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Shock Collars

  • 23-03-2010 5:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭


    for all you that use shock collars, or are thinking of using shock collars, take a look at this link.

    Shock collars are, in my opinion, not the way to go, invest some bonding time and train your dog instead, dont take the lazy option!!

    Mod note - be warned photos of damage done to dogs in link

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=141862&id=59639020615&ref=nf


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭morganafay


    Poor dog :( I don't know why anyone would use them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭kildara


    They are now banned in Wales (link)

    In case you can't click it (From The Telegraph):
    Electric shock dog collars banned in Wales
    Pet owners now face a fine of up to £20,000 or six months in prison is they are caught using the devices, which animal welfare groups say are cruel.
    The move has been backed by the Kennel Club and the RSPCA, but the Electronic Collars Manufacturer's Association raised fears that the ban could cause an influx of umanageable pets into shetlers.
    The collars are used to train dogs and cats by giving an electric shock when they misbehave. There are thought to be around 500,000 of the devices in the UK, around 20,000 of which are in Wales.
    The RSPCA said shock collars should have no place in modern animal training and recommended the use of reward-based methods instead.
    Members of the Kennel Club staged a display of support outside the Senedd in Cardiff Bay before the vote.
    Elin Jones, the Welsh rural affairs minister who announced plans for the ban last month, said she was "very pleased" that it had been passed.
    A spokesman for the UK's Department for Environment and Rural Affairs said ministers may decide on a country-wide ban if research which is currently underway proves that the collars are harmful to animals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    I've used one on my dog for 7 years and he has no marks on his neck. The collar very rarely shocks him because it gives him a warning beep and it vibrates as he approaches the wire. And without the collar he would have little or no freedom during the day when nobody is home. I think they're a great idea when used properly. If you look online you can find picture to prove anything is dangerous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭CreedonsDogDayc


    of course every time someone uses a shock collar on their dog, the above isnt going to happen, but it has the POTENTIAL to happen.

    You used shock collars for 7 years and nothing bad happened, thats good, im glad it didnt, but in my opinion its too much of a risk to take, and im a firm believer in positive reinforcement training and i believe that giving my dog an electric shock to teach it something is like pinching a three year old every time she does something she shouldnt, in the hope that eventually when i show her my hand shell stop what shes doing!!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Two different kinds of shocking thingies being talked about here

    1) electronic fences
    Used properly, with the correct training according to the instructions (training takes several weeks!) the dog gets shocked once, gets the message and stays away from the perimeter. Fitted and set properly there also shouldn't be any other side effect.
    This yokes have many flaws and I'm no fan of them, but they are not cruel.

    2) electronic remote control "training aides"
    These are the proper shock collars ...your dog doesn't do what you expected it to do ...zapp it with the press of a button ...and if you feel like it, just zapp it again ..and again, and again. In the wong hands these things can kill. In most hands they are cruel and counter productive and even in expert hands they produce mixed results at best


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    peasant wrote: »
    Two different kinds of shocking thingies being talked about here

    1) electronic fences
    Used properly, with the correct training according to the instructions (training takes several weeks!) the dog gets shocked once, gets the message and stays away from the perimeter. Fitted and set properly there also shouldn't be any other side effect.
    This yokes have many flaws and I'm no fan of them, but they are not cruel.

    2) electronic remote control "training aides"
    These are the proper shock collars ...your dog doesn't do what you expected it to do ...zapp it with the press of a button ...and if you feel like it, just zapp it again ..and again, and again. In the wong hands these things can kill. In most hands they are cruel and counter productive and even in expert hands they produce mixed results at best

    They might be 2 different types, but they still shock and are cruel in my opinion and not necessary for anywhere in the dog world if you ask me.

    They are banned in Wales which says something.

