40 Euro GOVERNMENT TAX on Mastercard

DUX · 18-04-2004 2:27pm #1

I have just been charged for this on my Mastercard:

16 APR 2004 GOVERNMENT TAX 40.00

Is this normal? Any way I can claim back this 40 Euro??

flogen · 18-04-2004 2:29pm

are you posting in the wrong place? are you a troll? are you a muppet?

Flogen

DUX · 18-04-2004 2:31pm

sorry i just realised i posted in the wrong place (although this is a small personal issue

). Is there any way to have this thread moved?

sorry

Gordon · 18-04-2004 2:31pm

silent · 18-04-2004 2:34pm

Originally posted by DUX
I have just been charged for this on my Mastercard:
Is this normal?

Sadly yes, it was charged last year too, before that it was an acceptable 15E IIRC

Any way I can claim back this 40 Euro??

Move abroad

, open an account elsewhere and get a CC that way, get an amex blue and get those 40E back using it and getting 1% cashback.
Basically you cant do anything just pay it, it an absurd double tax and extremely expensive at that too. 15E is ok, but 40 PER CARD? c'mon
someone shoot the goverment in charge of this

DUX · 18-04-2004 3:10pm

I have got charged the same amount on my AMEX, but my company refund me the money for it......but this Mastercard is my personal one, I hate throwing away money this way. The problem is that AMEX is not accepted everywhere so I have to keep this Mastercard too :mad:

voxpop · 18-04-2004 3:14pm

I dont see that much of a problem with it - its a bit steep but basically its a tax on ppl who have enough money to own a credit card

The problem is taxing atm cards

Johnny Versace · 18-04-2004 3:18pm

Originally posted by Angry_Penguin
I dont see that much of a problem with it - its a bit steep but basically its a tax on ppl who have enough money to own a credit card

The problem is taxing atm cards

Well... I disagree here. Lots of people have credit cards, but it doesn't mean they have lots of money. Some people just have them to do online purchases (me), but I would in no way call myself rich!

It's just another stealth tax...

silent · 18-04-2004 3:24pm

if want to tax rich people who have money then introduce third tax bracket after 50K/y with 50-55% and voila
but no, they make loads of other hidden taxes which only anger most people and has much more overhead than larger income taxes

DUX · 18-04-2004 3:26pm

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
Well... I disagree here. Lots of people have credit cards, but it doesn't mean they have lots of money. Some people just have them to do online purchases (me), but I would in no way call myself rich!

It's just another stealth tax...

I agree with Johnny. I am another one of those owning a credit card and using it mainly for online purchases...and nowadays I believe the 90% of the people out there own a credit card anyway. No need to be rich for having a credit card....

jongore · 18-04-2004 3:28pm

Yeah it's on all CCs, it's a pain in the A$$ as I use mine for online purchases and I also would not consider myself well off.

BTW AMEX is a crap card, very few places take it in Ireland and a lot of online stores don't accept it either.

voxpop · 18-04-2004 3:33pm

I didnt say it was a tax on rich ppl - "its a tax on ppl who have enough money to own a credit card" - obviously you have enough money to afford the tax or you would cancel you credit card

alleepally · 18-04-2004 3:42pm

This tax is WRONG WRONG WRONG no matter how you slice it. Having a credit card or an ATM card is entirely a PRIVATE matter between you and your bank but we put these muppets in power and unfortunately the vast majority will just shrug when they see it on their bill. I wouldn't mind if the government ring fenced the money gained by this to go to something tangible, like increasing foreign aid to developing countries. As it stands, any extra funds the government gets is going to be spent on the ever increasing public service payroll bill/tribunals/yada yada

capistrano · 18-04-2004 3:59pm

My main problem with the €40 charge is that it stifles competition. I know people in the UK who have many credit cards and move their debt around to the one offering the best rates. This competition keeps the banks on their toes. No one in Ireland will now want more than one credit card because each card will have the unjust tax on it. So the state gains at the expense losses to the consumer and creating a protected environment for banks/credit card companies.

It's just ludicrous. Does anyone know of another country where there is a government tax on having credit cards and ATM cards? I don't mean bank charges - just state charges.

alleepally · 18-04-2004 4:18pm

I gleaned some stats from the Irish Bankers Federation. They cover the main clearing banks, so this gives a good indication of what a money spinner it is.

