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01-09-2020, 23:49   #31
feargale
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Sinn Fein were the main Irish group which showed sympathy to the Nazis. Not all of them of course, but quite a few. I would not use this as a stick to beat the modern day party with but on the other I think its laughable to constantly refer to fascism when discussing Fine Gael in those days when you need only look at the records of the various parties throughout the Emergency to see who was really in bed with the fascists.
Not forgetting Dan Breen. But if you look in other "republican" threads you will see that now we are supposed to forget SF/IRA's dalliance with Hitler, even the IRA atrocities of 1969- now while the "patriots" are free to talk about the Blueshirts, the Black and Tans, the Famine, Cromwell, oh ffs they whinge and harp on about the 800 years of oppression.
And some of them can't let go when the talk is of something such as Brexit. Thay have to bring all that stuff into it.
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02-09-2020, 10:21   #32
BloodyBill
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Originally Posted by feargale View Post
Not forgetting Dan Breen. But if you look in other "republican" threads you will see that now we are supposed to forget SF/IRA's dalliance with Hitler, even the IRA atrocities of 1969- now while the "patriots" are free to talk about the Blueshirts, the Black and Tans, the Famine, Cromwell, oh ffs they whinge and harp on about the 800 years of oppression.
And some of them can't let go when the talk is of something such as Brexit. Thay have to bring all that stuff into it.
Never a truer word was wrote. And Sinn Fein are successfully bringing their 'victim' culture down South and infecting our politics with it. Always painting themselves as oppressed . No matter what conversation is on they ll throw in the '800 years if oppression' 'Imperialism ' . You never hear the English going on about their 900 years of Oppression since the Norman invasion of 1066. They know that victimhood is in the long term poisonous.
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02-09-2020, 12:29   #33
Jim2007
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You never hear the English going on about their 900 years of Oppression since the Norman invasion of 1066. They know that victimhood is in the long term poisonous.
That would be because they embrace it as part of their culture and they have 900 years of racism built in that makes them feel superior to the peoples of the old empire. That’s why their happy to accept immigration from the old empire but not Europeans, can’t keep up the pretense there - reality breaks in.
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04-09-2020, 03:49   #34
meathstevie
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You can still see shadowy groups in Ireland in marching with quasi-military attire. Usually at funerals.

Ireland was a lot more conservative then, most people took the lead of the Catholic Church and favoured Franco over the legitimate Spanish government (obviously there were exceptions). The attacks on churches in Spain would have been enough to make up some people's minds.

I'm no fan of Eoin O'Duffy. But to suggest that he was some sort of proto-Hitler is laughable. If you look the actual Blueshirt ideology, stated aims, it basically boils down to following the catholic church and opposing communism. O'Duffy made lots of contradictory statements and positions, e.g. opposing ant-Antisemitism at a Fascist conference. He seemed to have been an effective IRA commander , but clearly was mentally past his prime by the 1930s.
A lot of people seem to be getting this wrong but fascism itself, although not very nice to say the least, was not necessarily anti-Semitic in it’s early days. As the alliance Mussolini and Hitler grew closer anti-Semitism became the norm although the Italians weren’t too hot on holding razzia’s and organising the mass murder of Italian Jews.

After the Allied invasion of Italy and the fall and propping up of Mussolini as a figurehead by the Nazi’s very significant amounts of Jewish folks were deported from Italy and previously Italian occupied parts of France.
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04-09-2020, 10:17   #35
Hyus
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A lot of people seem to be getting this wrong but fascism itself, although not very nice to say the least, was not necessarily anti-Semitic in it’s early days. As the alliance Mussolini and Hitler grew closer anti-Semitism became the norm although the Italians weren’t too hot on holding razzia’s and organising the mass murder of Italian Jews.

After the Allied invasion of Italy and the fall and propping up of Mussolini as a figurehead by the Nazi’s very significant amounts of Jewish folks were deported from Italy and previously Italian occupied parts of France.

This is an important point. There were even Italian Jews who supported the Fascist movement in it's early days (e.g. Ettore Ovazza, who was sadly killed by the SS in 1943). At the Montreux Fascist Conference in 1934, O'Duffy and Eugenio Coselschi (acting president of the meeting) were against including any hardline anti-semitism into the principles of the "Fascist International", while delegates from some other countries like Romania wanted it to be a central point.



Overall, O'Duffy was certainly a right-wing nationalist and favoured an authoritarian form of government, but to imagine that his ideals were akin to Nazism is ridiculous. He may have favoured Catholics, but there was no talk of genocide or Nuremberg Laws in Ireland from his side. Anti-Communism and Catholic nationalism seem to have been the central tenets of his ideology by the time the National Corporate Party was founded, not European conquest or a crusade for racial supremacy.

Last edited by Hyus; 04-09-2020 at 10:22.
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