Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
26-12-2009, 14:12   #31
Sponge Bob
Banned
 
Sponge Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 24,822
I think a lot of it will be made up as we go along . RTE have the world cup in 2010 and they COULD give us a DVB-T1 HD feed and keep that going for the All Ireland as well. They will have enough transponders to do this whether Onevision launch or not.

The alternative is to abandon the airspace to the BBC/Freesat/SKY platforms which would be dreadfully shortsighted and them picking up the HD inbound feeds and with the core network out to the transmitters live since November .They can launch the SD fully and an 'experimental' HD network with it on one of the other 3 transponders. So what if Dunphy HD looks dreadful

I am inclining towards an April/May 2010 launch now, irrespective of whether eircom accept the licence or not and largely because RTE/UPC are next up to be offered the licence if not.
Sponge Bob is offline  
Advertisement
26-12-2009, 17:15   #32
Sam Russell
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,347
I agree that an early 2010 launch is likely. It would be a big push if RTE offered an HD varient of RTE1 or even a complete HD service like the BBC HD - some RTE1, and some RTE2, depending on HD availability. It would also allow a little time shift. I do not know how much HD kit RTE has, but HD is where the action is, so much of their production must be in HD if only to sell it overseas.

DVB-T2 is not likely, but it is possible that Onevision could purchase such STBs so that a later switch is possible. 30% extra capacity could be welcome if it were to take off, and if they do not belieive it will take off, they would walk away now.

Here's hoping for a March launch.
Sam Russell is offline  
26-12-2009, 18:03   #33
Sponge Bob
Banned
 
Sponge Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 24,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
I agree that an early 2010 launch is likely. It would be a big push if RTE offered an HD varient of RTE1 or even a complete HD service like the BBC HD - some RTE1, and some RTE2, depending on HD availability.
They always left themselves the option within the minimum spec

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FT...eiver-Spec.pdf

Quote:
This document specifies the minimum receiver (technical) requirements for reception of standard definition television (SDTV) services, high definition television (HDTV) services, and ancillary data services, from the free-to-air (FTA) digital terrestrial television (DTT) transmission network in Ireland.
specifically "Service 3"

Quote:
Service 3 (HDTV); MPEG4 AVC HP@L4 HDTV video, HE.AAC multi-channel audio, DVB Subtitling and MHEG5 “superteletext”
so as long as there isn't some 'awkward flag' in the Freeview HD spec it should eb cool, the UK Freeview HD spec cannot be downloaded to check

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?id=3294

Quote:
DVB-T2 is not likely, but it is possible that Onevision could purchase such STBs so that a later switch is possible. 30% extra capacity could be welcome if it were to take off, and if they do not belieive it will take off, they would walk away now.

Here's hoping for a March launch.
Here is hoping.
Sponge Bob is offline  
26-12-2009, 18:07   #34
reslfj
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 294

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
Why would anyone think that there is even the faintest chance of T2 deployment if the cost of deploying T1 is so horrendous it wont be implemented even a year after it was supposed to have been? I would think there is a very good chance we still wont even have T1 even two years from now, given the total shambles that has transpired.
The difference between T1 and T2 at the transmitter is a simple and inexpensive 19"x1.5" rackmounted box with 'computer chips' inside.
All the expensive parts - the mast, the antennas, the UHF power amps. can in almost all cases be 100% reused going from T1 to T2.

But the operational costs will be very much lower.

3 DVB-T muxes will carry 3x24.1 Mbps = 72 Mbps.

2 DVB-T2 muxes will carry 2x40.2 Mbps = 80 Mbps = +11%

So DVB-T2 could provides 11 % more capacity and save 33% of the power and of most other costs. The cost of maintaining the TXmast itself will of cause remain unchanged.

Lars

PS! "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings"
reslfj is offline  
Thanks from:
26-12-2009, 18:08   #35
Souriau
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 772
I also think it is better to get a DBV-T2 boxes as even the transmission is not just ready for T2, whenever it will change over to DVB-T2 format, the boxes are already there so the viewer does not need to go out and buy another kit.
Souriau is offline  
Advertisement
26-12-2009, 18:22   #36
reslfj
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
DVB-T2 is not likely, but it is possible that Onevision could purchase such STBs so that a later switch is possible. 3 0 % extra capacity could be welcome if it were to take off,
Now STOP this nonsense about 3 0 % extra .