    I think they are a lazy way out for dog owners and def not safe either. There are plenty more humane and safer ways to control your dog.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    andreac wrote: »
    They might be 2 different types, but they still shock and are cruel in my opinion and not necessary for anywhere in the dog world if you ask me.
    In case of the fence, it's main function is to beep or vibrate to indicate the border. The shock only happens when the border is breached. If the training is done properly, the dog only gets shocked once, ever.
    andreac wrote: »
    They are banned in Wales which says something.
    Wales is banning the electronic training aides (and rightly so). They are not exactly pioneers in this either.
    andreac wrote: »
    I think they are a lazy way out for dog owners and def not safe either. There are plenty more humane and safer ways to control your dog.
    For the training aides...absolutely.
    For the fence ..yes, there as well. But not everybody can afford to fence their area, especially not when it is big. And it is debatable what is more humane ...to train your dog properly and let it run on half an acre with a radio fence and collar or to lock it up in a cage (aka "dog run") for hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Peasant, a dog doesnt spend his whole day running around so there is no need for a dog to have free access to a huge area when the owner is not around.

    Most dogs chill out and sleep when the owner is not around so there is no need for a dog to have a huge area to roam freely so therefore they do not need constant access to a huge garden.

    Once they are getting enough exercise when you are around then a nice comfortable safe area is more than adequate for them.

    An electric fence is just not a safe and secure option and its too risky if you ask me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    andreac wrote: »
    Peasant, a dog doesnt spend his whole day running around so there is no need for a dog to have free access to a huge area when the owner is not around.

    Most dogs chill out and sleep when the owner is not around so there is no need for a dog to have a huge area to roam freely so therefore they do not need constant access to a huge garden.

    You are of course correct in what you're saying, still there are some advantages to having a large space as opposed to a run only:
    - you can excercise your dogs there (if needs must) without having to go somewhere else
    - you can let your dog out there for unscheduled or urgent toilet needs without having to go through the whole rigmarole of getting dressed and booted up ...just open the door
    - there will be periods during the day when you will be at home but still have no time to dedicate fully to the dog ...with a radio fenced garden you can let them roam while keeping an eye on them through the window. (also great for getting them out from under your feet)

    I would never suggest to leave dogs alone in a radio fenced area for a longer time, the fence is not reliable enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭brianon


    2) electronic remote control "training aides"
    These are the proper shock collars ...your dog doesn't do what you expected it to do ...zapp it with the press of a button ...and if you feel like it, just zapp it again ..and again, and again. In the wong hands these things can kill. In most hands they are cruel and counter productive and even in expert hands they produce mixed results at best

    Peasant. I've had my dog since last Friday. A lab/Collie cross. We are using a 'shock collar' to train him. I see no harm in using this method. Plenty of positive re-enforcement. The dog gets a 'tap' on a low setting to encourage it to walk beside me etc... (just using the collar for that so far). It will be used to train the dog and then as either in an emergency or if the dog and owner get sloppy with training in the future.

    Of course in the wrong hands they can be very dangerous to the dog but then a dog owner who is prepared to zzzap their dog agian and again and again if they feel like it... doesn't need a shock collar to abuse their dog now do they? A few swift kicks to the head would I'm sure do damage enough.

    Used correctly (we are getting one to one lessons) the shock collar will make the dog a better dog and result in a much happier owner(s) which will result in a happier pet.

    Banning them is pointless and narrow minded. ffs you ever put a collor round your wrist and got someone to yank it as you would a dog if thats your chosen method ? Its a damn sight sorer than a small shock from a collar. Try it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    brianon wrote: »
    Peasant. I've had my dog since last Friday. A lab/Collie cross. We are using a 'shock collar' to train him. I see no harm in using this method. Plenty of positive re-enforcement. The dog gets a 'tap' on a low setting to encourage it to walk beside me etc... (just using the collar for that so far). It will be used to train the dog and then as either in an emergency or if the dog and owner get sloppy with training in the future.

    Of course in the wrong hands they can be very dangerous to the dog but then a dog owner who is prepared to zzzap their dog agian and again and again if they feel like it... doesn't need a shock collar to abuse their dog now do they? A few swift kicks to the head would I'm sure do damage enough.

    Used correctly (we are getting one to one lessons) the shock collar will make the dog a better dog and result in a much happier owner(s) which will result in a happier pet.

    Banning them is pointless and narrow minded. ffs you ever put a collor round your wrist and got someone to yank it as you would a dog if thats your chosen method ? Its a damn sight sorer than a small shock from a collar. Try it.

    Are you serious? Positive reinforcement from what? An electric shock, how is that positive, its far from it. Your dog is being trained in fear of getting hurt from the shock so how is that positive training?

