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Buying bitcoins

13567…225

Comments

  • #62
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Of course it's not going to happen. But that's the basis upon which the bitcoin proselytisers campaign.

    How is that the basis for which bitcoin proselytisers its campaign ??


  • #63
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Have you any idea what a wheelbarrow of gold would buy?

    A lot at the moment. It would be very easily stolen also. You keep side stepping the questions, are you a politician?


  • #64
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    A lot at the moment. It would be very easily stolen also. You keep side stepping the questions, are you a politician?

    A wheelbarrow of gold would buy streets of Dublin. An ounce of silver on the other hand would do a few day's shopping for one or two people. Does that answer your question?


  • #65
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    A wheelbarrow of gold would buy streets of Dublin. An ounce of silver on the other hand would do a few day's shopping for one or two people. Does that answer your question?

    And how would you transfer it to the head office in the USA? On a boat/plane, very quick and practical, "streets of dublin" is also a serious exaggeration. Id say a person dealing with large sums of money on a day to day basis would have a bit of a dodgy back also. This is 2013 not 1885.


  • #66
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    And how would you transfer it to the head office in the USA? On a boat/plane, very quick and practical, "streets of dublin" is also a serious exaggeration. Id say a person dealing with large sums of money on a day to day basis would have a bit of a dodgy back also. This is 2013 not 1885.

    A single ounce coin of gold is 1,250 euro tonight, so what would you think a wheelbarrow full of the stuff would buy?


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  • #67
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    A single ounce coin of gold is 1,250 euro tonight, so what would you think a wheelbarrow full of the stuff would buy?

    Fair enough, your answer to the worlds troubles is go back to "coins". For an investor you're logic amuses me.


  • #68
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    Fair enough, your answer to the worlds troubles is go back to "coins". For an investor you're logic amuses me.

    That's not my answer to the world's problems. That's my response to the apocalypse you hope will bring about the advent of bitcoin.


  • #69
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You've been reading far too many conspiracy websites and insufficient investing ones imho.
    There's always an economy and they evolve with circumstances. The main argument FOR bitcoin is that it will transcend its current status as an anonymising agent for drug dealers and present an alternative to fiat currency. That is undermined by both its inability to inflate (the cap) and its vulnerability to the very collapse of the economic status quo that its proponents await (not unlike hardcore communists awaiting the revolution).
    In the event that the electronic infrastructure went down, an economy of sorts will continue until the system can be rebooted. In those circumstances, cash, silver and gold would come into their own and bitcoin would be irrelevant.

    Your suggesting there being a cap is a negative. You're also suggesting being anonymous isn't a strong selling point, and that brining down a network you can't find is easy. Imo your wrong on all three counts.


  • #70
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    Your suggesting there being a cap is a negative. You're also suggesting being anonymous isn't a strong selling point, and that brining down a network you can't find is easy. Imo your wrong on all three counts.

    Having a cap prohibits usage as a global alternative currency.

    Being anonymous (and facilitating trade in illegal drugs) brings the attention and regulation of the authorities eventually.

    Bringing down a network is as easy as preventing access to the network.


  • #71
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Having a cap prohibits usage as a global alternative currency.

    Being anonymous (and facilitating trade in illegal drugs) brings the attention and regulation of the authorities eventually.

    Bringing down a network is as easy as preventing access to the network.

    For you to bring down the network you would have to shut access to the internet for every single person in the world, Each person is a node. This is impossible.


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  • #72
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    For you to bring down the network you would have to shut access to the internet for every single person in the world, Each person is a node. This is impossible.

    You just need to shut access to the network. That can be done through regulation, which is likely imminent, or through hacking an exchange, as has happened already.


  • #73
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You just need to shut access to the network. That can be done through regulation, which is likely imminent, or through hacking an exchange, as has happened already.

    What network?? I don't think you understand bitcoin at all. I am the network, the other person is the network.

    And as you can see the hacking of ONE exchange doesn't have a huge effect does it, with bitcoin trading @ 61 euros per coin on that same exchange. Also the "exchange hacking" was done by social engineering and was the fault of the domain name register not the exchange. Do a bit of reading and educate yourself.


  • #74
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You just need to shut access to the network.

    I got an awful funny mental image in my head : Gardai using "major network shutting GUI" shutting the internet down.


    hahaha

    Almost as good as this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f2vFJuo6rA


  • #75
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    What network?? I don't think you understand bitcoin at all. I am the network, the other person is the network.

    And as you can see the hacking of ONE exchange doesn't have a huge effect does it, with bitcoin trading @ 61 euros per coin on that same exchange. Also the "exchange hacking" was done by social engineering and was the fault of the domain name register not the exchange. Do a bit of reading and educate yourself.

    It had plenty of an effect when the notional value plunged by over 80% in a matter of hours.
    I'm loathe to continue this, since this is clearly better suited to the conspiracy theories forum than investing (eg your problem with 'mainstream media', etc), but let me ask you this. Which way do you think the notional value of bitcoin will go if the US were to declare ownership illegal on the basis of its use as a drug trafficking interface?