Raw figurs

Number of issued credit cards in ROI - 1.8m
Total Government charge to the cards without your giving consent - €72 MILLION

Number of issued atm cards in ROI - 2.9m
Total Government charge to the cards without your giving consent - €29 MILLION

Number of issued laser cards in ROI -1,092,000
Total government charge to the cards without your giving consent - €21.8 million

GRAND TOTAL = €122.8 MILLION

I have a BIG problem with this robbery. Take the ATM cards for example. With 2.9m issued cards, that's basically everyone in the country who can hold a bank account.

If the government wants to be fair about this, why not send out a tax demand to EVERYONE in the state for €10? How would they word it

"Hello there, we are taking €10 from you. Please have your wallet/purse ready for the revenue collector when he/she calls. Thanks and regards, your friendly shower of muppets c/o Dail Eireann. PS - Yeah, we know there are super wealthy people (e.g. Denis O'Brien) and so on who can pay feck all tax in comparison to their wealth by living in another country, but we have you by the balls coz we know you're not going to complain like the super rich"

I also understand that many people on social welfare can get their entitlements into a bank account. For the 'privelege' of being able to receive their entitlements in a dignified manner by withdrawing money from an ATM like anyone else, they are charged €10 also...

seamus · 18-04-2004 4:30pm

Remember that if you cancel it before April next year, you'll get charged anopth €40 for this year.

It's a rip off. €40 can be a lot of money when things are tight.

capistrano · 18-04-2004 4:45pm

It's the attitude that they tax it because so many people can't live without bank crads. It's easy money.

Beware of what's next: tax on mobile phones? Boradband access?

Why not, it fits the pattern of easy money.

alleepally · 18-04-2004 5:15pm

Re: my figures above. I should qualify the credit card one by saying that the tax is per account and not per card so the take from the credit card tax is going to be less. From my reading of the situation, no one seems to have an accurate figure of the actual number of accounts. I believe the banks have until July 1st to pass over all the money to the government.

Regardless, it's still a huge chunk of money and despite searching I cannot find any other country in the world that imposes a credit card or atm card tax.

Tom Dunne · 18-04-2004 7:11pm

Originally posted by capistrano

Beware of what's next: tax on mobile phones? Boradband access?

Don't laugh, but aren't they proposing a tax on company provided mobile phones, laptops and broadband access (being taxed as BIK)?

I work in IT support and we provide 24x7 out of hours support. So a laptop, mobile and broadband access (for those who can get it) are required for my job. Any yet the government want to tax me BIK on it?

Tom Dunne · 18-04-2004 7:14pm

Originally posted by jongore

BTW AMEX is a crap card, very few places take it in Ireland and a lot of online stores don't accept it either.

Thats rubbish, I have one for the past number of years and they are accepted everywhere Visa/Mastercard are accepted. I can't remember the last time I was told an establishment didn't accept AA.

HelterSkelter · 18-04-2004 7:14pm

Originally posted by Angry_Penguin
I dont see that much of a problem with it - its a bit steep but basically its a tax on ppl who have enough money to own a credit card

Hahaha, that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!! You don't need to have a large income to get a credit card. Sure they even give them to students.

Johnny Versace · 18-04-2004 7:14pm

Yes, the tax on credit cards is per account, whereas the tax on laser/cheque cards/atm cards is per card AND per functionalty!

So if you have a combined laser + atm card, that's tax x 2.

...

Scumbags.

Victor · 18-04-2004 7:53pm

Oh, get a life people. This is one tax that Denis O'Brien does get stuck for (assuming he has an Irish CC).

If the government didn't have stamp duty, they would simply tax something else.

naitkris · 18-04-2004 8:06pm

i really don't like getting taxed 40 Euro every year on something as small as a credit card (i am on a student credit card, so it is kindof small in terms of max credit) especially since it was doubled a year or two ago... maybe they should tax people different amounts based on how much they spend on it or even better, their max limit on the card. if they did it this way, it'd be a whole lot fairer in my view.

it kindof sucks to forget the 40 Euro is going to be charged and then see it on ones bill and then having to adjust ones finances for the month as a student to pay it off...

in Sweden as far as i am aware, there is no tax on credit cards every year, but then again there's huge income and corporate tax which is where the Government makes up for it, in Ireland they seem to make revenue off credit cards and other things instead to make up for the low corporate tax and relatively low income tax (in comparison to Sweden)

chump · 18-04-2004 8:13pm

I'm a student and I have a CC.
I don't have a part-time job at the moment.
I got it during a summer when I had a job and use it rarely at the moment if getting say something online (concert tickets etc...) and if i'm every stuck out one nite with no money and need a emergency withdrawal...

so now the government take 40euro for CC + 10 for atm card + 10 for another atm card (was basically given in 1st year of college) ... so that's 60euro just like that?...

and I simply can't afford to pay for it at the minute...

l3rian · 18-04-2004 9:24pm

anyone know of any other ways to avoid this tax? get a card from abroad?

voxpop · 18-04-2004 9:59pm

jesus, if you dont want to pay the 40 quid cancel you credit card, otherwise stop moaning and get up off your ass and vote this government out.

