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Change apartment hot water system

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  • 22-04-2019 11:33pm
    #1
    Some_randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭


    So I have an apartment in Dublin city centre that was built some time in the 90s. The sitting room has an electric storage heater and the bedrooms have standard electric heaters.

    The water system consists of a hot water cylinder and a cold water tank with a ballcock. The water is heated overnight and the shower is a Mira Essentials with a pump that's fed with hot water from the cylinder. So it's not an instant electric shower - once all the hot water is used the heater / immersion will have to be turned on again.

    So I want to change the shower to an instant electric - a Triton T90 or similar so I won't have to heat the water overnight.

    Some questions:

    - can I swap the Mira directly for a Triton T90 - will the pipework be the same?
    - I have a dishwasher so I don't need hot water in the kitchen (or bathroom tap). Can I get rid of the hot water cylinder?
    - anything else I should be aware of?


    Tia
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    I'd imagine the cable to your existing shower might not be the recommended 6 or most likely 10.sq.mm for a pumped shower as it will have a higher heating requirements.

    If you get rid of hot water tank I'd imagine it would devalue the property, I assume there's no bath ?

    If you don't need hot water then you don't need it. Kettle, shower, washing machine, dishwasher all heat their own these days.


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    #3
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    - can I swap the Mira directly for a Triton T90 - will the pipework be the same?

    Your Mira Essentials is a power shower & runs back to a 3 amp fuse. The existing cable used for this shower would be way too small for an electric shower. The cable is just running the pump in the shower. If you want an electric shower you will need to run a dedicated cable. 6mm or 10mm to the fusebox & fit a 40amp RCBO. The hot supply going to your shower will need to be blanked also.

    Whatever about deciding never to use the hot water cylinder again & leaving it there I would think you'd regret removing it. I'm not up on building regs for apartments but I'd imagine a supply of hot water is a basic necessity in any dwelling. I'd hazard a guess that you wont be able to sell the apartment until you install a hot water cylinder.


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    #4
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The end result of all this is that you will use daytime tariff electricity instead of night rate, so you double your electricity bill.
    Whats the benefit to you?
    Maybe do a cost/benefit analysis of the project before you start?


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    #5
    M.T.D
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭M.T.D


    A power shower generally delivers a lot more water than an electric shower.
    Put a timer on the immersion heater for a hour each night and leave it on, assuming your tank is reasonably well insulated.
    The changes you are suggesting would be expensive and if you do have a night rate tariff running costs would be almost the same.
    It seems a lot of effort for the odd occasion that you have to wait 20 minutes for the tank to warm up for a shower.


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    #6
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    M.T.D wrote: »
    A power shower generally delivers a lot more water than an electric shower.Put a timer on the immersion heater
    He/she already has a power shower and the timeswitch is in the photo.


    Basic answers to the questions;
    can I swap the Mira directly for a Triton T90 - will the pipework be the same?
    No.
    I have a dishwasher so I don't need hot water in the kitchen (or bathroom tap). Can I get rid of the hot water cylinder?
    Yes.
    People with gas boilers often change to a combi boiler, then they have extra space in the hot press where the cylinder used to be.
    You'd need hot water at the kitchen tap, so factor in the cost of installing an instantaneous water heater under the sink too.


    All in all, a very expensive proposal, and no real benefits in the end.


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    #7
    Some_randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Some_randomer


    Ok so probably best to leave the hot water cylinder as is based on the feedback so far.

    But I'd still like to get an instant electric shower just for convenience and I don't think it'll be any more expensive. Currently I heat a full tank of water every night but the next day I might shower in the gym and not use the water at all, or I might go away for a few days and forget to turn off the water heater, so in these scenarios the water is being heated but not used. Another thing is if I have a few people staying and taking showers the hot water can run out.

    Sounds like I'll have to run a heavier electric cable if I want a Triton instant shower. Is there any easy way to do this or will it involve removing tiles? I've attached a pic of the bathroom, the water tanks are the other side of the wall the wall to the right of the shower.


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    #8
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,875 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Some_randomer wrote:
    Sounds like I'll have to run a heavier electric cable if I want a Triton instant shower. Is there any easy way to do this or will it involve removing tiles? I've attached a pic of the bathroom, the water tanks are the other side of the wall the wall to the right of the shower.


    If it were my apartment I'd leave the power shower where it is. It can be used when there is hot water.

    I'd feed a new pipe and electric cable through the hot press and put a triton t90sr on this wall. The new electric cable comes from the fuse box and usually in apartments it has to run surface as there is no attic or stud partition. Run it through the hot press. You can put the isolation switch just outside the hot press


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    #9
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Some_randomer wrote: »
    But I'd still like to get an instant electric shower just for convenience and I don't think it'll be any more expensive. Currently I heat a full tank of water every night but the next day I might shower in the gym and not use the water at all, or I might go away for a few days and forget to turn off the water heater, so in these scenarios the water is being heated but not used. Another thing is if I have a few people staying and taking showers the hot water can run out.
    I think you are overestimating the cost of "leaving the immersion on" (mind you it is a bit of an Irish phobia :) )

    But in your case the night rate electricity is at half price and those direct cylinders are especially well insulated (it will be 40-50mm thick) so they can easily stay hot for 24 hours.

    So if you don't use any hot water one day, it will cost SFA the next day to top the heat level back up fully.


    If mates arrive for showers, just leave the boost switch on until everyone is done.


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    #10
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Assuming you have a dual meter, I can’t see the advantage of messing with what you have.


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    #11
    ercork
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭ercork


    I would agree that the cost of installing an electric shower would be prohibitive. With your current system one hour of hot water costs 3x1x8=24cents per day. I've assumed a 3kW immersion and 8c per unit for night rate electricity.

    Regarding convenience there is no doubt that instant hot water is better than having to plan to heat a tank in advance, especially when having visitors. One upgrade you could look at is a WiFi enabled controller for your immersion. I haven't used one and don't know what they cost but it would certainly help with the 'leaving the immersion on' issue.


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    #12
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    I don't think a T90 is going to work well in this situation due to the lack of head height from the cold water storage.
    You may be better off considering a T.80z which is a mains water installation.
    Given that most apartment complexes have very strong pumped mains supply it may be worth looking into.
    If the mains supply is adequate you would then have the extra benefit of the shower unit being virtually silent.
    If you remove the hot water cylinder, you would have to ensure you still have hot water in your bathroom sink.
    Typically the timeclock you have is preset to run for anything up to 5 - 7 hrs. Change the timer to a more standard type and you can fine tune the time required to heat the water giving you more control and saving money.


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    #13
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Typically the timeclock you have is preset to run for anything up to 5 - 7 hrs. Change the timer to a more standard type and you can fine tune the time required to heat the water giving you more control and saving money.
    That one is fine for night rate tariffs. Once the water is hot, it won't use any further power anyway, even if there are another few hours on the clock (the immersion thermostat kicks in)

    Boost function is also available for (more expensive) daytime top-up usage.


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    #14
    ercork
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭ercork


    Be careful with this. The clock on my ESB meter is running about 2 hrs fast. If yours is doing something similar you might want to adjust the clock on your imersion to match.


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