In UK and Ireland DTT will - post-DSO - be using
Code:
1.  DVB-T   64-QAM   24.13 Mbps   or
2.  DVB-T2 256-QAM   40.21 Mbps
(40.21 - 24.13)*100% / 24.13 = 66.6% extra capacity. This is the only relevant value to quote for a full power UK/ROI(MFN) DTT multiplex.


Lars
reslfj is offline  
Thanks from:
26-12-2009, 18:41   #37
Sam Russell
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by reslfj View Post
Now STOP this nonsense about 3 0 % extra .


In UK and Ireland DTT will - post-DSO - be using
Code:
1.  DVB-T   64-QAM   24.13 Mbps   or
2.  DVB-T2 256-QAM   40.21 Mbps
(40.21 - 24.13)*100% / 24.13 = 66.6% extra capacity. This is the only relevant value to quote for a full power UK/ROI(MFN) DTT multiplex.


Lars
OK, I am not up to speed on the difference, but extra capacity would be very welcome to a commercial enterprise, as more channels equals more money. And that is what they are all about. If T2 boxes are specified by Onevision (oe whoever) they can start with one Mux and convert as they require, and allow RTE to piggyback. The FTA-only boxes would be T1 and very cheap, as they are existing technology and would not need to be equipped with cams.

Roll on Roll out.
Sam Russell is offline  
26-12-2009, 23:46   #38
T-Square
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by slegs View Post
Depends on where you are. If in Dublin then a coat hanger or rabbits ears may be enough
This should be enough to get the free to air terresterial stuff?
  • Integrated freesat tuner – watch free-to-air HD and SD satellite broadcasts without the need for an additional set top box
  • Watch digital TV with the integrated standard definition digital terrestrial tuner (MPEG-2, also receives analogue)
  • Watch cable TV with the integrated digital cable tuner (subject to country and with supported operators only

I was thinking of going to Maplins, to buy something discreet, has anyone bought something they would recommend from them?
T-Square is offline  
27-12-2009, 00:21   #39
ynotdu
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,157
The LG32 mentioned in many posts here could not be got in the last two weeks.Power City website claimed they had three in the Tallaght store only,next day said they were gone

Also a trader who posts here(N Ireland )said he could sell as many of them as he could stock,but had none and said he "heard they were discontinued,but might relaunch in the new year"

The Specs are/were TOO good for the price.
It will proably 'relaunch' in the new year but at a much higher price,It was too good to last
ynotdu is offline  
Advertisement
27-12-2009, 11:31   #40
championc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,714
I know, I know, I was the one who started this thread but I may need to rethink things. If I run my Satellite cable directly into my TV, then I'm obviously going to need another feed from my dish to support an STB connected to my DVD Recorder.

Is there any box / gadget which will run two LNB feeds down one cable. I obviously need to links in case one channel needs to view a H channel and the other a V channel - or am I wrong ?
championc is offline  
27-12-2009, 13:04   #41
weehamster
Registered User
 
weehamster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 366
Stacker De-Stacker Switch
weehamster is offline  
27-12-2009, 13:25   #42
scath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 558
I don't think we can see a launch in April, May 2010.

First of all you have the marketing lead in time. It takes time to draw up a marketing campaign & produce it for media, to buy airtime across media and to negotiate with channels and to order the required number of set top boxes which must be pay TV compliant which presumably Freeview HD boxes made will not be (not sure on the last bit there).

Also the consortium has to register as a company, notify to the Competition Authority presumably and get approval etc late March.

I would say we're talking website creation within just before contracts signed, September announcement its coming shortly, TV programmes about DTT, RTÉ, TV3 etc with retailers being stocked up in October co-inciding with marketing blitz end of October that its coming, with launch in November 1st for the lead into Christmas. That's two years ASO time! presuming end of 2012 is now decided, or a year if you count that start of 2012. I guess that's why One Vision were concerned about the Government supporting financially the ASO.

