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View Poll Results: Who Will The Dems pick in 2020
Harris 51 6.26%
Bernie 204 25.03%
Clinton 25 3.07%
Brooker 8 0.98%
Biden 336 41.23%
Gillbrand 6 0.74%
Oprah! 40 4.91%
Warren 85 10.43%
Klobuchar 7 0.86%
Michelle Obama 41 5.03%
Cuomo 12 1.47%
Voters: 815. You may not vote on this poll

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25-09-2020, 23:35   #6706
TomOnBoard
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It looks like Trump will be nominating Amy Coney Barrett for Supreme Court Justice, according to reports out of the U.S.

The next steps for Joe Biden's campaign need careful consideration. The Supreme Court is one of the topics in next week's debate. Clearly, Coney Barrett's nomination will loom large over that aspect of the debate.

Biden should NOT get into the merits or otherwise of Barrett's candicacy. Whatever issues one might have about a nomination and vote being made in an election year, it would be entirely wrong for him to get into the weeds about her suitability or otherwise for the role; that assessment is a job for the Senate.
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26-09-2020, 02:49   #6707
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Just reading about how US influence in Asia is changing under Trump:

1. South Korea is actively discussing developing a native nuclear defense/offense capability...
2. Japan is totally at sea with respect to where the US currrently stands regarding China's creation of sovereign territory by pumping sand into coral reefs... Piracy gone totally un- answered!
3. China is drilling ever further into places like Hong Kong, Kashmir and its internal abuse of Uighurs!

And thats just a sample!

What do they have in common?

TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE ABROGATION OF U.S. RESPONSIBILITIES
TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE FAILURE TO HELP, INFLUENCE AND/OR ACTUALLY SORT **** OUT!
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26-09-2020, 09:26   #6708
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The republicans are being lined up behind trump parroting him out of one side of their mouth while trying to thread a line with very carefully chosen words out of the other.

They are telling the public what they intend to do, I hope that the American public are listening.

Graham and Pence with the latest lines of crap I've heard regarding the election. I don't think Biden takes the issue as seriously as he should, so I really hope there are people on his team who understand the intent.

trump knows he's losing, everything he is doing now is just his lashing out from a position of weakness. Sending money to PR, making promises he didn't see fit to implement in his first 3.5 years of office etc, he's desperate. When a man with no principles, no morals, is desperate and aware he is fighting for his life that is a very dangerous person.

Last edited by StringerBell; 26-09-2020 at 09:29.
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26-09-2020, 12:47   #6709
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In the debates Biden has to act Presidential with Trump carrying and failing to burden of the Presidency.
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26-09-2020, 13:34   #6710
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It needs to be a big lead for joe Biden on election night before it’s closed down because if trump is ahead it’ll be like the Monaco Grand Prix the year the race was stopped in the rain with senna catching Prost in that the outcome will be prematurely called.

Also, the talk about Pennsylvania and the GOP legislature ignoring the voters is just noise. It seems all states passed laws years ago to give the voters power and to change that they’d need to pass another law repealing the current one and that has to be signed by the governor who is a democrat in Pennsylvania.
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26-09-2020, 13:40   #6711
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Called by whom? Each State when all votes are counted declares its Electors. Not up to Biden, Trump, GOP or Dems.
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26-09-2020, 13:47   #6712
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Called by whom? Each State when all votes are counted declares its Electors. Not up to Biden, Trump, GOP or Dems.
Well trump will call it because why the **** won’t he ? He’s not someone who lets reality get in the way of his narrative. He believes he’s all powerful already and has powers his office doesn’t give him. He’ll say there is rigging of the election if it’s close enough where there is doubt. He’s saying it out loud so people should believe him.
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26-09-2020, 13:50   #6713
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Yes Trump had telegraphed that but each State won't have declared. Nobody can help the idiots who believe what he'll spout.
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26-09-2020, 14:16   #6714
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It's quite telling that after Trump's comments about being unwilling to commit to a transfer of power, several Republicans have come out with the line "We will abide with whatever the courts decide" rather than the traditional "We will abide with whatever the people decide".

It's quite likely that Trump will be ahead on election night given that more Democrats than Republicans appear to be going for mail-in options. As the days proceed and those mail-in votes are counted, more and more states will tip in the favour of Biden. The nightmare scenario for him is where it all hinges one 1 state, for example Pennsylvania, and the Republicans go to the courts to stop the counting for some reason. Given the upcoming appointment of ACB, Biden really does not want to be in a Gore v Bush scenario with the makeup of that Supreme Court.

The only way to avoid it is for him to win comprehensively, ideally with the votes that are counted on election night.
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26-09-2020, 18:08   #6715
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Originally Posted by stefanovich View Post
I doubt if he even checks one of those boxes.

I saw the "peaceful transfer of power" exchange for myself and what is being reported is a misrepresentation at best.

How is he controlling the media? 90% of TV stations in the US are against him.
He attempts to control the media. Calling anything not favourable to him fake. Removing press from White House he does not like. Adding niche far right news teams that he does..

