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View Poll Results: What do you believe happens when we die
We simply cease to exist (like before we were born) 463 79.55%
We go to heaven for eternal life 33 5.67%
We keep reincarnating 32 5.50%
We stay around the earth as ghosts 6 1.03%
Other 48 8.25%
Voters: 582. You may not vote on this poll

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18-09-2020, 00:29   #286
10000maniacs
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Originally Posted by LessOutragePlz View Post
How would we know that we alive if we had not once been dead?

We aren't born so we don't die.

Energy can't be destroyed so the energy inside must live on once our body dies.
And it warms up the coffin for a day or so. The worms enjoy our remains, and that is it.
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18-09-2020, 00:32   #287
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It came into existence through our mind and our perception of ourselves.
...and when the percolation of oxygen and nutrients through the brain which brought that mind and that perception into being stops, what then?
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18-09-2020, 00:39   #288
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Originally Posted by LessOutragePlz View Post
Just answering the question the thread asked not trying to convince anyone that I'm right and their wrong just giving my perspective on it.
The factor here is your perspective. If your perspective only revolves on your belief then you have to provide evidence that your belief is founded.
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18-09-2020, 08:10   #289
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The factor here is your perspective. If your perspective only revolves on your belief then you have to provide evidence that your belief is founded.
Have a look at Mooji on YouTube as he points towards this and he could explain it better than I could it's a spiritual belief rather than a religious one.
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18-09-2020, 08:12   #290
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That quote gets at what I was saying earlier, about some people finding what they feel is comfort from the idea of nothingness and a definitive end.
I am not sure how useful an observation that is in isolation however. Because likely you get just as much comfort in your beliefs about an after life as another person might from no after life.

Their comfort in isolation is not interesting therefore.

More interesting would be whether a person believes something BECAUSE it brings them comfort.... or whether they believe that something and incidentally the belief also brings them comfort.

For me it is the latter. I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that consciousness survives the death of the brain. Simply none. Certainly none on this thread. So I do not believe in an after life.

That fact is one I am happy about, as the idea of an eternal afterlife is an awful one. The idea of one ruled by a dictator, even a supposed benign dictator, is monumentally worse.

But my relief that there is no after life has absolutely no impact on my lack of belief in an afterlife. I do not lack that belief because of the comfort or relief it brings.

I am not sure how the break down between theists and atheists is in this regard. But my years of talking to both camps tells me that belief because of comfort, rather than evidence or lack of evidence, is a trait I find significantly and massively more often in theists.

One speaker, I think it was Sam Harris, said that in all his public touring debating religious topics.... that defence of religion seemed to fall into three general groups and rarely fell outside it. They were essentially:

1) Argument that the belief/religion itself was true. (the rarest)
2) Ignoring the topic and arguing that atheist is dangerous or damaging.
3) Arguing some narrative that religion brings comfort or happiness, regardless of whether true or not.

And my experience is much in line with his on both the topic of the existence of god, and in the concept of an after life.
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18-09-2020, 08:13   #291
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...and when the percolation of oxygen and nutrients through the brain which brought that mind and that perception into being stops, what then?
Our consciousness continues to live so death isn't the end for it, our brain and body dies but our consciousness manifested into our bodies to make this very discovery. Like I've said before I'm not talking about the scientific definition of consciousness rather a spiritual one.
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18-09-2020, 16:16   #292
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Have a look at Mooji on YouTube as he points towards this and he could explain it better than I could it's a spiritual belief rather than a religious one.
Spirituality is even worse nonsense than religion. At least we know religions exist! Nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily define 'spirituality' never mind demonstrate its existence.

Last edited by Hotblack Desiato; 18-09-2020 at 16:42.
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18-09-2020, 16:40   #293
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Our consciousness continues to live
How?
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18-09-2020, 18:30   #294
LessOutragePlz
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How?
I can't explain that to you as I'm only beginning my own journey into answering that question myself.

You need to find the answer to that question yourself .I certainly don't claim to have all the answers nor encourage anyone to follow my path as each person must find their own way to know the true self. This true self is free from our identity of ourselves and our ego that we have been conditioned to believe.