I have not once said that the €40 is aimed at rich ppl, its at ppl who can afford a cc, if your a student /otherwise and cant afford it, drop he credit card - simple as that!

I agree with capistrano that it stifles competition, but as for the idiots who seem to think im going on about ppl with huge incomes... read what ive posted - if you cant afford/dont want to pay the tax - get rid of your credit card. These card make alot for the company issuing them , if enough ppl drop their card because of the €40 tax then the cc companies will take note and lobbie the government to stop the tax!

alleepally · 18-04-2004 9:59pm

"Oh, get a life people. This is one tax that Denis O'Brien does get stuck for (assuming he has an Irish CC).

If the government didn't have stamp duty, they would simply tax something else."

What do you mean get a life people? Are you above all this? You're OK with stealth taxes? You're ok with the fact that this tax isn't based on ability to pay? You're OK that money is taken from your account without you agreeing to it and at a time that may be inconvenient to you (i.e. your stone broke/lost a job and can't pay and then interest is added to your account) ? You're ok that a guy getting a disability payment has to pay the government for the privilege of being able to withdraw his entitlements by ATM?

If you got a letter through the post from revenue demanding €10,€20 or €40 for nothing you'd just give it without question?

The argument of "if they didn't tax this they'd tax something else". fine, bend over and just take everything you're given. I say NO to that and have made my feelings known to TD's in my area.

I wonder would your attitude be the same if the government decided to raise income taxes? At least that would be a fairer way of doing things than this underhanded method.

Meh · 18-04-2004 10:24pm

Originally posted by tom dunne
Don't laugh, but aren't they proposing a tax on company provided mobile phones, laptops and broadband access (being taxed as BIK)?

I work in IT support and we provide 24x7 out of hours support. So a laptop, mobile and broadband access (for those who can get it) are required for my job. Any yet the government want to tax me BIK on it?

No, it's the other way round. McCreevy did tighten up the BiK rules in this year's budget, but he explicitly excluded these things from tax.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2003/11/18/story121932.asp
Mr McCreevy also stated that a new BIK exemption will be made for mobile phones, home-based computer equipment and high speed internet connections for business use and where private use is incidental.

"It is not the intention to apply BIK to something that is for business use," the Minister concluded.

seamus · 18-04-2004 10:28pm

Originally posted by alleepally
You're OK with stealth taxes? You're ok with the fact that this tax isn't based on ability to pay?

I know I'm just fine with stealth, or more correctly, indirect taxes. Almost everything is subject to indirect taxation, in the form of VAT. I have a problem with this one in that there's essentially two taxations taking place - on the goods you buy with the card, and then on the card itself. The notion of taxing credits cards is ok, but a blanket €40 is a bit ridiculous. That's a bit like just slapping a blanket €2000 tax cost on every vehicle - regardless of size, cost, or amount of use.
I had a student credit card last year, and got stung with the €40. It had a €350 limit. That was 11.5% of my limit. Someone with a €10,000 limit would only be paying 0.4% of their limit. Where's the rationale in that? If they used this tax against your limit, so you pay say 1% of your limit, that would be fine. When you buy a cheaper product, it's an indication of your ability to afford it, and the nature of VAT means that it's lower too. The limit of your credit card is *primarily based* on your ability to afford it. Why shouldn't this tax also be based upon that limit?

You're ok that a guy getting a disability payment has to pay the government for the privilege of being able to withdraw his entitlements by ATM?

There's no tax on ATM cards. I'm not sure, but the €40 may be on ATM cards that are upgraded to laser cards. This is a whole different ballgame, and like credits cards, you won't get a laser card unless you can afford it. So the guy on disability probably wouldn't get taxed.

Gummy Panda · 18-04-2004 10:40pm

AFAIK there is a €10 tax on ATM cards and €20 if its a Laser card. Searched a bit on BOI's site and not much info besides the credit card tax.

http://www.budget.gov.ie/ should will have all the info you need.

40 Euro GOVERNMENT TAX on Mastercard

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