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Age of consent for social media accounts?

2

Comments

  • #32
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The problem is all the companies in the chain from software to hardware and media producers have removed all means to control access to content from the end users.

    Take Netflix their profiles have no pin. Most age related filtering and controls across all services are abysmal and getting worse. Even TV doesn't always have age ratings

    Unless that changes you can't control it.


  • #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Fathom wrote: »
    Too late. The genie's out-of-the-bottle.

    Well no one is interested putting it back.


  • #34
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I don't think education will work either. They have deliberately confusticated and hidden the privacy and data collection controls and also constantly re arranged them. Specifically to make them impossible to control.

    Besides which there isnt the technical knowledge in schools or with parents to get over that hurdle. Most IT professionals are baffled by then also.


  • #35
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    I am uncertain if the OP has defined "age of consent." In terms of my reference to age of consent, I am referring to state and federal laws that specify a certain age before a citizen is allowed to do something; e.g. sign legally binding contracts, enlist in military, drink alcohol, etc.

    (Sorry about my delay in responding, but I have been having access problems to boards, and HQ has been working with me to solve them.)
    Good point. I was working off the French case, where the permission off ones parents is needed under 16. Possibly this might be something rather different to being the legal age to drink as it appears the parents are taking on the responsibility for signing off on their children's info (potentially) being used.


  • #36
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    beauf wrote: »
    I don't think education will work either. They have deliberately confusticated and hidden the privacy and data collection controls and also constantly re arranged them. Specifically to make them impossible to control.

    Besides which there isnt the technical knowledge in schools or with parents to get over that hurdle. Most IT professionals are baffled by then also.

    Education as means to understand media more is a good idea. You won't be able to do much about the privacy data part of things, but for more everyday web browsing you could. In the past it allowed young adults to critically examine the magazines and adverts targeted towards them more. On the digital front little has changed, it is a different medium, but the same messages are being thrown at them.


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  • #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    mzungu wrote: »
    Education as means to understand media more is a good idea. You won't be able to do much about the privacy data part of things, but for more everyday web browsing you could. In the past it allowed young adults to critically examine the magazines and adverts targeted towards them more. On the digital front little has changed, it is a different medium, but the same messages are being thrown at them.

    I think the point is that they've removed the control (even of "everyday browsing") out of everyone's hands by doing it by nefarious means without telling you.
    “Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for, in plain English, and repeatedly,” Jobs said. “Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data.” - Steve Jobs

    http://fortune.com/2018/03/28/steve-jobs-facebook-cambridge-analytica-privacy/


  • #38
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Fathom wrote: »
    Data means profits. Providing free access is not free. Is it a fair exchange?

    Depends if they are transparent about what the deal is. Thus far they haven't been. Which suggests they know it's not right.

    GDPR will make this a lot more interesting.


  • #39
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Watched part of Mark Zukerburg's testimony before the US Senate today. Facebook transparency was a major issue. Only a couple Senators tried to pin him down. Each asked 4 minutes of questions. Republican. Democrat. Republican. Democrat. Ted Cruz (Republican of Texas) was posturing. Advancing his campaign agenda. Not really interested in Zukerburg's replies.

    What transparency? Did Cambridge Analytica sell the 80 million plus FB member data base to the Russians? Zukerburg could not answer. Zukerburg waited 2 years to let members know that member data was compromised. What does that tell you about FB? Obvious that FB lost control of data for most of their member accounts. Zukerburg admitted that he was cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller.

    Makes me wonder when Trump will fire Mueller? Just like Richard Nixon did during Watergate. Trump's private attorney's records have been raided and confiscated. Is the noose tightening about the president's neck?
    Exactly. The performance in front of the senate seems to have taken the heat off FB for the time being. The question is, do we really know all that much more now than we did last week? Sure, everybody that needed to look tough for their voter base got their chance to look tough. Zuckerberg did the contrite routine to appeal to the Facebook user base etc.

    Was it convincing though? Personally would say at this point no. Zuckerberg wasn't exactly facing any tough questions, and besides, how many asking the questions would have the knowledge required to really go toe to toe with him?


  • #40
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Obviously. FB stock rebounded. Zuckerburg now 3 billion richer. "Money talks..."

    Crocodile tears.

    Kamala Harris asked (former) Attorney General questions. But only had 4 minutes.


    Exactly.
    Calls for Zuckerberg to testify in front of EU lawmakers. No idea if he will do it but considering FB username is worldwide it might not look the best if he decides not to. In this case I would prefer those asking the questions to have expertise in the area, otherwise it would be meaningless PR.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-asked-to-testify-in-front-of-eu.html


  • #41
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    EU has regulations. Wonder if FB broke any? As pertains to age of consent?
    Not sure on that front, but possibly the only thing broken was the spirit of the law...which won't result in anything more than a telling off!
    Fathom wrote: »
    Same tune, 2nd verse. (US then EU)
    Stage managed so. Might as well head to the theatre, at least there are no pretences that it's real!