    No dog trainer will advocate using shock treatments of any kind as they are cruel and unnecessary. Any dog can be trained very easily without any of these shock/painful methods. I own a male rottie who weighs 50kg and i wouldnt even think about putting any kind of shock collar etc on him as its cruel.
    Have you tried putting this collar on your own neck and hitting the button to see how painful it is? I really would do this before putting this awful piece of equipment on your lovely dog.

    Narrow minded is thinking that these collars are ok to use on a dog or any animal for that matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Just another gadget... dogs were trained before and without all this .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭brianon


    andreac wrote: »
    Are you serious? Positive reinforcement from what? An electric shock, how is that positive, its far from it. Your dog is being trained in fear of getting hurt from the shock so how is that positive training?
    The training is a mixture of positive and negative.
    Take walking for instance. The dog knows that walking with me (beside me - not in front or behind) is a good place to be. He gets affection and treats while learning this. If he falls behind he gets a 'nudge' (shock) which indicates to him that where he is, is not such a good place to be. So he catches up with me. Smiples.
    No dog trainer will advocate using shock treatments of any kind as they are cruel and unnecessary.
    Thats a load BS in fairness. We are currently getting 1:1 professional lessons for this training.
    Any dog can be trained very easily without any of these shock/painful methods.
    I am sure you are right. We've chosen this method and don't believe it to be cruel at all.
    I own a male rottie who weighs 50kg and i wouldnt even think about putting any kind of shock collar etc on him as its cruel.
    Thats your decision.
    Have you tried putting this collar on your own neck and hitting the button to see how painful it is? I really would do this before putting this awful piece of equipment on your lovely dog.
    Have you tried putting a collar (of the non-shock sort) around your neck and someone yank it to get you to catch up with them or come back to them ?
    I've tried the shock collar on my hand and also a lead on my wrist while it was pulled. Shock collar for me any day :D
    Narrow minded is thinking that these collars are ok to use on a dog or any animal for that matter.
    Of course again you are entitled to your opinion. IMO, I'm not the one being narrow minded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    peasant wrote: »
    You are of course correct in what you're saying, still there are some advantages to having a large space as opposed to a run only:
    - you can excercise your dogs there (if needs must) without having to go somewhere else
    - you can let your dog out there for unscheduled or urgent toilet needs without having to go through the whole rigmarole of getting dressed and booted up ...just open the door
    - there will be periods during the day when you will be at home but still have no time to dedicate fully to the dog ...with a radio fenced garden you can let them roam while keeping an eye on them through the window. (also great for getting them out from under your feet)

    I would never suggest to leave dogs alone in a radio fenced area for a longer time, the fence is not reliable enough.

    We do all this with our fenced garden. We know they are safe and within eye and ear.

    A decent fence ( we have sheep next to us so there is sheed fencing) is enough.

    And because of the number of dogs stolen every day in Ireland we would never leave the dogs loose when we were out whatever the fence.

    That is a factor no one seems to be taking seriously?


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    Why would somebody use such a cruel device. Take your time with the dog and use patience no matter how hard it is you will reap the rewards in the end with a dog that is loyal and affectionate. I know , I have two dogs at the moment and they were trained with patience and time. They are both well behaved and very affectionate. I didnt need a shock collar to train them and to stop them from going for other dogs etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Steve30x wrote: »
    Why would somebody use such a cruel device. Take your time with the dog and use patience no matter how hard it is you will reap the rewards in the end with a dog that is loyal and affectionate. I know , I have two dogs at the moment and they were trained with patience and time. They are both well behaved and very affectionate. I didnt need a shock collar to train them and to stop them from going for other dogs etc.


    Surely so; and surely so what is being called "training" is or should be about the relationship between you and the dog; based on trust and not an automatic and shocked response to a painful stimulus inflicted by the owner.

    It is not just "lazy"; it is relegating the dog to a fearful and subservient position.

    A maching like response

    To use this as you are doing , brianon is beyond normal useage.

    All you are doing is teaching through pain - period. A shock is painful.

    This is not about science but caring.