My own view on ASO is that we should co-time switch exactly the time Northern Ireland do, and agree a joint marketing campaign and budget with Digital UK so that everyone knows the situation. That's better for viewers across the island, its simple. It makes life easier if we all go for DVB-T2 for border viewers etc.

I wonder is their any gain for One Vision do a deal with Top-up TV for the Northern Ireland market for upgrading a 2nd mux there for T2? and do its operations up North aswell? Probably too much to take on for the number of viewers sign-up able. Presumably Top up TV will benefit from One Vision DTT boxes, especially if they're T2 boxes. It will help drive down costs. However switchover of more muxes in the UK doesn't coincide for Top-up TV. Having said that, I guess to have HD channels, Top up TV will have to go for T2 boxes with Freeview HD then part of their offering so that could help drive down costs for One Vision just a little on the stb. That would future proof Top-up TV for when the next Mux is switched to T2 and it gets more capacity.

Given the energy savings and capacity improvements, having RTÉ NL upgrade masts with the T2 kit also makes sense as Lars points out. Ongoing cost of operations savings are what its all about and you can bet Arquiva are aware of that. There's enough time for RTÉ NL to do it under the timeline I'm talking about. If it can be done quicker ie in 3 months then of course you're talking about end May in time for the World Cup but that would be lightening fast and not much time for everything to settle in.

Last edited by scath; 28-12-2009 at 11:39.
scath is offline  
27-12-2009, 16:24   #43
championc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by scath View Post
My own view on ASO is that we should co-time switch exactly the time Northern Ireland do, and agree a joint marketing campaign and budget with Digital UK so that everyone knows the situation. That's better for viewers across the island, its simple. It makes life easier if we all go for DVB-T2 for border viewers etc.
Certainly would make huge sense to piggyback onto UK NI Campaign and have a whole Island of Ireland switchoff at the end of 2012. I think we all except that the Irish service will certainly start with DVB-T1 channels (and will then possibly add T2 ones as they go along), it would be very interesting to know at this point as to how many households would already be able to receive T1 transmissions ?
championc is offline  
27-12-2009, 22:23   #44
Sam Russell
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by scath View Post
I don't think we can see a launch in April, May 2010.

First of all you have the marketing lead in time. It takes time to draw up a marketing campaign & produce it for media, ........

.
Look, they have it all working now. They just need to tell everyone, including those in the TV trade. Identify the STB, and away they go. Tell everyone that the analogue goes off in 1st Jan 2011, and switch off the analogue one channel at a time. There is no quicker way of changing over than sitching off the old one. When my telly broke down, I went out and bought a new one, that day. If it has to be, the it has to be. People currently pay $ky and UPC upto €65 euros a month, the STB would be less than that as a single payment.

The ESB could distribute the new STBs if they were cheap enough, they used to do cookers. Or maybe Eircom could leave them on the doorsteps like they do with the Yellow Pages.

There is no money for a big campaign, but word of mouth, and telling people through the tranmitters that it will soon be switched off is cheaper and more effective.
Sam Russell is offline  
28-12-2009, 12:27   #45
scath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
Look, they have it all working now.
Yea at the network end. But the whole company formation, channel line-up negotiations with broadcasters will take at least a month or two. Set top boxes will take longer, to have sufficient quantity available from a variety of manufacturers (DVb-T1) MPEG4 boxes and TVs are only becoming more widely available here with DVB-T2 boxes on a few months behind given the UK market is skipping our intermediate spec and feeds the ROI TV market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
They just need to tell everyone, including those in the TV trade.
And how do you do that? I agree there are cheap ways to do this, such as news programmes like Prime Time etc. use of libraries, colleges with posters, Newspaper free CD explanation. But ultimately rather than just informing, as in the case of FTA DTT, you have to have a marketing campaign to attract subscribers to the pay DTT end, simple as. You have to set your stall and sell. Even Freeview do a little of that. That takes afew months from inviting pitches to selecting one, to booking airtime. You also have to put in place customer service teams etc... for the marketing and stb ends.

All that will simply take at least 3 months and maybe more. That's not to say it can't be done. But its alot of rushing. That's not to say they can't achieve launch by June. It just means rushing. So yes its possible, but of course if OneVision don't sign then you're definitely talking Christmas or Paddy's Day 2011.

