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28-01-2013, 10:01   #1
ScaniaIrizar
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4EUFAM Visa/Residency Card

Hi all,

I'd appreciate some help with this if possible.

I am an Irish citizen, but currently living in Russia. My wife is a Russian citizen and we want to be able to travel to Ireland without the hassle of a visa each time - the process is long and idiotic at times. So some questions:

1. Can she apply for a 4EUFAM card, even though I am not exactly resident in Ireland? (I have been living here since the end of 2011 - no P60 of late, no payslips etc)

2. If not, is there a more convenient way rather than taking a visa each time?Surely in this day and age, there must be an easier way.

We are legally married (although I suppose this fact isn't registered in Ireland as we married in Russia).

We have no intention of living in Ireland, I have settled exceptionally well here and love it!

Any help would be appreciated as the embassy in Moscow are unclear, and INIS website is a joke
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28-01-2013, 10:15   #2
seanmacc
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My wife is a U.S citizen and we were living in the US up until 2008.

When we moved back to Ireland all it took was a morning in the INIS office on Burgh Quay with the two of us, our passports, marriage certs, birth certs and a few simple questions and she was given a Stamp 4 GNIB card. GNIB card makes it easy for her to get through immigration in Dublin Airport and should alleviate the need for a visa. My wife doesn't even get her passport stamped when she comes back to Dublin any more. Bear in mind that she is not supposed to be using it in this way. It is a permanent residence card and you need to at least come here to get it.

You will not get a 4EUFAM stamp on your card as that is for the non EEA spouses of Non-Irish EU citizens. We learned the difference between Stamp 4 and 4EUFAM when my missus started College here. A 4EUFAM stamp gets you free fees whereas a Stamp 4 gets you EU fees. There are probably a number of other instances where there is a difference between the two stamps but the reason for the difference is that they can't discriminate or create barriers against a EU citizens right to move across the union but the can create a barrier against an Irish citizens staying in Ireland
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28-01-2013, 10:32   #3
ScaniaIrizar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmacc View Post
It is a permanent residence card and you need to at least come here to get it.

You will not get a 4EUFAM stamp on your card as that is for the non EEA spouses of Non-Irish EU citizens. We learned the difference between Stamp 4 and 4EUFAM when my missus started College here. A 4EUFAM stamp gets you free fees whereas a Stamp 4 gets you EU fees.
So there is even confusion about the type of Stamp one needs!

If a residency card isn't supposed to be used that way, why does it work?
It's great that your missus was able to come so easily but I'm sure it'll be harder for a Russian citizen than a US citizen. Even the visa applications required us to show photos together etc, idiotic stuff designed to weed out sham marriages that leave no room to move for us genuine cases.

It's not even about the free visas, it is just the convenience. I'll have Russian residency in 2 months and I'll be able to travel freely between the two countries. I would like the same for my wife. We can get a Schengen visa with no problems to associated countries, yet it is my own fookin' homeland that causes the greatest difficulty.

There is no clear policy on this, I just want to know! Thanks again!
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28-01-2013, 10:46   #4
seanmacc
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Originally Posted by ScaniaIrizar View Post
So there is even confusion about the type of Stamp one needs!

If a residency card isn't supposed to be used that way, why does it work?
It's great that your missus was able to come so easily but I'm sure it'll be harder for a Russian citizen than a US citizen. Even the visa applications required us to show photos together etc, idiotic stuff designed to weed out sham marriages that leave no room to move for us genuine cases.

It's not even about the free visas, it is just the convenience. I'll have Russian residency in 2 months and I'll be able to travel freely between the two countries. I would like the same for my wife. We can get a Schengen visa with no problems to associated countries, yet it is my own fookin' homeland that causes the greatest difficulty.

There is no clear policy on this, I just want to know! Thanks again!
With her being Russian it probably will cause problems alright. You'll probably need a certified translation of the marriage cert. But we seriously were in and out of Burgh Quay in two hours. Also bear in mind that the 1st GNIB Stamp 4 card they will give you is only for 1 year.

