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How to cope with not being able to establish expectations with my mother's visits?

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

    You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

    I really think this is the best post on this thread. You are coming across as someone consumed by anger because people in your life won’t live up to standards you have set in your head. The two threads cannot he read in isolation. People are fallible humans they are not perfect beings who comply to standards set by others.

    I’m concerned at the amount of rage you seem to have bottled up collecting grudges about the behavior of various people in your life. You are coming across as being quite self-involved, I think you aren’t wrong to be hurt about certain things (not including your grandparents painting their sons house which is quite frankly very unreasonable), but you seem completely incapable of standing in anyone else’s shoes. You’re an adult & a parent, at this point in your life you should be capable of understanding that life is not black & white, & trying to understand where others are coming from.

    The person you seem to be hurting the most is you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    I really think this is the best post on this thread. You are coming across as someone consumed by anger because people in your life won’t live up to standards you have set in your head. The two threads cannot he read in isolation. People are fallible humans they are not perfect beings who comply to standards set by others.

    I’m concerned at the amount of rage you seem to have bottled up collecting grudges about the behavior of various people in your life. You are coming across as being quite self-involved, I think you aren’t wrong to be hurt about certain things (not including your grandparents painting their sons house which is quite frankly very unreasonable), but you seem completely incapable of standing in anyone else’s shoes. You’re an adult & a parent, at this point in your life you should be capable of understanding that life is not black & white, & trying to understand where others are coming from.

    The person you seem to be hurting the most is you.

    Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

    I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    That's a real shame. I completely understand where you're coming from as I went through similar.

    I am speaking from personal experience - I had a poor relationship with my own mother who has since passed. I was hurt and upset for YEARS! It messed me up in a lot of ways. I finally had to break the chains for the sake of my own mental health.

    I am telling you this as your anger and resentment are having an effect on your children and your family life. Believe me - as young as your kids are, they will be picking up the vibes you give off even if they do not as yet understand why.

    Finally - Have you spoken to your husband about this? What does he think??

    He agrees with me that my mother has been hurtful and behaved in ridiculous ways. He didn't like how she was stuck into her phone when her granddaughter was talking to her.

    It's just that he's not as emotionally affected by it because she's not his mother. She hasn't always treated him with respect either. He says he doesn't like or care about her.

    He also suggested a B&B but I don't even want to see her. I guess he could take the kids to see her down there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    chris525 wrote: »
    Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

    I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.

    It’s how the world works according to you. If people’s standards are ridiculous I for one would cut my losses.

    I’m sorry that the circumstances surrounding your birth were so complicated. You are clearly struggling to deal with them. Your father kept the fact that he had a child from his parents, he wouldn’t be the first, & it doesn’t change the fact that he is their son. News of your existence was no doubt a shock but your grandparents seem to be dealing with it well. If you want to risk your future relationship with them by making ridiculous demands that’s up to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    chris525 wrote: »
    Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

    Oh boy, OP!! People have told you the same thing at least once on this thread. Whether the grandparents want to paint their son's house or not, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! It's their money to spend as they choose! How do you know what's truth from what is not?
    chris525 wrote: »
    I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.

    Why? Who do you feel you have to do this? As long as you live within the law where you live and live a good life, that's the ONLY standard you have to live by!

    I'm not trying to down you, OP but I'm beginning to think you're being a bit of a victim here. It's not healthy or good for you and your family. Leave your father's family alone! Have nothing to do with them. It's becoming increasingly obvious that whatever they may or may not tell you, it won't be accepted by you unless or until they show as much anger towards your father as you apparently do.

    I'm out. I hope it works out for you.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Why do you think your mother should be a surrogate mother to your kids when she visits? ‘Minding’ them is not her job. Or her responsibility. And interaction is very dependent on personality and how often she sees them. Which I gather isn’t much.

