Originally Posted by average_runner
Before I say this i aint a FF
Ireland is not the only economy to of crash, so while some of it is FF fault not all of it is.
FG destroyed Irish life in the 80's, ask anyone who went thru the 80's under FG. They did nothing for job creation, borrowed millions that we the tax payer paid back in the boom.
Life is a funny thing but this is just history repeating itself, all the parties are the same and dont fool yourself thinking they arent.
Did you live through the 80s or are you just listening to some people talk about it ?
And I bet they were ff people at that.
FG/Lab might not have made much of a difference because guess what ff under haughey kept snapping at their heels and would not acknowlegde how deep a hole the country was in.
Secondly ff only make a difference after 1987 because FG led by Alan Dukes agreed to support the government if they made sensible economic decisions.
It finished his political career but it helped save the country.
Oh and for starters the economic destruction of the 80s was caused by a vote buying ff government under one jack lynch in 1977, which just goes to show what happens when ff get an overall majority.
Removal of household rates, car tax and the like screwed this country dearly.
To this day he has casued untold damage to local councils with his removal of household rates.
For some one that claims they are not ff your arguments sound like the ff bible, starting with the usual mantra of the world economy crashed, ff are not entirely to blame and ending with the old "sure they are all as bad as each other".
Originally Posted by yop
I am beginning to believe this also to be honest, I think they all sup from the same pot which the tax payer boils, even the opposition get big salaries and big perks.
I can't off the top of my head think of anything which the opposition have stood up for us of late and got pushed through. Even the 2 weeks holidays they barely murmured a call to not take the 2 weeks.
The opposition from what I can see are there for the theater effect, in essence dont do anything but have to be there.
They are as removed from reality as the muppets who are in power.
The big problem with our democracy is the whip system which means that FG nor Labour can't do a lot, once ff keep their backbenchers in line and ff lite (formerly known as the Green Party) and a couple of independents bought off.
They just do not have the numbers.
Thus they can't get anything pushed through as you put it.
Sometimes I think that they should ask the people onto the streets.
But it is a dangerous game to play if you are a democratically elected politican believing in the rule of law and order, and secondly maybe they know us Irish are very hard to unite behind anything that doesn't benefit us personally.
Originally Posted by woodseb
when's the first time it happened?
it might help the discussion if you didn't resort to ridiculous hyperbole....
But it is a rdiculous situation to find ourselves in, so maybe it does deserve some hyperbole.
Have you ever stood back and thought that we are committiing anything up to 70 billion euro into saving a financial institution that was morally bankrupt a long time ago, only lent to a few high net worth connected individuals primarily involved in construction, had only a limited number of normal customers and to most people was a non systemic institution ?
Look at the cost of saving IN.
Trying to rationalise spending that proportion of our GNP on these failed entreprise and trying to justify why every baby born in this country today comes into the world saddled with something like a €5,000 bill due to these failed entreprises is ridiculous to start with in my mind.