US losing to China in scientific research!

The claim of Chinese superiority is rooted in myth. The Chinese have been around since forever, and still haven't gotten their act together. A millennium from now, they'll still be caught up in internal chaos. China is China.

Overheal wrote: »

That would have been like asking Khrushchev over to a white house for a beer during the missile crisis.

He proably would have jumped at the chance!:)

Overheal wrote: »

/shrug

It's hard not to salt the criticisms of the same demographic that thinks the earth is 6000 years old.

Nice try. I'm not with that rabble, either. I have a brain, and I use it. I have freedom, and I use that, too. You're in Obama's pocket, and there's no chance of luring you out. Therefore, I choose not to waste my precious time.

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that would suggest that I am in Obama's pocket or do you just automagically assume anybody who doesn't agree with your "philosophy" must clearly be sleeping with "the enemy"

There is so much ideological feuding over Obama right now, that for anyone to demand any single person 'tangibly prove' anything about him is preposterous. Just turn on the news, for crying out loud. Be honest -- I could post a ton of supporting evidence, and you'd reject it all, out of hand. That's Obama -- he's polarizing to the max. One either loves or hates him.

PopeUrbanII wrote: »

Half of America believes as I do. That's a lot of people who need to present 'more evidence', isn't it?;) Moreover, as a European, you've been conditioned by decades of Socialism to see life through the 'diet variety lense' of economic Marxism. Of course you therefore view Obama as a something of a hero. That, and the fact he's our first Black President plays well to raw emotions about 'racist' America. That must weigh heavily in Ireland's collective judgment of Obama. Needless to say, none of the above corresponds with much of American cultural and political sentiment. By no means am I alone in feeling what I feel.

well to paraphase G W Bush's comment at a White house press dinner.
{I know this will upset You and Amerika}

"Some people call Me arrogant,I will not dignify {your post} those comments with a reply!"

Overheal wrote: »

Terrorists definitely won on that score. With one short series of attacks they've dragged a leading superpower into an unwinnable war, chipped away at its security and greatly depleted its economy. On the world stage the USA is now one of the most populously-hated nations on the planet.

How people think we can win our position back by plunging deeper into middle eastern countries and waging a war on terror is absolutely beyond me.

So if anyone destroyed America: it was the Bush Administration, playing right into Al Quaeda 's hand.

Unwinnable i agree,but containment was surely nescessary after 9/11?
It may be the only solution in the end.
VP Biden favoured a policy of containment over the troop surge.
A 'Hit and Run policy' from secured base's using more technology but troops not out on patrol anywhere near as much.
The troops are sitting ducks now to Afghanistan troops who are meant to be training to allow Afghanistan police itself,as the latest tactic by the Taliban is to sign up for training and after a while Killing the people who are meant to be training them.

Remy13 wrote: »

while the United States embraces Palinish anti-intellectualism, dumbs down textbooks so Texans can read them, and debates creationism as historical fact, China is spending billions on becoming the leading scientific powerhouse in the world.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/27/AR2010062703639.html?hpid=moreheadlines

I'm writing this from Hong Kong, where from my one side of my window I can see dozens of cargo ships lined up in the harbor, and the other side a massive high speed rail complex under construction - not to mention the overwhelming sense of optimism and energy everywhere I go. I hate to say it, but Spacedog is absolutely right. I hope we can turn things around in the next 20 years, but every time I go home, I am less sure that it will happen.

To be honest, while I find the Texas school board/evolution crowd appalling, that debate has been going on in the US for a century, and in the meantime, innovation rolled on, unabated. However, innovation and risk-taking in the US has always relied heavily on absorbing the cream of the crop from other countries, whether it was letting in Jewish refugees from Europe, or welcoming the world's best graduate students and researchers with open arms. Frankly, if we had to solely rely on the native population - especially in tech industries - we'd be toast, which is why our current immigration policies for highly skilled workers and graduates are particularly galling.

That said, I think the Chinese case is troubling for several reasons. First, as the article points out, there is little concern for ethics, whether it is respecting human subjects norms, patent laws, or clinical trial procedures. Anecdotally, several of my housemates in Boston were biomedical researchers, and questionable practices and plagiarism were a constant problem with China-based researchers. Second, funding for basic research is an issue: in the US, we have totally bought into the idea that the private sector will do everything, but the reality is that in the 1950s and 1960, a lot of basic lab research was government funded through universities, and then private interests figured out how to take these ideas to market. The Chinese (and the Koreans, and the Germans, etc etc) unabashedly see scientific research and education as something that is in the national interest, and that the government should be involved in. Related to that point is the issue of how grant writing works in the US today: because everything has to be measured via 'metrics' and is overly rationalized, researchers are basically expected to know their results when they are applying for grants - which is of course impossible. So instead of funding creating opportunities for innovation and experimentation, it instead narrows the focus of research agendas, which is extremely detrimental in the long term. The fact that in China the guidelines for grants are less rigid makes it an attractive place to do research - but then of course you run into the issues mentioned above.

I still think that the business environment in the US is far superior to that in China, especially when it comes to setting up a business and intellectual property laws; there have been a spate of recent articles chronicling the misadventures of Indians and Chinese who were educated in the US, worked there for a while, and then returned home to a nightmare of red tape and poor infrastructure. But we are rapidly losing a lot of tacit knowledge within the manufacturing industry, and increasingly losing the engineers and entrepreneurs who form the backbone of the tech industry. And unfortunately we think it is better to debate whether or not Obama is a fascist Marxist Muslim rather than having a broader debate about the future of the economy and America's role in the world in the 21st century. I think every member of Congress should have to spend a month in Asia and maybe Northern Europe to get a sense of what our competitors are doing - then maybe they could begin to start thinking about the national interest, rather than what will play well on Fox News or the blogosphere. Unfortunately, if they aren't willing to engage these issues, an increasing number of skilled workers and industries, both American and foreign, will simply vote with their feet.

ynotdu wrote: »

Not to nit-pick but before Englands 'Lease' of Hong Kong came to an end Chris Patton negotiated a deal with China that Hong Kong would remain as it was with the Chinese Leadership,a deal China has honored.

True, but most of the shipping through Hong Kong is coming from the mainland these days; almost all of the manufacturing has moved across the border. And Beijing is pouring money into infrastructure here; I'm right next to the construction site for the new high speed rail link to the mainland. Unfortunately, I also know I'm in China based on the smog.

ynotdu wrote: »

BTW,from America to Spain to Ireland and now Hong Kong......erm exactly what Crime did You commit and Who is after You:eek:

LOL!!! Let's just say I am voting with my feet - as have many of my friends and family, who now have lovely apartments in far flung places...Lucky for me, they like having visitors.