Quote:
1. Powerful and continuing nationalism
America has always been a patriotic country. The left are openly expressing hatred for the US.
What left?

And how exactly does Bernie or AOC hate America, please explain?

Trump goes overboard with nationalism, his 4th of July looked like a freaking Nuremburg rally.


Quote:
2. Disdain for human rights
Any example of this? Enforcing immigration law?
Completely ignoring the UN charter on asylum seekers, gassing immigrants at the border, children in cages, huge rise in civilian drone deaths that then he wants no longer reported. This sort of stuff is not normal https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/u...r-georgia.html

Quote:
3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Which enemies are you talking about? Violent antifa or ISIS?
Take your pick from Mexicans being all dogs and rapists, other Hispanics being all ms13, Muslims, the left, democrats

Trump has created multiple enemies and used them as way to unify hatred.

Quote:
4. Rampant sexism
He is about to appoint a female supreme court judge.
And look at the way he has treated other women and what he has called them. He told the four Democrats to go back to their own country yet said nothing to Democrat men holding same ideals.

Quote:
5. Controlled mass media
No example of this... Unless you are talking about social media. What he is attempting to do in that space is admirable and in everyone's best interests
Been explained in first paragraph. No question Trump is attempting to control the media in his favour. And it's wearing down the public too. If you shout loud enough something is fake and a fraud eventually people will believe it.

Quote:
6. Obsession with national security
More obsessed than any previous President? Obama? No. He has tried hard to deescalate tensions with historical enemies.
Obama didn't ban Muslims from entering. He did want to waste money on a wall. Obama didn't massively increase military spending either.

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7. Religion and government intertwined
This has always been a part of American politics.
To the extent it is now.. no

Trump has already put too extremely conservative judges on the SC. He is now in process of appointing a person with 'Handmaid Tales' ideology who believes women should be subservient to men.

Not to mention under say Obama he didn't cater to the evangelicals like Trump is doing.

Quote:
8. Corporate power protected
Most americans are invested in the stock market.
Actually they are not and that's not the point being made. Trump and his team have massively cut taxes, eliminated regulations so now huge corporations can do whatever they like without consequence. Drill on Indian owned land, on national park sites..

Even the Covid rescue package Trump tried to get most of the money for corporations until the Dems stopped him.

Quote:
9. Labor power suppressed
Not sure what you mean by this? Are you a marxist?
Its clear what is means.

Worker rights and power.

Are they weaker or stronger under Trump? Clearly weaker given corporations have all the power now.

Quote:
10. Disdain for intellectual and the arts
Hmm, I think the people smashing up national monuments tick that box
What national monuments?

We are talking Trump here who goes out of his way to ignore science and actually destroy it given he put Pruitt in environment.


Quote:
11. Obsession with crime and punishment
The police in democrat run states are literally not enforcing the law. People's businesses and homes are being wrecked.
Completely false but again not point being made.

Why are police being heavy handed on peaceful protesters to begin with. The police didn't deal with those anti lock down supporters like they did BLM initially.

Quote:
12. Rampant cronyism and corruption
Any proof? Please take a look at Hunter Biden.
Biden is a hugely qualified businessman with degrees from the top ivy league schools in the world. At no point did Hunter Biden get top job in the US government..

On flipside Ivanka and Kushner have zero experience yet both are in top jobs in white House...illegal btw.

Kusher is arguably #2 guy in the White House right now.

Last edited by rossie1977; 26-09-2020 at 18:13.
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26-09-2020, 20:37   #6716
Manic Moran
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Originally Posted by everlast75 View Post
This is something Trump and his entourage benefit from.

They are full of absolute BS. Trump can say something and when he is called on it, excuse it away as hyperbole.

He got Daniel's defamation case dismissed on that basis.

Corsi wasn't pursued as he is all over the place.

Carlson got McDougal's case struck out. On what basis? That people understand and expect bo**ox from him.
https://twitter.com/businessinsider/...918741510?s=19

Think about that. Carlson got away with it because people should not believe his show.

Fox news everybody.
Reminds me of the case a few months back where Rachel Maddow won her case on the grounds In the words of the judge, “a reasonable factfinder could only conclude that the statement was one of opinion not fact“.

Unfortunately, as we all know, much of the “news” sources are anything but and are just opinion platforms.
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26-09-2020, 20:44   #6717
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Pretty sure the Maddow one was quite different from memory?

I'll look into it.

Edit: the broader point is fine. The opinion shows on these mainstream media channels are just that. The news shows are supposed to be different obviously.

What seems to be a problem is that too many of the public don't understand they are opinion shows and too many of the opinion shows are happy to pass themselves off as news shows.

Last edited by StringerBell; 26-09-2020 at 20:48.
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26-09-2020, 22:45   #6718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Moran View Post
Reminds me of the case a few months back where Rachel Maddow won her case on the grounds In the words of the judge, “a reasonable factfinder could only conclude that the statement was one of opinion not fact“.