Last edited by LessOutragePlz; 18-09-2020 at 18:41.
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18-09-2020, 18:34   #295
LessOutragePlz
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Spirituality is even worse nonsense than religion. At least we know religions exist! Nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily define 'spirituality' never mind demonstrate its existence.
That's fair enough but I believe that not everything in this world can be defined and explained and you can either reject or accept that concept.

What you call nonsense others call home as spirituality brings people home to their true selves not the person or body that we believe ourselves to be spirituality helps us discover our inner most being.
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18-09-2020, 21:19   #296
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Like I've said before I'm not talking about the scientific definition of consciousness rather a spiritual one.
What's the difference between a "scientific definition" and a "spiritual one"?
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18-09-2020, 22:43   #297
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Originally Posted by nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I am not sure how useful an observation that is in isolation however. Because likely you get just as much comfort in your beliefs about an after life as another person might from no after life.

Their comfort in isolation is not interesting therefore.

More interesting would be whether a person believes something BECAUSE it brings them comfort.... or whether they believe that something and incidentally the belief also brings them comfort.

For me it is the latter. I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that consciousness survives the death of the brain. Simply none. Certainly none on this thread. So I do not believe in an after life.

That fact is one I am happy about, as the idea of an eternal afterlife is an awful one. The idea of one ruled by a dictator, even a supposed benign dictator, is monumentally worse.

But my relief that there is no after life has absolutely no impact on my lack of belief in an afterlife. I do not lack that belief because of the comfort or relief it brings.

I am not sure how the break down between theists and atheists is in this regard. But my years of talking to both camps tells me that belief because of comfort, rather than evidence or lack of evidence, is a trait I find significantly and massively more often in theists.
You see no evidence that consciousness survives death of the brain. You believe, presumably, that consciousness resides in the brain.

You believe. Based on evidence which you find convincing to you. You're am evidence based believer - that belief producing atheism.

-

Your conclusion about theists rests on your decision as to what constitutes evidence. They may not lack evidence whilst lacking what YOU hold to be evidence.

You get to be judge and jury as to what evidence is. And to no great surprise, figure yourself on firm ground and those with a conflicting view, not.

-

You speak about evidence in something of a Royal We fashion. Claiming ground no one (but like minds) has granted you.
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19-09-2020, 08:25   #298
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You see no evidence that consciousness survives death of the brain. You believe, presumably, that consciousness resides in the brain.
My position is that all the evidence we have so far.... not most of it but all of it..... links consciousness to the brain. None of the evidence we have so far.... not some of it but none of it.... shows any disconnect or possibility of disconnect between the two.

So it is not what I "believe" that is relevant here. It is what the evidence thus far suggests to me. And it suggests one thing only, and not the other at all.

The rest of your narrative about me..... your usual MO of talking about me rather than ever substantiating your own positions.... is irrelevant therefore. If you have evidence or access to evidence you think I am not considering.... then by all means present it here.
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19-09-2020, 15:19   #299
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My position is that all the evidence we have so far.... not most of it but all of it..... links consciousness to the brain. None of the evidence we have so far.... not some of it but none of it.... shows any disconnect or possibility of disconnect between the two.

So it is not what I "believe" that is relevant here. It is what the evidence thus far suggests to me. And it suggests one thing only, and not the other at all.

The rest of your narrative about me..... your usual MO of talking about me rather than ever substantiating your own positions.... is irrelevant therefore. If you have evidence or access to evidence you think I am not considering.... then by all means present it here.
Who's 'we' if not the Royal We I referred to? And aren't you making some assumptions based on some or other philosophy of knowledge when it comes to what constitutes evidence?*

Since the philosophy you employ rests on your believing it to be correct, doesn't all rest on a belief?


*for those inclined to reach for dictionary definitions, spare me. Such definitions rest on philosophies. Commonly accepted philosophies granted (even by me up to a point) but only philosophies.
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19-09-2020, 18:20   #300
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Our consciousness continues to live so death isn't the end for it, our brain and body dies but our consciousness manifested into our bodies to make this very discovery. Like I've said before I'm not talking about the scientific definition of consciousness rather a spiritual one.
What does that mean? What is a spiritual definition of consciousness?
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