You are not supposed to use them as a way of not having to get a visa, although you pretty much can. Last year I had to give up my US Green Card for the same reasons. If you're not living in the country, you're not supposed to have it.
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28-01-2013, 10:52   #5
ScaniaIrizar
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I just called the embassy again, and got the same story. I'll have to get my parents to write an invitation letter as I am not recently resident in Ireland...it is stupid!! Proof of this required, proof of that required!

I think it really is easier in the short term just to go through this process.

We'll look into the GNIB card though, it could be very handy!
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28-01-2013, 10:59   #6
ResearchWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaniaIrizar View Post
I just called the embassy again, and got the same story. I'll have to get my parents to write an invitation letter as I am not recently resident in Ireland...it is stupid!! Proof of this required, proof of that required!

I think it really is easier in the short term just to go through this process.

We'll look into the GNIB card though, it could be very handy!
It is simple your wife has no rights to any resideny card in ireland for the simple reson she or you are not resident here. She is a visa required national and so for each visit will requires visa, don't worry after the first couple it will be very simple.

In relation to the letter it's just to prove ye are visiting family, yes it's a pain, but its the way the system works. As I said after the first few it will become standard and easy.

If ye decide to move to the EU excluding Ireland then she will have 1 the right to enter, 2 the right to EU residency. If ye move to ireland to live then she will need a visa and then she can make an application for stamp 4 based on marriage (if ye have been visiting for a number of years that process will be easy).
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28-01-2013, 11:37   #7
tatli_lokma
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Whilst I do understand your frustration, I am inclined to agree with Research Will. Why would you think you are entitled to a residency card, when neither of you are resident? Myself and my husband have been through the process of getting residency for him, and it takes long enough without the waiting times being made longer by people applying for something they are not entitled to simply to make visiting Ireland easier.

As mentioned, the more often you apply, get a visa and show that you have obeyed the conditions of that visa, the quicker and eaiser it is each time.

And as I say, I do appreciate the frustration of it, as we need to apply for a visa if we want to travel anywhere in Schengen, and it is a pain. Even when just transiting via Belfast we had to get a UK tourist visa. Total pain. But them's da rules. If we had a 4EUFAM visa we wouldn't have to do that. It feels a bit unfair as I am an EU national, all be it an Irish EU national. But unless Ireland join Schengen (unlikely and even more so now if Britain leaves the EU) then we just have to get on with it as it stands. We are applying for citizenship for my hubby now, so hopefully if he gets it we won't have to apply for a visa for every trip abroad.
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28-01-2013, 11:59   #8
ScaniaIrizar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResearchWill View Post
It is simple your wife has no rights to any resideny card in ireland for the simple reson she or you are not resident here. She is a visa required national and so for each visit will requires visa, don't worry after the first couple it will be very simple.

In relation to the letter it's just to prove ye are visiting family, yes it's a pain, but its the way the system works. As I said after the first few it will become standard and easy.

If ye decide to move to the EU excluding Ireland then she will have 1 the right to enter, 2 the right to EU residency. If ye move to ireland to live then she will need a visa and then she can make an application for stamp 4 based on marriage (if ye have been visiting for a number of years that process will be easy).
I understand that, thanks for the information. But we don't want a resident card..I want to be able to take my wife to my country without the idiotic process involved in applying for a visa. I do the same here every 3 months but I am at least entitled to reside here because I have a Russian spouse.
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28-01-2013, 12:02   #9
ScaniaIrizar
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Originally Posted by Little Ted View Post
Whilst I do understand your frustration, I am inclined to agree with Research Will. Why would you think you are entitled to a residency card, when neither of you are resident? Myself and my husband have been through the process of getting residency for him, and it takes long enough without the waiting times being made longer by people applying for something they are not entitled to simply to make visiting Ireland easier.

As mentioned, the more often you apply, get a visa and show that you have obeyed the conditions of that visa, the quicker and eaiser it is each time.