    And that it is being endorsed by a "professional " does not impress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    brianon wrote: »
    The training is a mixture of positive and negative.
    Take walking for instance. The dog knows that walking with me (beside me - not in front or behind) is a good place to be. He gets affection and treats while learning this. If he falls behind he gets a 'nudge' (shock) which indicates to him that where he is, is not such a good place to be. So he catches up with me. Smiples.


    Thats a load BS in fairness. We are currently getting 1:1 professional lessons for this training.


    I am sure you are right. We've chosen this method and don't believe it to be cruel at all.


    Thats your decision.


    Have you tried putting a collar (of the non-shock sort) around your neck and someone yank it to get you to catch up with them or come back to them ?
    I've tried the shock collar on my hand and also a lead on my wrist while it was pulled. Shock collar for me any day :D


    Of course again you are entitled to your opinion. IMO, I'm not the one being narrow minded.

    Any trainer that uses that kind of method, ie shock collars is not a good trainer as they need to use awful methods and painful methods to train their dogs. Good trainers will not need gadgets like that to train their dogs as a good one will have a good relationship and good ability to train with their own expertise and handling and not use gadgets that inflict pain to get the dog to do what they want.

    Believe what you want, but a shock collar is not a good way to train a dog, its a cowards way and an easy option for you to train the dog out of fear and pain. Its learning through negative results so how can that be positive in any way?
    Thankfully there are very few people like you out there wanting to use these cruel methods on their dogs or there would be an awful lot of poor dogs out there being shocked by their owners:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    brianon wrote: »
    Used correctly (we are getting one to one lessons) the shock collar will make the dog a better dog and result in a much happier owner(s) which will result in a happier pet.

    leaving the whole cruelty debate aside...

    It is a sad state of affairs when, instead of bonding with your dog on a personal, one to one level, you have to rely on the press of a button to make you happy.

    It is downright ignorant to postulate that this also makes your dog happy ...it doesn't. It turns it into a robot that only accepts your leadership to avoid pain. But maybe it is just that knowledge that makes you happy


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭brianon


    Can you all just calm down a little. You seem to be under the impression that the dog is hooked up to the mains here and gets zapped if he farts.

    I robbed this from a random site so... wat e said.
    "The electric volt submitted by these collars is nothing more then an irritant similar to static electricity. The dog shock collars' effectiveness is based on your pet being startled not on administering pain."


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    peasant wrote: »
    leaving the whole cruelty debate aside...

    It is a sad state of affairs when, instead of bonding with your dog on a personal, one to one level, you have to rely on the press of a button to make you happy.

    It is downright ignorant to postulate that this also makes your dog happy ...it doesn't. It turns it into a robot that only accepts your leadership to avoid pain. But maybe it is just that knowledge that makes you happy

    This has been on my mind all week.. watching our two and interacting with them. Seeing them respond to the bond of caring between us.

    Especially the collie who will never be normal after the abuse. I cannot imagine inflicting pain on her for any reason. And she is hard to handle; she missed out on puppyhood so now has to learn all those things.

    But never, ever through pain.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    brianon wrote: »
    Can you all just calm down a little. You seem to be under the impression that the dog is hooked up to the mains here and gets zapped if he farts.

    I robbed this from a random site so... wat e said.
    "The electric volt submitted by these collars is nothing more then an irritant similar to static electricity. The dog shock collars' effectiveness is based on your pet being startled not on administering pain."

    Doesnt matter if it gets one shock or 100, its still being shocked and it does hurt, of course it does.

    You said you got that info from a random site, so the info might not even be correct. Even the pet being startled isnt nice, training a dog is based on reward and bonding with your dog and getting the best out of him/her, how can you do that when its being shocked and startled??:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    brianon wrote: »
    Can you all just calm down a little. You seem to be under the impression that the dog is hooked up to the mains here and gets zapped if he farts.

    I robbed this from a random site so... wat e said.
    "The electric volt submitted by these collars is nothing more then an irritant similar to static electricity. The dog shock collars' effectiveness is based on your pet being startled not on administering pain."