    Not going to list out my familial relationships, but they’re based on who I like / enjoy spending time with. I’m not a handy child minder for people, despite me not being married or having kids. I’ve made that quite clear to my siblings, with some pushback on their part. To be blunt, their child is not my problem.

    You’ve never got on with your mother. Why on earth do you think she’s going to be a self-effacing grandmother? And you appear to want her to look after your children who she doesn’t even really know. If you don’t want her to stay as a genuine guest, then tell her that. That you only want her on your terms of child minding / helping out. Then she can make own choice and stay somewhere else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    Oh boy, OP!! People have told you the same thing at least once on this thread. Whether the grandparents want to paint their son's house or not, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! It's their money to spend as they choose! How do you know what's truth from what is not?



    Why? Who do you feel you have to do this? As long as you live within the law where you live and live a good life, that's the ONLY standard you have to live by!

    I'm not trying to down you, OP but I'm beginning to think you're being a bit of a victim here. It's not healthy or good for you and your family. Leave your father's family alone! Have nothing to do with them. It's becoming increasingly obvious that whatever they may or may not tell you, it won't be accepted by you unless or until they show as much anger towards your father as you apparently do.

    I'm out. I hope it works out for you.

    Yes, you have to live by standards. For example, you have to live by your employer's standards or else they will fire you. You have to avoid saying different things to different people or else you will hurt them.

    You have to behave in certain ways in certain situations or else people will be angry with you. It's common sense. You have to live up to your spouse's standards or you will both want a divorce. This is how life and relationships work.

    My father's family won't leave me alone. They keep emailing me and if I wait a week to email them back they don't like it. They were crying because I sent them a photo of me when I was 4. Well, this is their disgusting son's fault. I'll keep rubbing it in by sending them photos.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    Why do you think your mother should be a surrogate mother to your kids when she visits? ‘Minding’ them is not her job. Or her responsibility. And interaction is very dependent on personality and how often she sees them. Which I gather isn’t much.

    Not going to list out my familial relationships, but they’re based on who I like / enjoy spending time with. I’m not a handy child minder for people, despite me not being married or having kids. I’ve made that quite clear to my siblings, with some pushback on their part. To be blunt, their child is not my problem.

    You’ve never got on with your mother. Why on earth do you think she’s going to be a self-effacing grandmother? And you appear to want her to look after your children who she doesn’t even really know. If you don’t want her to stay as a genuine guest, then tell her that. That you only want her on your terms of child minding / helping out. Then she can make own choice and stay somewhere else.

    No, I don't expect her to be a surrogate mother. I expect her to be decent by looking up from her phone when her grandchildren are talking to her. I expect her to WANT to play with them and to WANT to interact with them.

    You don't go over to someone's house after they had a baby 2 weeks prior and not want to help out with chores etc. It's bad form.

    She treats me like a stranger and not like a daughter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Loveinapril


    It has been posted so many times and you are failing to absorb it. Read this over and over and spend time trying to accept it.

    You cannot change anyone else's behaviour. You can only change your own.

    Your posts are FULL of your expectations for others that that they cannot or will not reach. It really is your responsibility to manage that. You will not change other people, no matter how petulant you become.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    chris525 wrote: »
    No, I don't expect her to be a surrogate mother. I expect her to be decent by looking up from her phone when her grandchildren are talking to her. I expect her to WANT to play with them and to WANT to interact with them.

    You don't go over to someone's house after they had a baby 2 weeks prior and not want to help out with chores etc. It's bad form.

    She treats me like a stranger and not like a daughter.

    But this is exactly your problem - about both of your parents, and your grandparents. You will accept nothing less than them WANTING to do what you would do in the same scenario. Life does not work that way!

    You can tell them what you want. And they can choose to act on that or ignore it. And you can choose to accept their response, or cut them off.

    What you CANT do is expect them to be magically inspired to do what you want, and then get really angry when they don’t live up to this. You are just setting yourself up for a fall OP.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    And that's not going to change. No matter how much you want it to. The overriding message of the thread is that all you can control is your own behaviour. There's no point arguing the rights and wrongs with her it won't make any difference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    It has been posted so many times and you are failing to absorb it. Read this over and over and spend time trying to accept it.