Unfortunately, as we all know, much of the “news” sources are anything but and are just opinion platforms.
"A federal judge on Friday dismissed a lawsuit filed against Rachel Maddow, finding she did not defame One America News when she said it was “Russian propaganda.”

Herring Networks, the parent company of OAN, claimed that Maddow had defamed the company in July 2019, when she discussed a Daily Beast article reporting that an OAN contributor was also on the payroll of Sputnik, a Kremlin-backed news site.

Maddow said OAN “really literally is paid Russian propaganda.” Herring Networks alleged that she made a false statement, in that OAN is not paid by the Russian government.

In dismissing the suit on Friday, U.S. Judge Cynthia Bashant ruled that Maddow was giving her opinion based on an accurate summation of the article."

Vs

"U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil of the Southern District of New York sided with the network in finding that Carlson's statements were "nonactionable hyperbole," and that the "general tenor" of his show should make it clear that he was not "stating actual facts" or accusing McDougal of a crime."

There's a difference.
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26-09-2020, 23:08   #6719
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Originally Posted by Brussels Sprout View Post
It's quite telling that after Trump's comments about being unwilling to commit to a transfer of power, several Republicans have come out with the line "We will abide with whatever the courts decide" rather than the traditional "We will abide with whatever the people decide".

It's quite likely that Trump will be ahead on election night given that more Democrats than Republicans appear to be going for mail-in options. As the days proceed and those mail-in votes are counted, more and more states will tip in the favour of Biden. The nightmare scenario for him is where it all hinges one 1 state, for example Pennsylvania, and the Republicans go to the courts to stop the counting for some reason. Given the upcoming appointment of ACB, Biden really does not want to be in a Gore v Bush scenario with the makeup of that Supreme Court.

The only way to avoid it is for him to win comprehensively, ideally with the votes that are counted on election night.
Just a further example of how the Republican party slides more towards authoritarianism and away from being a democratic party. The other comment I hear a lot is when Republicans are asked will you support a peaceful transition of power? The response is to refuse to say yes but instead say "we will respect the results of a free and fair election. The answer to the question clearly should be yes. The Republican response is instead a subtle way of saying if we win yes if not no.
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27-09-2020, 15:22   #6720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everlast75 View Post
"A federal judge on Friday dismissed a lawsuit filed against Rachel Maddow, finding she did not defame One America News when she said it was “Russian propaganda.”

Herring Networks, the parent company of OAN, claimed that Maddow had defamed the company in July 2019, when she discussed a Daily Beast article reporting that an OAN contributor was also on the payroll of Sputnik, a Kremlin-backed news site.

Maddow said OAN “really literally is paid Russian propaganda.” Herring Networks alleged that she made a false statement, in that OAN is not paid by the Russian government.

In dismissing the suit on Friday, U.S. Judge Cynthia Bashant ruled that Maddow was giving her opinion based on an accurate summation of the article."

Vs

"U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil of the Southern District of New York sided with the network in finding that Carlson's statements were "nonactionable hyperbole," and that the "general tenor" of his show should make it clear that he was not "stating actual facts" or accusing McDougal of a crime."

There's a difference.
There is in what you quote, yes. I would suggest, however, as opposed to just taking soundbites as identified by news reports which unsurprisingly are not word-for-word identical, actually reading what the judges wrote. (Why do I occasionally feel like I'm the only person to actually take the time dig into court opinions and legislation on this board as opposed to taking news articles on their shallow faces?)

Both cases revolve around the use of terminology which on its face is factually incorrect, most specifically in the Carlson case "a classic case of extortion", and in the Maddow case, "literally paid Russian propoganda". In both cases, the court distinguishes between the relating of the basic facts framing the discussion which in both cases are true and are preceding the offending phrases, and the opinion commentary which accompanied it both of which use phrases which are being claimed to be factual, incorrect statements. Both judges specifically define the verbiage as hyperbole which people are not to be taking as fact, and both cite in common some cases as precedent to follow.

Here's the Carlson one.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ox-Opinion.pdf

"But there can be no doubt that Mr. Carlson did so as hyperbole to promote debate on a matter of public concern. As a result, the Court concludes that Mr. Carlson’s statements viewed in context are not factual representations and, therefore, cannot give rise to a claim for defamation"

Here's the Maddow one.
https://timesofsandiego.com/wp-conte...OW-DISMISS.pdf

A hyperbole is an exaggeration especially “to an excessive degree” or “a manner of speaking that depicts something as being much bigger, smaller, worse, etc. than it really is.” HYPERBOLE, Black’s Law Dictionary (11th ed. 2019). Hyperbolic statements are not actionable because the listener knows that he or she should not accept the statements as fact

In sum, when the total context surrounding Maddow’s comment is considered, the Court finds that the context weighs towards a finding that the statement constitutes opinion and rhetorical hyperbole protected under the First Amendment."


...by way of one obvious example of similarity.
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