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  • #42
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Zuckerburg did not suspend my disbelief.

    An old speechwriter of his said that “companies over countries” was Zuckerberg's motto once upon a time.

    Link: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/4/11/17221344/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-cambridge-analytica


  • #43
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Corporate globalization.

    Aye, until the next scandal about harvesting data comes around, I feel they have done enough to get through it this time. But questions remain and won't be going away any time soon.


  • #44
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Predicts sweeping under carpet.

    Aye, however the past few weeks will have given them food for thought. They might have sailed on this time, but things do eventually reach a breaking point. Social media can easily move away from Facebook, same as Bebo and MySpace are now ghost towns. Interesting times ahead.


  • #45
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Social media transforming? [/quote[
    Definitely.
    Fathom wrote: »
    Extinct eventually? Replaced?
    I doubt in my lifetime anyway!
    Fathom wrote: »
    Or evolved? Herbert Spencer "survival of fittest?"
    This. It will evolve and with AI technology and VR it will offer new kinds of spaces. Changes coming in might be slow, but that is no harm either.


  • #46
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Occasional quantum leaps?

    It will be a slow burner I would say. Much more profitable.


  • #47
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Reflecting. Social media accounts. Age of consent practical? Too many ways to circumvent? CYA for social media providers?

    To hand over data to social media companies there probably should be some kind of age limitation, however it is still unworkable. Short of doing something like credit card charging for social media accounts, there is little that can be done.


  • #48
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Children pay the piper? Data for free access too? Hope piper doesn't lead them astray.
    As we don't pay for the service (social media), then it follows that we will be the product!


  • #49
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    No pay. No play. Products we are. No matter age of consent.

    The proposed change of age of consent to 16 has been defeated and will stay at 13 years.

    Link: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/common-sense-has-prevailed-on-digital-age-of-consent-1.3482066


  • #50
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Anyone who thinks the likes of facebook don't know very quickly the real age of all its users needs to read up on data analytics. It is easy for some of the richest companies in the world to enforce age limits but it will cost them.


  • #51
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    AlanG said:
    Anyone who thinks the likes of facebook don't know very quickly the real age of all its users needs to read up on data analytics.
    Indeed.


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  • #52
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Magic number?

    Not quite. Schools, academics, child psychologists, advocacy groups want 16 whereas companies and vested interests want the age to be 13.

    Hopefully they go with 16 but it appears to be in the balance.


  • #53
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,410 ✭✭✭political analyst


    http://www.thejournal.ie/digital-age-of-consent-3-4017307-May2018/
    Basically, companies won’t be able to store and process the data of people under the age of 16.

    This relates mainly to targeting and advertising to children. Big tech companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter will now be able to collect the personal data of children under this age.

    Practically, it means that children won’t have full access to a large number of websites, as they won’t be able to legally consent to their terms and conditions.

    (Of course, there’s nothing stopping people lying about their age to set up a social media account, which is one of the reasons groups supported a lower age)

    Why don't social media organisations vet young people who want to set-up accounts on them to try to determine whether or not they're under-age?


  • #54
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    mzungu wrote: »
    Not quite. Schools, academics, child psychologists, advocacy groups want 16 whereas companies and vested interests want the age to be 13.

    Hopefully they go with 16 but it appears to be in the balance.

    Update: they have gone with 16 after opposition TDs instead voted in favour of a Labour and Fianna Fáil amendment to set the digital age of consent at 16.


  • #55
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    If parents or guardians are allowed to provide approval for their children to have under age 16 access to social media, to what extent to these approving parties have to surrender their rights to privacy?


  • #56
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    If parents or guardians are allowed to provide approval for their children to have under age 16 access to social media, to what extent to these approving parties have to surrender their rights to privacy?

    If they have signed up to it already they already have (to an extent) whether they know it or not.


  • #57
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,218 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Does a 16 age of consent to access social media suggest "one shoe size fits all?"


  • #58
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Does a 16 age of consent to access social media suggest "one shoe size fits all?"

    It does, but then again, I don't think there can be another way. Most age limits are a "one size fits all" solution. Eg, some 18 year olds may be mature enough to drink alcohol whereas some 25 year olds are not!


  • #59
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Subjective qualitative data. Not quantitative measurements of children by age?


    Individual differences not explained by a fixed age 16.

    Can it go any other way, though? Has anywhere else tried the above, and if so did it work?


  • #60
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Individual differences threshold? Not likely. Too expensive. Labor intensive.

    Exactly.


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  • #61
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Leads to Durkheim's alienation?

    Perhaps it already has!


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