    You cannot change anyone else's behaviour. You can only change your own.

    Your posts are FULL of your expectations for others that that they cannot or will not reach. It really is your responsibility to manage that. You will not change other people, no matter how petulant you become.

    You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    chris525 wrote: »
    You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.

    Then stop having a relationship with them.

    Or learn to manage your own expectations better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    Then stop having a relationship with them.

    Or learn to manage your own expectations better.

    It's just pretty sad that you can't even get some basic needs met by your own mother.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Loveinapril


    chris525 wrote: »
    You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.

    Exactly. You are totally correct. What is the obvious solution to this problem?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Clark Rotten Scalp


    chris525 wrote: »
    Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

    Why would you WANT your mother to come and spend time with your kids when she caused you so much hurt and has clearly demonstrated that she is she is not maternal and is quite self involved?

    Because she's family, and it's complicated. See how that works?

    I'm sorry for how distressing and complex your childhood was, and I am very angry on behalf of the little girl who never had an adult she could rely on to go to bat for her, to love her and be there for her unconditionally and consistently.

    But you are not that little girl anymore, you are an adult with children of your own and an ability to control your life. I know you're angry, how would you not be?

    But who is it helping? And if you're honest, who is it harming?

    You ARE NOT going to get closure over your early life from an external source like your mother or grandparents, and certainly not the kind you want. Whether or not your standards for how you want this all to play out are reasonable or justified actually doesn't hugely matter: they are unrealistic, they are not going to be met. Continuing to bang your head off that particular wall is not going to help and it's going to hurt you by keeping you stuck in this place of pain and rage.

    You actually have a great amount of power here though it might not feel like it. You can break this cycle of abandonment and emotional abuse and dysfunction, save yourself from having it poison the rest of your life and save your children from being hurt by it. Because I guarantee if you go on this angry and defensive and preoccupied with the past, they will be hurt.

    I'm not surprised and I don't blame you for being reflexively defensive given what you've been through, but try to resist that impulse and listen to what people are saying to you in the spirit it's intended, people are genuinely trying to help you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭DaeryssaOne


    chris525 wrote: »
    They were crying because I sent them a photo of me when I was 4. Well, this is their disgusting son's fault. I'll keep rubbing it in by sending them photos.

    OP do you realise that you're thinking/acting like a stroppy teenager who isn't getting their way? This martyrdom is tiresome and you're not willing to listen to any of the good advice that has been posted here.

    If you actually wanted a decent relationship with your grandparents you would understand that however badly your father has treated you, he is still their son and they aren't going to just disown him at this stage in life.

    You are also not accepting that your mother is not going to change and is not going to want to fawn all over your kids on her holiday. I think you should tell her now that you have very high standards of how you expect her to act if she comes to stay with you and let her make a decision from there about whether she is bothered trying to be a different person for the sake of some free accommodation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    Why would you WANT your mother to come and spend time with your kids when she caused you so much hurt and has clearly demonstrated that she is she is not maternal and is quite self involved?

    Because she's family, and it's complicated. See how that works?

    I'm sorry for how distressing and complex your childhood was, and I am very angry on behalf of the little girl who never had an adult she could rely on to go to bat for her, to love her and be there for her unconditionally and consistently.

    But you are not that little girl anymore, you are an adult with children of your own and an ability to control your life. I know you're angry, how would you not be?

    But who is it helping? And if you're honest, who is it harming?

    You ARE NOT going to get closure over your early life from an external source like your mother or grandparents, and certainly not the kind you want. Whether or not your standards for how you want this all to play out are reasonable or justified actually doesn't hugely matter: they are unrealistic, they are not going to be met. Continuing to bang your head off that particular wall is not going to help and it's going to hurt you by keeping you stuck in this place of pain and rage.