  • #76
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    zonEEE wrote: »
    I got an awful funny mental image in my head : Gardai using "major network shutting GUI" shutting the internet down.


    hahaha

    Yes, you do seem to be hallucinating all sorts of weird and wonderful scenarios alright. Few of them seem to relate to the actual world, however.


  • #77
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    It had plenty of an effect when the notional value plunged by over 80% in a matter of hours.
    I'm loathe to continue this, since this is clearly better suited to the conspiracy theories forum than investing (eg your problem with 'mainstream media', etc), but let me ask you this. Which way do you think the notional value of bitcoin will go if the US were to declare ownership illegal on the basis of its use as a drug trafficking interface?

    THERE IS NO BITCOIN FOUNDATION, THERE IS NO BITCOIN SERVER. THERE IS NO BITCOIN OFFICE. They cannot claim ownership and shut it down.

    We have been going around in circles for the past few days, can you not get the concept into your head?

    There is a reason the financial system is the way it it, its because of people like you.

    Why hasn't Bittorrent been shut down?


  • #78
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    OK, I'm done here. I have no requirement to take persistent personal abuse from someone who seeks to proselytise for an experimental drug dealing currency so that they can bring down the global economic system. I don't think that tone of posting is appropriate for the investment forum, frankly.

    I looked into it, because I see the value of fiat currency declining and because there is a lot of volatility and potential weakness in stocks and bonds.

    I concluded that it was a dangerous investment, likely in a bubble, and vulnerable to IT integrity compromise and to legislative developments.

    I've expansively explained my reasons for those conclusions. It seems clear to me that Zone EEE and maybe one or two other posters here are not investors at all, but are rather proselytisers for this experimental currency on ideological rather than sound investment bases.

    I encourage everyone as always to do as I did and perform their own due diligence before investing a cent of their money.


  • #79
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Cavehill Red your criticisms are off the mark, you clearly do not understand the basic technical stuff behind this. Indeed you should not invest in something you have no idea about.

    In regard to one specific point about the cap:
    This does not limit it's usefulness. Since this is purely digital, there is no problem sending someone 0.0000000001 of a bitcoin - or other arbitrary division.


  • #80
    Spanish Harlem
    Site Banned Posts: 99 ✭✭Spanish Harlem


    There is an irrational fear of "the internet" carved profoundly into the psyche of Irish people over the age of 25. The same demographic who demanded action to prevent "Facebook rape" :rolleyes: I'm not sure why this is. I can only presume it's because they grew up without computers and the internet is not a physical entity. It can't be touched or seen. These same people have a deep distrust of cards and insist in paying for everything in cold hard cash.


    Some people would be happier carrying heavy bags of gold around to buy the bread and milk at the corner shop. Get with the times. Bitcoin is here to stay. Deal with it.


  • #81
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Of the last three posters (other than me), two have a combined posting in this forum of 15 posts, and the third has 27, all of which are on this thread.

    I'll leave it to those reading to do their own due diligence and decide whether the investment is being proposed because it is a good investment or because of ideological reasons by non-investors.


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  • #82
    zonEEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭zonEEE


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    OK, I'm done here. I have no requirement to take persistent personal abuse from someone who seeks to proselytise for an experimental drug dealing currency so that they can bring down the global economic system. I don't think that tone of posting is appropriate for the investment forum, frankly.

    I looked into it, because I see the value of fiat currency declining and because there is a lot of volatility and potential weakness in stocks and bonds.

    I concluded that it was a dangerous investment, likely in a bubble, and vulnerable to IT integrity compromise and to legislative developments.

    I've expansively explained my reasons for those conclusions. It seems clear to me that Zone EEE and maybe one or two other posters here are not investors at all, but are rather proselytisers for this experimental currency on ideological rather than sound investment bases.

    I encourage everyone as always to do as I did and perform their own due diligence before investing a cent of their money.

    /Bangs head against wall.

    Have fun supporting the drug trade by using cash.

    Ill leave you with a nice wee quote

    “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    Have fun in the stock markets. Its gona be like a bowel of rice krispies in the next few years.


  • #83
    Roonbox
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Roonbox


    zonEEE wrote: »
    /Bangs head against wall.

    Have fun supporting the drug trade by using cash.

    Ill leave you with a nice wee quote

    “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    Have fun in the stock markets. Its gona be like a bowel of rice krispies in the next few years.


    Have you a history in investing?


  • #84
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Spanish Harlem wrote: »
    There is an irrational fear of "the internet" carved profoundly into the psyche of Irish people over the age of 25. The same demographic who demanded action to prevent "Facebook rape" :rolleyes: I'm not sure why this is. I can only presume it's because they grew up without computers and the internet is not a physical entity. It can't be touched or seen. These same people have a deep distrust of cards and insist in paying for everything in cold hard cash.


    Some people would be happier carrying heavy bags of gold around to buy the bread and milk at the corner shop. Get with the times. Bitcoin is here to stay. Deal with it.