    It is not a question of whether these collars electrocute the dog within an inch of its life or if they only gently zapp it. The thing is that the whole training approach is wrong. Training by pain doesn't work

    In fact, training a dog using such techniques carries a number of risks. These are:

    •Increasing the dogs fear or anxiety about the situation in which it is used
    •Decrease the dog’s ability to learn
    •Associate other, coincidental events with a fear provoking event
    •Inhibit behaviour, but leave the underlying emotional response unchanged increasing the chance of future problems
    •Induce an new avoidance, or aggressive response
    •Cause confusion as to which behaviour is required
    •Cause physical injury

    please read the whole article here:
    http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/implications-of-punishment.php

    Electric shock collars add another critical dimension to this ...the fact that the punishment doesn't actually emmanate from you, but it is a pain out of the blue, without a clear source.
    This opens the door to all sorts of wrong associations. Anything that happens (by coincidence) while the dog experiencs the pain might be associated with the pain.
    Extreme example ...say you're doing a dog training session next to a garden full of screaming children. Every time your dog gets zapped there is a running, screaming child nearby. The dog learns to associate running, screaming children with pain.
    Now ... what is the dog going to do the next time there are a few children running, screaming, running towards it? Best case scenario it's just going to roll over and piss itself with fear...worst case scenario we have another "children savaged by dog" headline.

    The other critical dimension is human weakness. Simply having to press a button invites abuse. Not conscious, open, malicious abuse (at least I hope not) but is a temptation to just keep pressing the button instead of working on the training technique. Zap and zap and zap again until the dog gets the message instead of maybe working on clearer signs or better timing


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    brianon wrote: »
    Can you all just calm down a little. You seem to be under the impression that the dog is hooked up to the mains here and gets zapped if he farts.

    I robbed this from a random site so... wat e said.
    "The electric volt submitted by these collars is nothing more then an irritant similar to static electricity. The dog shock collars' effectiveness is based on your pet being startled not on administering pain."

    Words fail.... more and more cruelty in your methods.. You have no idea what a dog feels; they have different pain receptors entirely.

    Someone we know tried one of these, talking like you... At the first shock, the dog leapt the fence and was literally never seen again.. Wise pooch.

    And the parallel with what was done to the pony in the shed opposite us is exact; he was incarcerated in that shed for six long months to "put manners on him". because he had food and water and shelter, no cruelty; unless you heard him screaming and kicking all night and day as we did.

    End result is the same as you are aiming at; a docile, subdued animal in fear.

    The end does not justify the means; not where a living creature in concerned.

    That pony came out - or , rather, the man was forced to release it after pressure from so many of us - cowed and utterly bereft of spirit. Sold now.

    If you cannot train with kindness and respect for the animal?

    Harder work certainly...


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 8 sjquaid


    Magic words there being 'when they're used properly'. You should still surely be able to fence in your dog appropriately without having to use a collar like that. None of my four dogs wear one of these.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    I dont think these collars are different from a bitch or mare giving a pup or a foal a nip on the neck to correct them.

    If that is how their own kind train them, then it is not for people to judge.

    There is of course always a risk that a person could use this collar to abuse a pet, but unfortunately the same risk applies to anything from a lead to a haltie to a sweeping brush. So on this basis I do not think that there is sufficient grounds to ban them or not to use them.

    I have a very loving German shepherd. He is a brilliant dog who loves people but unfortunately he also loves to jump up on them and then run between there legs (like a cat, its very affectionate but can knock you to the ground). He does not see the difference between adults and children so for this reason he could be a danger to a child or nervous adult.

    When he starts to get too boisterous I use a sharp tone and a pull on his lead to bring his attention back onto me and to remind him that this is unacceptable behaviour. I do not see a so called "positive enforcement" way to stop this behaviour when out in public. I do not have a shock collar but I am sure one would be helpful and possibly a better aid than what I am currently doing.

    My dog is extremely confident and has an alpha personality, he is never fearful of me and although a pull on his collar could be viewed as cruel it certainly does not have a negative affect on him. I am just telling him that certain behaviour is unacceptable the same way another dog would do if he lived in a pack.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Zapperzy


    If anyone can get their hands on this months dogs today magazine theres an article from victoria stilwell about a dog that was trained using a shock collar, horrible results but interesting read. :mad:

    I have never felt the shock from a collar so cannot comment on the pain (or lack of) caused by it, but I would still never use one on any dog. There are so many other much kinder methods out there.