And as I say, I do appreciate the frustration of it, as we need to apply for a visa if we want to travel anywhere in Schengen, and it is a pain. Even when just transiting via Belfast we had to get a UK tourist visa. Total pain. But them's da rules. If we had a 4EUFAM visa we wouldn't have to do that. It feels a bit unfair as I am an EU national, all be it an Irish EU national. But unless Ireland join Schengen (unlikely and even more so now if Britain leaves the EU) then we just have to get on with it as it stands. We are applying for citizenship for my hubby now, so hopefully if he gets it we won't have to apply for a visa for every trip abroad.
Again, residency card not wanted..just a hassle free way to be able to visit my country with my wife. I thought a 4EUFAM card would sort this but as posters aboove pointed out, it isn't viable in our circumstances. As a citizen of Ireland (who paid taxes for many years!), I wish there would be a proper method for dealing with this.
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28-01-2013, 12:09   #10
ResearchWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaniaIrizar View Post
Again, residency card not wanted..just a hassle free way to be able to visit my country with my wife. I thought a 4EUFAM card would sort this but as posters aboove pointed out, it isn't viable in our circumstances. As a citizen of Ireland (who paid taxes for many years!), I wish there would be a proper method for dealing with this.
While EUFAM4 card would fix your problems it is a residency card it's a stamp 4 which is a residency permission. It is also only available to EU citizen not to an Irish citizen as an Irish citizen is not exercising treaty rights in ireland.
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28-01-2013, 12:39   #11
tatli_lokma
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I was just going on your first post which says

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaniaIrizar
1. Can she apply for a 4EUFAM card, even though I am not exactly resident in Ireland? (I have been living here since the end of 2011 - no P60 of late, no payslips etc)
from this I got the impression you were asking would you be able to apply for a residence permit despite not being resident, hence my reply.

If you are not looking for a residence permit, then the answer to your question is very simple - no on all accounts. She will need to apply for a visa for every visit. A pain, but that's the way it is.
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28-01-2013, 15:40   #12
ScaniaIrizar
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Ok, thank you to both for the information above (and indeed to all for all the details). And sorry for the confusion!
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28-01-2013, 15:53   #13
seanmacc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaniaIrizar View Post
Ok, thank you to both for the information above (and indeed to all for all the details). And sorry for the confusion!
It would make life easier for you if they did a visa like the US does for spouses of US citizens. I can get a 5 year travel visa which means I can travel over there anytime as long as I don't stay over 90 days and can be extended (unlike the Visa Waiver program)
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31-08-2013, 16:51   #14
ebjarrell
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I'm a bit perturbed about the Stamp 4 and Stamp 4 EUFAM as well. I'm a U.S. citizen married to an Irish national. We went down to GNIB on Burgh Quay and were in and out with my Stamp 4 in a few hours; that was in 2006. Now I'm applying for college and got accepted to Trinity College. I was trying to get a Stamp 4 EUFAM but was told I didn't meet the criteria for that. If I was a U.S. citizen married to say a Polish national or U.K. national and moved to Ireland then I would qualify. I don't see how and why the spouse of an Irish national is seen as "less" than the spouse of an EU national but living in Ireland.
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31-08-2013, 17:18   #15
tatli_lokma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebjarrell View Post
I'm a bit perturbed about the Stamp 4 and Stamp 4 EUFAM as well. I'm a U.S. citizen married to an Irish national. We went down to GNIB on Burgh Quay and were in and out with my Stamp 4 in a few hours; that was in 2006. Now I'm applying for college and got accepted to Trinity College. I was trying to get a Stamp 4 EUFAM but was told I didn't meet the criteria for that. If I was a U.S. citizen married to say a Polish national or U.K. national and moved to Ireland then I would qualify. I don't see how and why the spouse of an Irish national is seen as "less" than the spouse of an EU national but living in Ireland.
It's to do with Ireland not being part of Schengen and also when in Ireland and Irish person cannot exercise their treaty rights. If you were married to an Irish person living in Poland then they could.
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