    You actually have a great amount of power here though it might not feel like it. You can break this cycle of abandonment and emotional abuse and dysfunction, save yourself from having it poison the rest of your life and save your children from being hurt by it. Because I guarantee if you go on this angry and defensive and preoccupied with the past, they will be hurt.

    I'm not surprised and I don't blame you for being reflexively defensive given what you've been through, but try to resist that impulse and listen to what people are saying to you in the spirit it's intended, people are genuinely trying to help you.

    I have this weird, stupid hope that someday, sometime something will happen to my mother and she'll have an epiphany and change. It's happened to me a few times in life maybe it could happen to her.

    Moving 500 km and then 8, 000 km away did help to break free of this. My maternal grandfather was good to me but he died when I was 21 and did not take actions against my mother when she was also screaming at him although he did not condone her actions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    OP do you realise that you're thinking/acting like a stroppy teenager who isn't getting their way? This martyrdom is tiresome and you're not willing to listen to any of the good advice that has been posted here.

    If you actually wanted a decent relationship with your grandparents you would understand that however badly your father has treated you, he is still their son and they aren't going to just disown him at this stage in life.

    You are also not accepting that your mother is not going to change and is not going to want to fawn all over your kids on her holiday. I think you should tell her now that you have very high standards of how you expect her to act if she comes to stay with you and let her make a decision from there about whether she is bothered trying to be a different person for the sake of some free accommodation.

    I am listening to the advice. I know they probably won't disown him but this is going to be an emotionally difficult place for me for a long time. They could at least criticize him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Accepting that someone isn't going to change is a big step to take. You aren't nearly there yet. Your mother sounds like a horrible person and maybe you shouldn't be exposing your own children to her?

    What do you think your grandfather should have done about your mother? Is this a mirror of why you're so angry with your father's parents? People who tolerated bad behaviour from their adult children.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525


    Accepting that someone isn't going to change is a big step to take. You aren't nearly there yet. Your mother sounds like a horrible person and maybe you shouldn't be exposing your own children to her?

    What do you think your grandfather should have done about your mother? Is this a mirror of why you're so angry with your father's parents? People who tolerated bad behaviour from their adult children.

    Well, she's 8, 000km away and most of her interactions with them are on Skype. Most of her future interactions will be brief visits in a hotel or outside where she won't be able to yell at anyone. She sends them money and birthday cards but when she's right in front of them she prefers all the Facebook likes she gets from photos of them.

    It's possible that it could be a mirror. My grandfather put up with a lot of bad behavior from my mother.

    For example, he would answer the phone and then forget who called (he was 70+) and instead of getting a new phone line or a different phone number she would yell at him. Sometimes he would insult her but most of the time he didn't do anything.

    I think my grandfather should have tried to get custody of me and got a babysitter to help (he could have reported my mother but he didn't). He should have also have told my father's parents about me as well. There was no reason not to tell them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lunamoon


    chris525 wrote: »
    I am listening to the advice. I know they probably won't disown him but this is going to be an emotionally difficult place for me for a long time. They could at least criticize him.

    And they very well might be criticising him, just not to you. It wouldn't be their place to do it in front of you either so stop expecting it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Clark Rotten Scalp


    chris525 wrote: »
    I have this weird, stupid hope that someday, sometime something will happen to my mother and she'll have an epiphany and change. It's happened to me a few times in life maybe it could happen to her.

    Yeah I understand that, I'd rather not go into it but I can definitely relate.

    But I think it would be good to weigh up what real difference that would bring to your life at this late stage, combined with what a long shot it is, against the torture of holding on to that hope in the face of all the evidence so far.
    Moving 500 km and then 8, 000 km away did help to break free of this. My maternal grandfather was good to me but he died when I was 21 and did not take actions against my mother when she was also screaming at him although he did not condone her actions.

    Well it's good you had somebody who at least tried and wasn't as bad as the rest, I'm sorry for your loss.