    I am totally against invisible fences, maybe as a temporary back up to a regular fence but in the long term they are completely wrong. Aside from the physical pain (or as above lack of) caused by it there are other serious issues that need to be addressed. It offers no protection from invading dogs coming onto your property so if you have a bitch in season she can be mated or the dog could be attacked by another, the dog is in clear view of people and there is nothing stopping someone coming onto your property and stealing your dog, then there is the risk that the dog could see something on the other side that he really wants (a cat, livestock etc.) and run through the fence enduring the shock and then not want to run back through the fence.
    If you cannot fence off all of, or a portion of your garden then build a suitably sized enclosure, if you are not willing to do this then you shouldn't get a dog until you are in a position to do so. Not to mention that these fence systems are expensive and the money spent on them could go well towards building proper (real) fences or an enclosure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭mosi


    My parents neighbours use one of those electronic fences on their dog, and it does not work at all. Their GSD gets past it when anyone is walking past, and runs out, headbutts the passing dog and runs back in. Now, we know the dog, but somebody who didn't could easily complain and the poor dog would be in trouble. In addition, he could easily be run over by a car, which has happened to all of these people's previous dogs (beautiful GSDs which have all had the electronic collar). It makes my blood boil :mad:. They have quite a bit of land and judging by their large house, horses etc., I reckon they could easily afford to fence off a decent sized area for the dog to run around in. However, they are a bunch of lazy f*@# who never bother to walk their dog either and should really not keep dogs at all


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    eilo1 wrote: »
    I dont think these collars are different from a bitch or mare giving a pup or a foal a nip on the neck to correct them.

    If that is how their own kind train them, then it is not for people to judge.

    There is of course always a risk that a person could use this collar to abuse a pet, but unfortunately the same risk applies to anything from a lead to a haltie to a sweeping brush. So on this basis I do not think that there is sufficient grounds to ban them or not to use them.

    I have a very loving German shepherd. He is a brilliant dog who loves people but unfortunately he also loves to jump up on them and then run between there legs (like a cat, its very affectionate but can knock you to the ground). He does not see the difference between adults and children so for this reason he could be a danger to a child or nervous adult.

    When he starts to get too boisterous I use a sharp tone and a pull on his lead to bring his attention back onto me and to remind him that this is unacceptable behaviour. I do not see a so called "positive enforcement" way to stop this behaviour when out in public. I do not have a shock collar but I am sure one would be helpful and possibly a better aid than what I am currently doing.

    My dog is extremely confident and has an alpha personality, he is never fearful of me and although a pull on his collar could be viewed as cruel it certainly does not have a negative affect on him. I am just telling him that certain behaviour is unacceptable the same way another dog would do if he lived in a pack.

    There is a huge innate difference between a nip and a shock. A shock is systemic.

    And expressing horror at these collars is not being judgemental.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    eilo1 wrote: »
    When he starts to get too boisterous I use a sharp tone and a pull on his lead to bring his attention back onto me and to remind him that this is unacceptable behaviour. I do not see a so called "positive enforcement" way to stop this behaviour when out in public.

    The obvious positive enforcement way to train for that would be to get him to "sit" every time someone is coming up to him and reward that sit with a treat/praise.

    You still might have to correct him the odd time though when he gets too boisterous.

    BTW ..there is nothing wrong with correcting your dog every now and then ...provided that the dog knows what is normally expected in a situation (and has been trained for it) and just doesn't want to follow the rules.
    Not every behaviour can be changed by positive re-inforcement...sometimes you just have to give out to your dog or rein it in to remind it of the rules.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    Graces7 wrote: »
    There is a huge innate difference between a nip and a shock. A shock is systemic.

    And expressing horror at these collars is not being judgemental.

    do you mean systemic as in affecting the whole body?

    if so I would disagree as I have been shocked by electric fences and it is very much localised and in no way different from a pinch.

    Iv also been nipped by many a colt and i can honestly say that this is more painful than the electric shock I received.

    That aside the point is that bitches and mares use what we would describe as negative enforcement. If we can treat them in a gentle way than great its progress, but i dont think its cruel to treat them similar to the way their own do.


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