    Was have a casual and slightly bemused (mostly because I know nothing about bitcoins and probably do not feel the need to learn) read through this thread, and I came across this post which amused me. I am assuming that you are under 25. Just for your information, computers have been around for a good number of years, could have even been there before you were born. The internet isn't quite as old but it was in reasonably general use by the mid '90's when I first started using it, you would probably have been 1 or 2 at the time. What age roughly would you think those original internet users would be now, over 25? Sure there is a demographic left who didn't grow up with computers, but these are the people you should be talking to now to discover what life was really like before the War. For those of that demographic who didn't have experience with computers/internet there are a multitude of IT training courses (well attended but difficult to get on) throughout the country. A lot of these people have that new fangled stuff like bank accounts and debit/credit cards now as well. Scoff at the grey vote at your peril.

    Edit: I know a lad in his 60's who uses facebook, whatever next?


  • #85
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Having a cap prohibits usage as a global alternative currency.

    Being anonymous (and facilitating trade in illegal drugs) brings the attention and regulation of the authorities eventually.

    Bringing down a network is as easy as preventing access to the network.

    Nobody is suggesting it will replace conventional currency at this point, only you.

    It has long caught the attention of authorities who admit they can't do much about it. The cloaking client is largely funded by the US government who you can be sure won't be happy. As if they haven't already tried to shut it down.

    Brining down p2p based networks is tricky at best, that's before you have the added complexity of it all being cloaked.


  • #86
    Amberman
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Amberman


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    That volume issue could well be a product of both bubble mentality and a Ponzi structure.
    The government decisions that would concern me about impacting on bitcoin would be the overtly stated desire by both US and UK politicians to introduce regulation. Anyone who thinks they won't be able to is being foolish, I believe.
    If it's a Ponzi, getting in early will permit profit if you remember to get out before it pops. If it's a bubble, likewise, but you might have a little further to run.
    Fundamentally, it's meaningless to talk about value in relation to bitcoin, as they are even more notional than fiat currency. Their primary value currently is that they facilitate anonymous purchase of illicit drugs via the internet.
    Article from yesterday's Guardian makes some good points: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace

    I think far more standard fiat currencies facilitate the majority of drug purchases. Bitcoins share of the global drug market is a drop in the ocean. Would you suggest we stop using euros because people exchange them for drugs in far larger quantities...largely anonymously I might add?

    Infant, I cannot see what point you are making at all.


  • #87
    Amberman
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Amberman


    that will be the reason used by law enforcement to shut it down, presuming that it neither collapses under its own weight and that it is not actually a Ponzi. (Do YOU know who created and manages its architecture?)

    Clearly, you have some gaps in your understanding. On a decentralized peer to peer network, like bit torrent, it can't be shut down. They tried so hard to stop peer to peer file sharing networks and they have utterly failed. Even if they "turned off" the Internet, it would simply migrate to the dark web.

    It's USP is that it won't be inflated away or stolen by governments from accounts. They guy who created it and turned it loose has very sensibly walked away and let it take one life of its own. The exchanges can be regulated, but most already comply with anti-money laundering regs.

    The truth is that, for the first time in many years, people have woken up to the corruption of a fractional reserve system of money creation through debt. Bitcoin has no counter party risk, unlike traditional fiat currency, which is fraught with counter party risk.

    Some people are understandably hysterical these days about rapidly rising prices. With assets like housing or stocks, which have long established anchor values in costs of carry and rental yields, and can soar way above fail value for long periods of time, it's easy to scream bubble.

    Bitcoin on the other hand has no anchor value. It is a pure market and its price will be determined by supply and demand. Growing numbers of people getting their savings confiscated by bureaucrats will be very good for bitcoin...very good indeed.


  • #88
    Amberman
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Amberman


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Having a cap prohibits usage as a global alternative currency.

    Thats just silly, especially coming from an investor. Most successful investors I know are good at maths.

    Bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. you can own 0.00000001 bitcoins.

    Therefore, if one dollar equaled 0.00000001 bitcoins, you'd only need 10m bitcoins to cover a quadrillion dollars...or all the outstanding derivatives in the world today. So yes, it could potentially become a global currency. The maths allows for it.

    Not that I think it will become a global currency.


  • #89
    topcatcbr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    I am trying to understand how the "production" of bitcoin is limited. As they are virtual why can it not be limitless.


  • #90
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    topcatcbr wrote: »
    I am trying to understand how the "production" of bitcoin is limited. As they are virtual why can it not be limitless.

    It's pretty complicated but here is a hand-wavey explanation:
    It's limited by artificial work. Each block in the chain must join on to the next one, and only certain hash values work for this "join". To find the right hash value only brute-force computation works. The difficulty rises by adding an extra criteria, the hash must "join" the blocks and the hash must also be greater than a certain value.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function


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  • #91
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    An interesting article here. Thread cautiously.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/03/bitcoin-what-bubble-looks

    I had considered mining these a while back but the economics don't work. There's some interesting work going on to mine bitcoins. I'm a bit if a tech head though.


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