    Finding out your grandparents never knew about you and now want a relationship must have felt a bit like that distance was collapsing and you were being sucked back in, how were you doing with all this before that happened? When you started working on the genealogy thing and contacted them, what was it that motivated you? From my reading you thought they were fully aware of your existence and made no attempt at a relationship, I'm interested as to what your expectations were of people like that, was it a kind of "this is the least they can do for me" thing?

    I'm sorry I know this is the thread about your mother but I do agree the two issues need to be looked at together.

    This thing of them painting his house seems to be a real fixation, do you think it's possible that you're focusing on that because the situation is just too big to take in in its totality?

    Look, you're not obliged to have any kind of relationship with ANY of these people. I don't think anyone would blame you for at least maintaining strict boundaries and distance with your mother. And bollocks to your father as well, but for your own sake stop thinking of your nemesis, hating him, thinking about him so much. He's rent free in your head right now. The best revenge you can have on him is to let that go, don't waste any more thought on him if you can help it. Sometimes we can't help it, obviously it's not that you'll never think of him again.

    I'd personally be inclined to give your grandparents a bit more of a chance, but if you're going to do that you'll have to make peace with the fact that they'll continue to have a relationship with their son. I understand that's frustrating but that's what's on the table right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    chris525 wrote: »
    Yes, you have to live by standards. For example, you have to live by your employer's standards or else they will fire you. You have to avoid saying different things to different people or else you will hurt them.

    You have to behave in certain ways in certain situations or else people will be angry with you. It's common sense. You have to live up to your spouse's standards or you will both want a divorce. This is how life and relationships work.

    My father's family won't leave me alone. They keep emailing me and if I wait a week to email them back they don't like it. They were crying because I sent them a photo of me when I was 4. Well, this is their disgusting son's fault. I'll keep rubbing it in by sending them photos.

    Stranger and stranger . I mean this in the nicest possible way. You're beginning to sound seriously off-key, OP. Get help. For your own sake, get help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    OP your job now is to shield your own kids from your own, clearly chronic, mother/father issues. You sound like someone with a persecution complex. The more you post, the more you sound like the problem.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    chris525 wrote: »
    It's just pretty sad that you can't even get some basic needs met by your own mother.


    She sounds like she never met them, so you are hurting yourself by expecting her to meet your perception of a mother after all these years. She's not likely to meet the expectations you have of an ideal grandmother - and you should probably have a think about how it might affect your children to try to shoehorn them into some sort of forced grandma stereotype with an unwilling adult.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    It's the equivalent of having a crocodile as a family pet, pampering it and then wondering why it won't behave like a cat or a dog.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭chris525



    Finding out your grandparents never knew about you and now want a relationship must have felt a bit like that distance was collapsing and you were being sucked back in, how were you doing with all this before that happened? When you started working on the genealogy thing and contacted them, what was it that motivated you? From my reading you thought they were fully aware of your existence and made no attempt at a relationship, I'm interested as to what your expectations were of people like that, was it a kind of "this is the least they can do for me" thing?

    When I originally reached out to them I was expecting them to be angry and be like: wtf do you want. I only wanted some information about family medical info and family tree info. I wasn't expecting anything more than that.

    However, they jumped in immediately and wanted a relationship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I know your childhood was crap. But you can decide to wallow / be angry at the past, or try to move on.

    You are currently stuck in the wallowing / anger phase. You’re just hurting yourself, and also probably your partner and kids. You can chose to stay there, or get help to move out of that phase.

    I don’t think anyone on this thread said that you’re wrong to feel anger or resentment. But your method of dealing with it (or completely not dealing with it) is wrong for your own mental health, and relationships in your adult life.

    You need to move on not only for yourself, but also for your adult relationships in your life. The obsessing about your past is achieving nothing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I very deliberately posted the same reply to both of your threads. You describe different issues, but the root cause is the same.


This discussion has been closed.
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