€250,000 for the Orange Men

gurramok · 05-02-2008 6:02pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

can anyone tell me what it means to be an Orangeman and what they philosophy is? It would be interesting to see how much people know about them as opposed to what they think they know.

That ain't hard, you don't know???

They uphold the right of Protestant religion to be the superior religion where they reside.
They do not accept any other religion and uphold their religion as the righteous one in Britain especially when it come to the monarchy.
They do not accept anyone from any other religion in their membership.
They walk where they like, they parade where they like on the 'queens highway' to parade.
They do not recognise the Parade's Commission
They are not allowed to attend anything especially Catholic like funerals, mass, christenings etc.
They play and sing offensive songs about a certain race of people(you can guess this one

)

Here's some simple explanation
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1422212.stm

bbc wrote:

It regards itself as defending civil and religious liberties of Protestants and seeks to uphold the rule and ascendancy of a Protestant monarch in the United Kingdom.

The only membership criteria is that an applicant is Protestant

Morlar · 05-02-2008 6:09pm

'€250,000 for the Orange Men'

Those ****ers are a lot cheapr on ebay - typical public sector overspend.

Fratton Fred · 05-02-2008 6:28pm

they sound worse than freemasons...feck em all:D

cooperguy · 05-02-2008 6:42pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think that would be fair to say for the NI Orange Men, but not south of the border. If it is right then I stand corrected and withdraw my comparison.

I don't think any pseudo political organisations should get money though, especially as they are perfectly capable of generating all they need by themselves.

Its a bigoted discriminatory organisation that doesnt allow either woman or anybody of a religion other than protestantism join. On that basis alone it should not be funded

Dudess · 05-02-2008 8:35pm

Igy wrote: »

There's an Orange Order presence in those counties?

There's an Orange lodge in Bandon, Co Cork.

Gran Hermano · 05-02-2008 8:45pm

Dudess wrote: »

There's an Orange lodge in Bandon, Co Cork.

And several in West Africa.

randylonghorn · 05-02-2008 9:44pm

Lord, I honestly don't know what I think on this one ... 90% of me thinks "No! Sectarian organiation, associated with violent partisan hate crimes, etc."

But there is a bit of me thinks that if only as a symbol that says "We want all sides to get over themselves and move on, and get on together ..." it may be cheap at the price. Lord knows our government spends more on even dafter things.

I would be very interested to know what exactly the money is to be used for ... the info is not especially detailed.

KTRIC wrote: »

I was so excited that my finger slipped ...

Bet you say that all the time!

Bass Cadet · 06-02-2008 11:05am

If my tax money is going towards the Orange Order, then does that mean as a Roman Catholic I can join the organisation if I want? Or perhaps use their facilities if I wish? Isn't this why we pay tax? I'm away to get onto the grand wizard or whatever the fack they call themselves, cause my girlfriend wants to join too....oops, we can't we're not WASP

Bigotted, sexist, sectarian organisation gets money from the government? O'Cuiv is an apologist for the very people who hate him and his kind because of his nationality and religion

More news today that An Post are to commemorate the burning of native irish Catholics out of their homes following the Flight of the Earls in 1607 in 'Ulsters Plantations' -no joke

kmick · 06-02-2008 11:15am

Anyone ever here of the concept of 'kill them with kindness'. You normalise an organisation like that and you take all the spit and fight out of it. They are no longer the refuge of the besieged. I think its genius. Look at Sinn Fein - since it got normalised it has been losing support. Its only 250,000 - I bet we spend more each year cleaning up chewing gum on grafton sreet.

See a quote form this article referenced above
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1422212.stm
But in 2000, one senior figure said that the Orange Order was losing moderate members because it was increasingly dominated by politics, "ignorance and malevolence".

The Real B-man · 06-02-2008 11:22am

Riot anyone?

Fratton Fred · 06-02-2008 11:39am

cooperguy wrote: »

Its a bigoted discriminatory organisation that doesnt allow either woman or anybody of a religion other than protestantism join. On that basis alone it should not be funded

Bass Cadet wrote: »

If my tax money is going towards the Orange Order, then does that mean as a Roman Catholic I can join the organisation if I want? Or perhaps use their facilities if I wish? Isn't this why we pay tax? I'm away to get onto the grand wizard or whatever the fack they call themselves, cause my girlfriend wants to join too....oops, we can't we're not WASP

Bigotted, sexist, sectarian organisation gets money from the government? O'Cuiv is an apologist for the very people who hate him and his kind because of his nationality and religion

Both posts could easily apply to the Catholic Church as well.

Oh the Irony.

WhiteWashMan · 06-02-2008 12:13pm

KTRIC wrote: »

Our glorious leaders have decided to piss our hard earned tax Euro's up against the wall and hand over €250,000 to the Orangemen :eek:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheyqlojcwau/

What's next, give them their own county ?

Oh and WHOOOOOOOO , 4000th post

i know, they should give even more money to that GAA. That would show them proddie basatrds

randylonghorn · 07-02-2008 12:36am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Both posts could easily apply to the Catholic Church as well.

Oh the Irony.

Ah, wait now, let's keep it accurate.

The Catholic Church lets women join no problem, just doesn't let them wear such nice dresses on the altar or play with as many of the toys ...

Black Swan · 07-02-2008 12:39am

No Orange Men in Orange County.

randylonghorn · 07-02-2008 12:46am

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

No Orange Men in Orange County.

Got a better quality of fake tan over there, have they?

Black Swan · 07-02-2008 11:18am

Some of us actually sunbathe, but in moderation, so that we will not turn into lizard-skinned people when older. And although my tan is light, it's not artificially orange... So I'm not an Orange (Wo)man in colour (or troubles politics for that matter).

Saruman · 07-02-2008 11:22am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

*perhaps the money would be better spent on teaching people how to pluralise the word 'Euro'?

+1
Brilliant

I do not think the money should have been given to an organisation that discriminates and will not allow a catholic to join. and while they do have a woman's version, women can not join the same group as the men.

Both posts could easily apply to the Catholic Church as well.

Oh the Irony.

Does the catholic church get money from us taxpayers? If so then they should not either... no religious order should get taxpayers money in grants from the government. that money comes from people who do not believe in their religion and would never attend their service.. hell im including catholic's in this... how many still go to mass? Once they have their communion money most people are done with the church. From what i can see anyway.

kmick · 07-02-2008 11:36am

Yeah I looked it up and in 2005 we spent 250,000 cleaning up chewing gum from Dublin streets. if we consider the Orange Order as a pack of chewed gum and that we need 250,000 to remove this useless gum from our streets then it seems rather cheap.

Saruman · 07-02-2008 11:37am

250k could have easily paid for a few facials for our glorious leader

mikemac · 07-02-2008 11:41am

Saruman wrote: »

Once they have their communion money most people are done with the church. From what i can see anyway.

Have any friends get married lately?
Attend any funerals in the last few years?

Whatever about funerals, I always wondered why people aren't seen in Mass for years but then have a Church wedding

Badly offtopic though, might start a new thread

Red Alert · 07-02-2008 11:53am

The orange order which fosters hate and oppression are funded while people are homeless and families are in financial difficulty in dublin??

cooperguy · 07-02-2008 1:07pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Both posts could easily apply to the Catholic Church as well.

Oh the Irony.

No they couldnt. The catholic church isnt bigoted in fact it preaches tolerance etc. etc. and it does let woman join.

Saruman · 07-02-2008 1:11pm

micmclo wrote: »

Have any friends get married lately?
Attend any funerals in the last few years?

Whatever about funerals, I always wondered why people aren't seen in Mass for years but then have a Church wedding

Badly offtopic though, might start a new thread

Well i got married in Vegas

Although the preacher did read from the bible etc. I later had a second ceremony in Dublin performed by my old church. For the family as i had not gone in years.

Sleepy · 07-02-2008 1:31pm

It's as disgraceful as the state paying the compensation to the abuse victims of the Catholic Church imho.

Though I have to ask: does this mean that Fianna Fail are no longer 'the republican party'?

Saruman · 07-02-2008 1:40pm

Sleepy wrote: »

It's as disgraceful as the state paying the compensation to the abuse victims of the Catholic Church imho.

Though I have to ask: does this mean that Fianna Fail are no longer 'the republican party'?

While they should not have to pay it, the church should as it was a church person... If it happened in a church run school, this is a state funded school so the state is responsible. However it happened in a church (alter boy etc) then the state should have no responsibility.

Fratton Fred · 07-02-2008 2:08pm

cooperguy wrote: »

No they couldnt. The catholic church isnt bigoted in fact it preaches tolerance etc. etc. and it does let woman join.

then why will they only marry a non catholic if they sign an agreement stating that any children of the marriage are brought up catholic, or constantly speak out against homosexuality. The Pope recently declared that all non catholic christian religions aren't "Proper Faiths".

Why will they not ordain women or give non catholic communion?

tolerant my arse.

randylonghorn · 07-02-2008 11:29pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

then why will they only marry a non catholic if they sign an agreement stating that any children of the marriage are brought up catholic, or constantly speak out against homosexuality. The Pope recently declared that all non catholic christian religions aren't "Proper Faiths".

Why will they not ordain women or give non catholic communion?

tolerant my arse.

While I don't actually disagree with any of your points, Fred, in the interests of fairness it has to be pointed out that these days the extreme fundamentalist Protestant groups are far more intolerant than the Catholic Church. Fringe / minority, I accept ... but very very vocal.

It is a pity though that the church which seemed to have embarked on a healthy, open and ecumenical road post-Vatican II has gradually been backsliding into conservatism over the last couple of decades ... I often wonder if it would have been a very different story if John Paul I had lasted as long as his successor, rather than dying within a few weeks.

Fratton Fred · 08-02-2008 11:11am

randylonghorn wrote: »

While I don't actually disagree with any of your points, Fred, in the interests of fairness it has to be pointed out that these days the extreme fundamentalist Protestant groups are far more intolerant than the Catholic Church. Fringe / minority, I accept ... but very very vocal.

It is a pity though that the church which seemed to have embarked on a healthy, open and ecumenical road post-Vatican II has gradually been backsliding into conservatism over the last couple of decades ... I often wonder if it would have been a very different story if John Paul I had lasted as long as his successor, rather than dying within a few weeks.

I agree.

That is why I don't like the term protestant because it is a catch all for pretty much everything that is not Catholic or Orthodox.

The majority of Orange Men, I believe are presbytarians who, I think ti would be fair to say, are the Opus Dei of the Protestant world.

Rob_l · 08-02-2008 11:21am

I dont see the problem 250,000 is not a massive sum of money and like it or not the orange order are a part of irish culture and should be funded as much as any other stupid body.

The Hill Billy · 08-02-2008 1:43pm

Rob_l wrote: »

and like it or not the orange order are a part of irish culture and should be funded as much as any other stupid body.

And like it or not the Ku Klux Klan are part of American culture. But would you consider it right that they be government funded? I think not.

This is political correctness getting fcuked up & ârse about face. You can be damn sure that if the Orange Order were anti-jewish/black/traveller/other minority they wouldn't get funding. It is a case of "well they are only anti-catholic so that's ok then."

€250,000 for the Orange Men

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