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CH or LIM bull

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    #32
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    DukeCaboom wrote: »
    Do you mix any soya with it?

    No. Be afraid it would end up on the calf.


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    #33
    john mayo 10
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭john mayo 10


    Ok lads. I've decided I'm going to go for a limousine. Called to a guy today that rents out bulls. Really put off that idea. I wouldn't let anything he had into my yard. Going to buy one I instead. Chatting to a guy I know this evening. I buy springers off him most years. Sound fella. He has a limousine bull bout 12 month old. Reckons bout 430kgs but a month proper feeding would turn him inside out. Good breeding aswell. Out of a GWO bull. Might take a look next weekend


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    #34
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Enjoyed reading this thread. We’re lim mainly the last 15 years and I’ve been agitating for a change bk to Charolais. Not so sure now. I’m not just so sure there’s £100 in the difference either a good animal gets a good price. That talk is just conjecture not real research. A bit like gestation and CD until Patsy put up the actual average differences between the breeds.


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    #35
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭tanko


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    What ICBF say;

    Gestation, average for breed
    Char = +2.73 days
    Lim = +3.81 days
    So only 1.1 days longer on average.

    Calving, average for breed
    Char = 6.89%
    Lim = 4.69%
    So only 2.2% more

    From my own personal experience. If working off farm , go limousin. If at home fulltime go Charolais.

    One evening a couple of years ago i went through the gestation lengths of about 500 calves that were born here over the previous 15 years, mostly CH and Lims.
    This covered dozens of different bulls. On overage the gestation length for the CH's was 9 months and 11 days, for the Lims it was 9 months and 18 days, so a week longer for the Lims.

    A bull with a calving difficulty of 6.89% is far harder calved than a bull with a calving difficulty of 4.69%. That's not how those figures work. It not 2% harder calved, it's far more than that.


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    #36
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Well explain how those figures work so.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #37
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭tanko


    Explain how ICBF figures work?
    People a lot smarter than me have tried.
    I'd consider a bull with a calving difficulty of 7% a lot harder calved than a bull with a CD of 5%. Cows here will usually pop out the 5% bull but i'd need to have a jack handy for a 7% bull, that's just my experience anyway.


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    #38
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    tanko wrote: »
    Explain how ICBF figures work?
    People a lot smarter than me have tried.
    I'd consider a bull with a calving difficulty of 7% a lot harder calved than a bull with a CD of 5%. Cows here will usually pop out the 5% bull but i'd need to have a jack handy for a 7% bull, that's just my experience anyway.

    Your feeding thrm too much, havent touched a cow this year, over a third had bulls over 15%cd


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    #39
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    john mayo 10 wrote: »
    Ok lads. I've decided I'm going to go for a limousine. Called to a guy today that rents out bulls. Really put off that idea. I wouldn't let anything he had into my yard. Going to buy one I instead. Chatting to a guy I know this evening. I buy springers off him most years. Sound fella. He has a limousine bull bout 12 month old. Reckons bout 430kgs but a month proper feeding would turn him inside out. Good breeding aswell. Out of a GWO bull. Might take a look next weekend

    430 kgs at 12 months isnt the type of animal that is going to have class weanlings, a pedigree bull worth his salt should be that at 8 or 9 months


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    #40
    john mayo 10
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭john mayo 10


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    430 kgs at 12 months isnt the type of animal that is going to have class weanlings, a pedigree bull worth his salt should be that at 8 or 9 months

    That's what I'm thinking too


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    john mayo 10 wrote: »
    Ok lads. I've decided I'm going to go for a limousine. Called to a guy today that rents out bulls. Really put off that idea. I wouldn't let anything he had into my yard. Going to buy one I instead. Chatting to a guy I know this evening. I buy springers off him most years. Sound fella. He has a limousine bull bout 12 month old. Reckons bout 430kgs but a month proper feeding would turn him inside out. Good breeding aswell. Out of a GWO bull. Might take a look next weekend
    If you have big cows a 1 year old limo will be too small.

    A small bull should be able for heifers


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    #42
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    430 kgs at 12 months isnt the type of animal that is going to have class weanlings, a pedigree bull worth his salt should be that at 8 or 9 months

    I’d agree with this and I wouldn’t like buying a bull that needs to be fed properly to turn him inside out. That’s ok for dry cattle something you’re selling on but this is a big investment.
    In my lifetime we’ve had 3 Charolais bulls and 3 lim. The first old ch bull left the first half dozen cows not fit to get up for a number of days other than that the other 5 are very similar for cd with the ch slightly harder - we use the lim boys on cows and heifers but wouldn’t do that with the ch. I suppose that’s an added benefit of our lims. I think they’re plenty big enough for the cows too- they tend to have bigger born calves with the same bull anyway
    You could get a bull with a couple of seasons done and see calves on the ground. That would be cheaper at buyin and not as long term


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    #43
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    john mayo 10 wrote: »
    That's what I'm thinking too

    Was just thinking he's a bit light. I've an 11 month lim bull here off Loyal and he's 480kgs i reckon. Prob sell him at 13 months if you're still looking :D


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    #44
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    A lot of weight gain with bulls is down to feeding. No different to weanlings coming off cows with more milk.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    Was just thinking he's a bit light. I've an 11 month lim bull here off Loyal and he's 480kgs i reckon. Prob sell him at 13 months if you're still looking :D

    Any pics


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    #46
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    A lot of weight gain with bulls is down to feeding. No different to weanlings coming off cows with more milk.