I just have a feeling that One Vision may go with T2 boxes & seek transmitters upgrade to T2. Of course they mighn't & who knows they may not have been in a rush, striking for the best deal they could get, also aware of the T2 situation stb timeline before now, also seeking direction from their new parent towards DTT. Now its an option for them pre-launch. I think if the security bond is overcome & I think it might be, then you'll have launch. You could even see RTÉ NL invited to place a nominal shareholding in the project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
Tell everyone that the analogue goes off in 1st Jan 2011, and switch off the analogue one channel at a time. There is no quicker way of changing over than sitching off the old one. When my telly broke down, I went out and bought a new one, that day. If it has to be, the it has to be. People currently pay $ky and UPC upto €65 euros a month, the STB would be less than that as a single payment.
I agree as most know, like the Euro changeover, that the quickest way to increase subcribers to One Vision and save costs on broadcasting simultaneous analogue and digital is brief switchover. But this is a 'political decision' (Broadcating Act 2009), Minister has power here, ultimately and the Government will want to be seen to give people time to switchover. Ultimately it makes sense for us to co-time switchover with NI. That is something I think the BBC will be keen for. They're also keen for us to adopt DVB-T2 from their input in my dissertation about that as it simplifies matters.

One could switchover on dates according to transmitter over the 2 years, mirroring the UK set-up. That would be expensive method, as would rely on local papers which some don't read and be prolonged advertising, potential for confusion as to where you get signals from.

The big bang is cheaper, to inform just turn them off first at Donnybrook, then decomission the analogue setup.

The thing is that the Analogue Switchover Group was only recently formed presumably once negotiations were at an advanced sate in the BAI licensee signed off. RTÉ being in the 3rd consortium would obviously speed things up.

At which point then stakeholders will be invited. At the moment, its only to advise the Minister internal department group, its not a stakeholders panel which probably explains http://www.tvaccess.ie/index.php?opt...cles&Itemid=65

One Vision not to have clarity about approach from the Government beyond 'sometime in 2012'. I suspect that once there's a DTT sign-off that that will start in earnest.

I suspect they'll go with a big bang similar to NI. Ideally if we could get NI to bring forward to switchover to the same time as us, it would be great and that means that January 1st 2012 is do-able. 1 year is enough. You have to give people time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
The ESB could distribute the new STBs if they were cheap enough, they used to do cookers. Or maybe Eircom could leave them on the doorsteps like they do with the Yellow Pages.
I think yer being humourous there hahahaha...ESB are out of that a few years now, with no appetite presumably to get back into it. As ror Eircom, I think they'll look to sell the set top box through retailers rather than offer them for free to every household with their Eircom Phonebook. BTW, Yellowpages is owned by Truvo I think, not Eircom I think,anymore see: http://www.independent.ie/business/i...r-1727852.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Russell View Post
There is no money for a big campaign, but word of mouth, and telling people through the tranmitters that it will soon be switched off is cheaper and more effective.
You'll find that there is money for a campaign. Any company launching a commercial product has to have one.

The problem about telling people through the transmitters could scare the bejasus out of some people. That solution is more suited to ASO, which is used in UK. I've advocated word of mouth to as in Town Hall type meetings I call them travelling roadshows in universities, chambers of commerce, etc with demos and information on nearest retailer. Definitely and internet are the cost effective methods. But Newspapers and TV and probably radio have to be used aswell. But it doesn't need to be a big campaign. More a sustained one. And its not a complicated proposition.

For example: UK is going digital as is Europe, satellite has gone digital, cable is undergoing digital presently.
terrestrial (transmission to aerial) in RO Ireland is finally going digital

Why? More radiowave capacity=more channel capacity 4*8 or 10 but less radiowave required needed
More services available and integration with internet
Better viewing expericence
Greater choice
Home regulated service, Irish jobs, more channels from Irish broadcasters
3rd Force competition for Pay TV- One Vision

Simple enough!

Last edited by scath; 28-12-2009 at 12:59. Reason: bleddy spelling :D
scath is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet