got any success fromthis route?

Sam.

EileenG · 13-07-2010 12:15am

I know someone who has self-published successfully. BUT, she was a successful and well-established novelist before she did. And she spent 18 months, after she had finished the book, getting it professionally edited and typeset, and getting it into warehouses, and then into big chains like Hughes & Hughes and Amazon etc.

She said she has made more money on this novel than any of the others, and that she'll never self-publish again, it's far too much hassle and headache.

Eoinp · 14-07-2010 10:32am

SamB64 wrote: »

This discussion, especuially the specific tips on structure and approaching publishers is very useful Personally I'd been considering self-publishing with Lulu.com, anyone got any success from this route?

Sam.

As it happens I have some pretty non-traditional views on self publishing.

The first is that it's OKAY.
Most publishing professionals seem to think it is somehow "A BAD THING". I'm not in that camp. In fact, it's one of the reasons I'm running The One Stop Self Publishing Conference (http://onestopselfpublishing.com/) this October with a colleague, Vanessa O'Loughlin of Inkwell Creative Writing.

The second is that it must be done professionally
That means, a good edit, good typesetting, good cover design, good printing, good marketing, sales and distribution. That means the author has to realise that publishing is more that just printing or releasing a book, it requires thought and execution. A single individual CAN do it, but they need professional help (which isn't TOO expensive) especially if they want results.

The third is that there are people out there who will take your money.
And my key concern for authors looking at the options is that they educate themselves before they commit to an option. Probably the worst thing they can do is find a self publisher and buy a package without researching what that package gets you. There are good packages and good self publishing outfits, but you really need to know what they offer. Many for instance charge a great deal for little enough in return, and few offer editing as part of the deal.

But, as ever, authors need to be careful about when, how and why they engage in self publishing. They should only do it when they've thought through the ramifications and looked, honestly at their options.

All the best,
Eoin

The Mad Hatter · 14-07-2010 2:39pm

Hi Eoin -

Would posting stories here have any bearing on their future publishability?

outandabout · 14-07-2010 3:25pm

A friend of mine has commissioned a writer to write a family memoir.

The thorny issue, and I know it's never easy, is how to decide what the writer should be paid to ensure a fair deal for both parties.

Eoinp · 14-07-2010 5:09pm

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Hi Eoin -

Would posting stories here have any bearing on their future publishability?

I would say yes BUT only for those stories published here and with exceptions.

And here's why.

1) Publishers generally like exclusivity (its easier to sell something no-ones read before than stuff that's been freely available for a while).

2) When they are willing to accept non-exclusivity there's generally a good reason (ie you've been published by a recognized magazine like New Yorker or Granta etc.)

3) While you might well generate a bigger audience from Boards than from a mag like those mentioned, boards carries no cachet!

BUT

Keep in mind that writing material that you can use to promote yourself is worthwhile, just don't expect to use the same material in a published collection or novel. At least not initially.

So depends on what you want. I'd encourage you to publish here or on your own site and solicit feedback as well as keeping good material you are happy with to yourself or for submission to publishers.

Eoin

Eoinp · 14-07-2010 5:15pm

outandabout wrote: »

A friend of mine has commissioned a writer to write a family memoir.

The thorny issue, and I know it's never easy, is how to decide what the writer should be paid to ensure a fair deal for both parties.

My suggestion is to simply do one of the following
1) Suggest a fee that works for the friend and see what the author says (estimating for them the length and time you would expect them to spend on the project in return)

2) Ask for a quote on the basis of an estimate from the author!

Eoin

WHU · 15-07-2010 6:27pm

Eoinp wrote: »

So depends on what you want. I'd encourage you to publish here or on your own site and solicit feedback as well as keeping good material you are happy with to yourself or for submission to publishers.

Eoin

Sorry Eoin could you clarify this for me please.
Are you saying the work you know is good and you keep it to yourself plus any work you have posted on site is okay to submit for publishing.
or
Only work you have kept to yourself should be submitted for publishing.

Thanks

Antilles · 15-07-2010 6:59pm

WHU wrote: »

Only work you have kept to yourself should be submitted for publishing.

Thanks

I only post my worst writing up here.

Which, you know, explains everything.

Eoinp · 16-07-2010 11:30am

WHU wrote: »

Sorry Eoin could you clarify this for me please.
Are you saying the work you know is good and you keep it to yourself plus any work you have posted on site is okay to submit for publishing.
or
Only work you have kept to yourself should be submitted for publishing.

Thanks

What I'm saying is that if you have a cracker of a story or a book idea, submit that and write something else for your website.

It seems to me that most writers of fiction seem to concentrate far too much on ONE work and don't prepare for the work after that. This si true for short and long fiction.

If you write short stories, write one specifically for your website/blog or if novels maybe write a short story set in your world or about your characters for your website.

Ideally you'd have more than just that which you wish to submit.
Eoin

Eoinp · 16-07-2010 11:31am

WHU wrote: »

Only work you have kept to yourself should be submitted for publishing.

Thanks

I'd say in general it might be better to operate this policy but it's not essential.
See previous note

dawvee · 16-07-2010 12:57pm

Eoinp wrote: »

It seems to me that most writers of fiction seem to concentrate far too much on ONE work and don't prepare for the work after that. This si true for short and long fiction.

That's fantastic advice, Eoin, and I don't think it gets said enough to writers just starting out. Reading interviews with plenty of established authors, I get the distinct impression that no particular work is especially precious to them. They can always write another one, and their greatest work is always their next one (or their last, if they're still on the book tour

).

Listening to a lot of unpublished writers, I often get the opposite impression: things like the notorious "Great [American/Irish/Tuvaluan] Novel" that said writer has been working on for the last ten years. But very few successful writers ever wrote just one or two 'great' works. Most had a few hits, some near misses, and a ton more they burned or buried when they got their first hit.

LegacyUser · 23-07-2010 2:12am

Hi Eoin, just one quick (possibly stupid) question for ya: Do publishers and agents get a spike in manuscript submission for a short while after NaNoWriMo in November? And if so, would the resulting increased slush pile make that time period an unwise time to submit one's work?

deepriver · 26-07-2010 8:43pm

Hi Eoin,

Very informative thread and again many thanks...

I just had the following questions:

1) What do you recommend to write in the cover letter to accompany a manuscript submission to a publisher?

2) Is there a database or list of agents / publishing houses by publication category for Ireland?

3) When sending a manuscript should it be in a 100% ready to publish condition or would there be some flexibility / tolerance on the publishers part?*

*For example if you were an unpublished author and the story needed some shaping or characters needed to be developed, the publisher might work on the manuscript with you..?

Thanks in advance

dawvee · 26-07-2010 10:32pm

deepriver wrote: »

Hi Eoin,

Very informative thread and again many thanks...

I just had the following questions:

1) What do you recommend to write in the cover letter to accompany a manuscript submission to a publisher?

2) Is there a database or list of agents / publishing houses by publication category for Ireland?

3) When sending a manuscript should it be in a 100% ready to publish condition or would there be some flexibility / tolerance on the publishers part?*

*For example if you were an unpublished author and the story needed some shaping or characters needed to be developed, the publisher might work on the manuscript with you..?

Thanks in advance

For your second question, Publishing Ireland has a good listing of publishers and literary agents in Ireland (agents are listed under the "Writers" link on the left).

EileenG · 27-07-2010 2:57am

deepriver wrote: »

3) When sending a manuscript should it be in a 100% ready to publish condition or would there be some flexibility / tolerance on the publishers part?*

*For example if you were an unpublished author and the story needed some shaping or characters needed to be developed, the publisher might work on the manuscript with you..?

Thanks in advance

I have never met or heard of any publisher or agent who would do this. Far more likely that when you think the story is 100% perfect, they come back and say you have to lose half the characters and change the location from Leitrim to Los Angeles. before they would consider it.

pickarooney · 28-07-2010 3:19pm

Eoin,

I was just wondering if all publishers/agent still expect printed and bound submissions or if anyone has adopted e-book/PDF format?