    True, this lad was on the outfarm all summer so only been fed since he's in the shed. Dam would be milky enough though.

    I've no recent pics but I'll wait for the rain to stop before I go get some!!


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    #47
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    If your cows have reasonable size, which they should off those breeds, would a Parthenais be worth considering? Easier calved them the Ch, shorter gestation than the Lm, good temperament and excellent confirmation.
    Not a suckler man myself but my neighbour has one. He's a man for the high end weanling market and he's delighted with him.
    BTW this is a question in general, not a recommendation as I don't have the personal experience to do so.

    Also I'd be slow to use a young bull or a highly fed one, a rule of thumb I've heard is 1 cow for every month of age up to 30.


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    #48
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Any pics

    He's not the best in the world, but not the worst either. He was a bit iffy temperament wise until I started roping him, much more settled now.

    C8VuEWwh.jpg
    IWGBf1hh.jpg
    7K6vo5bh.jpg
    tTEX9l7h.jpg


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    #49
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭Who2


    Today was a fair deciding factor for me on the bulls I use. I had an sfl red blue calve last year to a ch bull and broke a jack and had to put down the calf, same cow calved down last night to the limo, on her own with a fairly good calf. I’d a bressie bred sh cow calve this morning to ch bull, savage calf but dead within two hours and a savage pull on the jack. Same cow spat out lim last year. We don’t get paid enough for this hassle.


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    #50
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Castlekeeper wrote: »
    If your cows have reasonable size, which they should off those breeds, would a Parthenais be worth considering? Easier calved them the Ch, shorter gestation than the Lm, good temperament and excellent confirmation.
    Not a suckler man myself but my neighbour has one. He's a man for the high end weanling market and he's delighted with him.
    BTW this is a question in general, not a recommendation as I don't have the personal experience to do so.

    Also I'd be slow to use a young bull or a highly fed one, a rule of thumb I've heard is 1 cow for every month of age up to 30.

    I’d be interested to see reactions to this question. I don’t think pt are quiet at all any we’ve had are very highly strung and giddy but def not dangerous. Also find them to have limited stickability as cows but to be fair my evidence is on a small number. Whatever about a few ai I wouldn’t be chancing a bull


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Castlekeeper wrote: »
    If your cows have reasonable size, which they should off those breeds, would a Parthenais be worth considering? Easier calved them the Ch, shorter gestation than the Lm, good temperament and excellent confirmation.
    Not a suckler man myself but my neighbour has one. He's a man for the high end weanling market and he's delighted with him.
    BTW this is a question in general, not a recommendation as I don't have the personal experience to do so.

    Also I'd be slow to use a young bull or a highly fed one, a rule of thumb I've heard is 1 cow for every month of age up to 30.

    What about an aubrac? Supposed to be easy calving


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    #52
    Mac Taylor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Mac Taylor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What about an aubrac? Supposed to be easy calving

    The problem with an aubrac is if he is selling weanlings he will take a hit, if he is finishing then I would say it would not matter a Jot.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mac Taylor wrote: »
    The problem with an aubrac is if he is selling weanlings he will take a hit, if he is finishing then I would say it would not matter a Jot.

    Yeah but are they easily calved?

    Supposed to be 35 to 40 kg at birth.

    You need someone looking at them once during the day ideally. Even when they are easy calving about 1 in a hundred comes back ways


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    #54
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Did a farm walk lately and the man in question had an aged enough lim bull, bought in aa and a very average looking stabilizer bull. With all his calculations he reckons the stabilizer is the one to turn the most profit. On view alone you wouldn’t touch him but then he’s finishing so not looking a flash weanling


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    #55
    cacs
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭cacs


    Would you consider blond Aquatatine


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Did a farm walk lately and the man in question had an aged enough lim bull, bought in aa and a very average looking stabilizer bull. With all his calculations he reckons the stabilizer is the one to turn the most profit. On view alone you wouldn’t touch him but then he’s finishing so not looking a flash weanling

    Where can you buy a stabilizer bull?

    I think they might be spot on for someone like myself part time farmer finishing the calves.


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    #57
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Where can you buy a stabilizer bull?

    I think they might be spot on for someone like myself part time farmer finishing the calves.

    The man to whom I referred got his bull off this man https://www.donedeal.co.uk/beefcattle-for-sale/stabiliser-cattle/6821335
    He’s been advertising on dd for a good number of years. I agree they’d suit that job meant to be great lively calves with medium sized cows. Not all that much to look at though


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    The man to whom I referred got his bull off this man https://www.donedeal.co.uk/beefcattle-for-sale/stabiliser-cattle/6821335
    He’s been advertising on dd for a good number of years. I agree they’d suit that job meant to be great lively calves with medium sized cows. Not all that much to look at though

    Sound


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    #59
    john mayo 10
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭john mayo 10


    Missed out on a nice app commander bull on Saturday. Coming 2 year old. Wasnt in the mart myself . Unsold at 1480 but bought outside at 1550. Had a fellow looking for me.


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    #60
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Have a home-bred commander bull here myself but he won't be a yearling till april. Don't know if he'll be ok for this season, but he's already jumping on cows. Might keep him till May to sell.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #61
    john mayo 10
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭john mayo 10


    Anyone know much about Tomchoice jet. Bull for sale by him out of a TVR dam. Calfing difficulty is high for heifers but reliability is low. He looks a fine bull


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