Eoinp · 28-07-2010 10:36pm

deepriver wrote: »

Hi Eoin,

Very informative thread and again many thanks...

I just had the following questions:

1) What do you recommend to write in the cover letter to accompany a manuscript submission to a publisher?

2) Is there a database or list of agents / publishing houses by publication category for Ireland?

3) When sending a manuscript should it be in a 100% ready to publish condition or would there be some flexibility / tolerance on the publishers part?*

*For example if you were an unpublished author and the story needed some shaping or characters needed to be developed, the publisher might work on the manuscript with you..?

Thanks in advance

1) There's so much to this answer I don't even know where to start and it would be different for every author so I'll make the following suggestion> Read these agents and see what they advise, apply that to your own case. LIST I FORGOT TO INCLUDE:
- http://pubrants.blogspot.com/
- http://queryshark.blogspot.com/
- http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2008/03/query-letter-mad-lib.html (A basic query letter post but he has others

2) Publishing Ireland, as already mentioned is the best list. You would do well to grab the latest copy of the Writers & Artists Handbook (http://www.writersandartists.co.uk/).

3) I've answered this before in the list. Non-fiction there's some flexibility, Fiction I would advise against submitting without a complete manuscript.

* This will only happen if the publisher or agents sees the commercial potential of a book and they'll most likely demand a full manuscript before they commit to it.

Eoinp · 28-07-2010 10:36pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Eoin,

I was just wondering if all publishers/agent still expect printed and bound submissions or if anyone has adopted e-book/PDF format?

A few have moved to e-mail and it was always my preference. Check with them directly if you plan to submit!

Eoinp · 28-07-2010 10:38pm

Left Guard wrote: »

Hi Eoin, just one quick (possibly stupid) question for ya: Do publishers and agents get a spike in manuscript submission for a short while after NaNoWriMo in November? And if so, would the resulting increased slush pile make that time period an unwise time to submit one's work?

In my experience no, there is however a spike in January-march when people dust off old manuscripts and send them in or complete them because of resolutions.

Antilles · 28-07-2010 10:52pm

Maybe we should put a post at the top of this thread detailing questions which have already been answered (with direct links?), to stop repeats.

Fatboydim · 07-08-2010 6:39pm

Very interesting strand. Thank You.

For the writer who was asking about scripts - you would be much better advised to look for a UK based agent. As far as I know very few Irish agents rep script writers - even at the Lisa Richards agency the writers repped there are mostly novelists or directors who also write scripts.

Also check out BBC writersroom as it's a good source of info for newbies.

IrishEyes19 · 30-08-2010 5:12am

Hi, wondering if it's too late to ask a question since the thread is a little old. But with regards to the synopsis. What exactly in terms of detail are you looking for, as sometimes manuscript plots can be so detailed that I find it very difficult occasionally to explain the plot in a one page synopsis. I'm 19, and love writing and hope to be a published author sometime in the future. Could you provide me any tips to what you would regard to be a winning synopsis.

thanks.

Eoinp · 30-08-2010 1:25pm

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Hi, wondering if it's too late to ask a question since the thread is a little old. But with regards to the synopsis. What exactly in terms of detail are you looking for, as sometimes manuscript plots can be so detailed that I find it very difficult occasionally to explain the plot in a one page synopsis. I'm 19, and love writing and hope to be a published author sometime in the future. Could you provide me any tips to what you would regard to be a winning synopsis.

thanks.

It's vital that you learn to reduce the plot to one page. Just pare it back to its essentials, this is a good exercise for you anyway.

If you can't think of a short way to convey the story others might find it hard too!

Eoin

EileenG · 09-09-2010 9:19pm

What is your take on an agent charging a reading fee? A friend of mine submitted three chapters to an agent in England, and got back a request for the whole thing, plus a cheque for £69 as a reading fee.

How to get published

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